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Mission 5. JSOW shutted down by sa-10.


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Hi. How it's supposed to pass this mission. I launch the 3 JSOW to 4, 5 and 6 WP as planned but the SA-10 always shut down the big and slow boms. Thanks in advance.

 

HI MRamon

 

You need to keep at least 40 miles ( can get away with 35 miles at a push) from the target any closer and they will go into red alert and shoot down all your missiles. See second item under TIPs in the "in game" briefing it is discussed there. So you need to keep high enough to get the range without going too close. This is the challenge of this mission.

 

Hope this helps.

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Hi. How it's supposed to pass this mission. I launch the 3 JSOW to 4, 5 and 6 WP as planned but the SA-10 always shut down the big and slow boms. Thanks in advance.

 

It was the most challenging mission for me, I succeeded by flying at Angels 40 to have max range on the JSOWs, drop the first 3 as soon as I was in range then immediately initiate a 180° turn then stayed about 50 miles away in orbit. Basically as soon as you are picked up by the "10" on your RWR, you flew too close and the site will target your JSOWs and destroy them. If you stay far enough (no "10" on RWR, approx. 35 miles minimum at Angels 40), the site will not activate and your JSOWs will hit. Same for the final target, I just updated WP6 using given coordinates, dropped on it and turned away.

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On 11/29/2020 at 3:22 PM, Qiou87 said:

 

It was the most challenging mission for me, I succeeded by flying at Angels 40 to have max range on the JSOWs, drop the first 3 as soon as I was in range then immediately initiate a 180° turn then stayed about 50 miles away in orbit. Basically as soon as you are picked up by the "10" on your RWR, you flew too close and the site will target your JSOWs and destroy them. If you stay far enough (no "10" on RWR, approx. 35 miles minimum at Angels 40), the site will not activate and your JSOWs will hit. Same for the final target, I just updated WP6 using given coordinates, dropped on it and turned away.

Thank you. Yes. I passed fliying over angels 38. Doesn't make too much sense to me since even that the radar dind't detect me, which is hard to believe, it detects certanly the jsows, so they can be shooted down.

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15 hours ago, Ala12Rv-Skyfire said:

Thank you. Yes. I passed fliying over angels 38. Doesn't make too much sense to me since even that the radar dind't detect me, which is hard to believe, it detects certanly the jsows, so they can be shooted down.

 Great to hear you completed the mission! I am no SAM/IADS expert, I guess the reasoning is, the site is "dormant" as long as it doesn't detect a big aircraft. JSOWs probably have a small RCS and wouldn't pop up in this state, but as soon as the site becomes active/on alert, it is able to detect them. This is ED programming, not really Badger's fault.

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  • 5 months later...

Is there a trick on how to reach angels 40?

 

The higher I get the slower the Hornet becomes, I can barely hold 130 knots on full afterburner getting close to angels 35.

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31 minutes ago, Migo said:

Is there a trick on how to reach angels 40?

 

The higher I get the slower the Hornet becomes, I can barely hold 130 knots on full afterburner getting close to angels 35.

No trick. Use a progressive accent / Keep height in mind when dealing with bogies prior / you only have to get high enough  to release JSOW without going into radius from target as set out in brief.

Control and situational awareness is part of this missions challenge.

Badger633

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  • 2 months later...

My last JSOW was shot down by SAMs at the last target even though I released it behind the 40 mile limit. 
 

This is just a bad idea for a mission. JSOWs in DCS are pretty useless. It would be best for the campaign to add a skip feature so it can be bypassed. 

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24 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

My last JSOW was shot down by SAMs at the last target even though I released it behind the 40 mile limit. 
 

This is just a bad idea for a mission. JSOWs in DCS are pretty useless. It would be best for the campaign to add a skip feature so it can be bypassed. 

I checked the mission today in the current open beta for another reason. Worked fine. You must have drifted in the zone at some point. It doesn’t matter what distance you release at if you have already entered the zone at any time the SAMs will go into red alert. Once in red alert they will shoot the JSOWs down. Keep out of the zone and they will not go into red alert.

 

At one time when the campaign was first produced the JSOWs would not get shot down. As a result of ED updates they do indeed get shot down when attacking active SAMs. This is why the mission was adapted so they will not go into red alert as long as you keep your distance at all times as briefed. 

 

Hope this helps

Badger633

 


Edited by Badger633

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1 hour ago, Badger633 said:

You must have drifted in the zone at some point

I was probably 50 mi away at about FL40

you have too many silly limits and triggers and criteria in this campaign. I think this isn’t my cup of tea. I’m all up for realistic things like ROEs etc. but your criteria is gamey and hidden from the player. 
Another issue with this mission is fuel. I added a tank to the load-out (which you should include by default) Even with that I’m barely able to get to the targets climbing to 40,000’ with 4 JSOWs and after a big fight with the MiGs. Then the tanker is nowhere to be seen because your VR friendly strategy keeps it un-spawned. 

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6 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I was probably 50 mi away at about FL40

you have too many silly limits and triggers and criteria in this campaign. I think this isn’t my cup of tea. I’m all up for realistic things like ROEs etc. but your criteria is gamey and hidden from the player. 
Another issue with this mission is fuel. I added a tank to the load-out (which you should include by default) Even with that I’m barely able to get to the targets climbing to 40,000’ with 4 JSOWs and after a big fight with the MiGs. Then the tanker is nowhere to be seen because your VR friendly strategy keeps it un-spawned. 

All the criteria to complete the mission is set out in the brief including tips there is nothing hidden.
There is no need for an additional fuel tank if you carefully control fuel use as set out in the brief, in fact the additional weight may be part of the problem.

There is no height criteria. The brief is only a suggestion. The height you fly at is up to you but you need to fly high enough to be able to release your weapons but at the same time keep from going so close that you set the SAMs into red alert.  Flew it just now without any problems as low as 34000 feet and had all three JSOWs away by 42miles. (The SAMs activation trigger is actually at 32 miles)

A common mistake with this mission is to release the first weapon at a good distance but stray into the activation zone with the last. You can release them in more than one run if you want to keep your distance. To get the weapons away quickly ensure all JSOWs are set to TOO prior so it’s just a matter of target change and release.

The real challenge in this mission is one of fuel management and aircraft control, achieving the right balance between your height  speed and release of the weapons whilst keeping a safe distance from the target.

If you take on board the above you will have no problems.

Hope this helps.

Badger633

 

F/A-18C Campaigns : The Serpent’s Head / The Serpent’s Head 2

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I9 9900K @ 5.0Ghz / Gigabyte 2080ti water force extreme / 32 Gb RAM Corsair Dominator Platinum 3600 / 2Tb Samsung 970 Evoplus NVMe M.2 / Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas / Thrustmaster Pedals / Valve Index.

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4 hours ago, Badger633 said:

All the criteria to complete the mission is set out in the brief including tips there is nothing hidden.

The “activation zone” is secret and gamey. It seems to be greater than the 40 miles in the briefing. The idea of this “zone” is gamey and doesn’t seem to correspond to anything real world like a ground spike from the radar which the player can perceive. 

4 hours ago, Badger633 said:

The height you fly at is up to you but you need to fly high enough to be able to release your weapons but at the same time keep from going so close that you set the SAMs into red alert.

At FL40 I am barely able to get a single JSOW launched without straying into the gamey 40 mile zone. Literally by seconds. 

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4 hours ago, Badger633 said:

The SAMs activation trigger is actually at 32 miles

Ok so why does the briefing say 40? See you’re making up invisible arbitrary pass/fail gamey hoops for the player to jump through. 

4 hours ago, Badger633 said:

There is no need for an additional fuel tank if you carefully control fuel use as set out in the brief, in fact the additional weight may be part of the problem.

There’s no reason not to bring the tank. It’s empty and jettisoned by the time I reach WP3. 

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4 hours ago, Badger633 said:

The real challenge in this mission is

The “challenge” you’re trying to create is arcade-game style and not like what should be in a sim. If there are flight restrictions they should correspond to reality like a hard deck, no-fire zones, air corridors or national borders etc. And they should all be described in a kneeboard map. The weapons used here aren’t being employed realistically since I suppose a JSOW would need a coordinated SEAD strike to be effective. But the VR limits you’re planning around mean flights of one or two aircraft, apparently having the tanker spawned in is too much for VR to handle. In another campaign which is designed better, I have a wingman since in reality I don’t think there are any combat ops you’d fly alone, if I didn’t manage to destroy the target I can order my wingman to attack. You’re just making an arcade game of a single plane obeying gamey game stuff to pass the mission. And limiting it due to VR capability. 

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IIRC in this campaign in Mission 5 I would get to around 34-35k ft, and launch the JSOW as soon as I got the in range cue.

Immediately after launching I would circle around and time it to where I could launch the next JSOW after completing the circle.

I don't think I ever climbed above 35k ft. Hoping I am remembering it correctly - I have flown this campaign three times now.

 

It definitely is my favorite campaign so far. Am in the middle of The Persian Lion awaiting the fix for Mission 8 to drop.

I am still somewhat new to campaign flying with the Hornet and still learning, but so far the Serpent Head campaigns have been my absolute favorite, I have flown both 1 and 2 three times, not too awfully complex for me and thoroughly enjoying the Persian Lion so far.

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