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Su-33 vs F16 latest - like fish in a barrel, or Flankers in a barrel


ACME_WIdgets

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Is it just me in my Su-33/27, or has the F16 + 120C become almost impossible to shoot down - because I am ALWAYS getting shot down by them first.

Low approach, in the mountain valleys 400m off the deck, try to get around their flank, 90 degree jinks, constant chaff - and they always know exactly where I'm at and kill me with a single(?) SPAMRAAM-120C. Red AWACS looses them VERY easily at low altitude/mountain passes.

It is now so lop sided in favor of BluFor it's rediculous - for me. It's really not fun any more.

2 months ago I could be sneaky with my approach to their flank - no way today.

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       2021 = First year on DCS:
 

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Yea, its almost like flying ASL reduces your missile range by a factor of 4 compared to high altitude... seriously, stop valley sneaking. It simply doesnt work against half competent pilots. If it "worked" all it means is that you faced a low skill opponent, or a good player who simply lost SA. Nothing notable has changed over the past few months in regards to this. Its all fun and games until a Viper just shoots into your "sneaky" little valley from 50k and M1.5. No, the mountains arent big enough to hide you from a Viper at 50k. Get high, and get fast, its the only way you stand a remote chance vs AMRAAM carriers. The other option is to get REALLY good at notching, which is tough considering the RWR but definitely doable. Im in no way implying that an R-27ER is equal to a 120C at alt. It isnt. But flying low and "sneaky" makes your missile disparity about as big as you possibly could. I made some videos about Flanker tactics of supporting high and fast ERs and notching in this playlist:

I would also advise you check out this tacview replay from some fights we had vs the 51st PVO/100KIAP (pretty much the top flanker guys out there). They arent sneaking, they are getting high and fast, and it works pretty well:

Also I should add, get a wingman. It will really help as well.

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To be honest, not only is the F-16 superior, the era consistency means it also gets a 20 year head start on our latest REDFOR modules (of which all are simplified) as well as all their air defences (at least). I bet if we got an F-16 of a similar era there would be far less issues.

 

This isn't so much about balance, BLUFOR aircraft are probably always going to be superior for the Cold War, but REDFOR air defences are going to be superior to BLUFOR; it's more about keeping the era consistent, as at the moment it's a complete mess with very little comprehensive or consistent besides WWII...

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Yea, its almost like flying ASL reduces your missile range by a factor of 4 compared to high altitude... seriously, stop valley sneaking. It simply doesnt work against half competent pilots. If it "worked" all it means is that you faced a low skill opponent, or a good player who simply lost SA. Nothing notable has changed over the past few months in regards to this. Its all fun and games until a Viper just shoots into your "sneaky" little valley from 50k and M1.5. No, the mountains arent big enough to hide you from a Viper at 50k. Get high, and get fast, its the only way you stand a remote chance vs AMRAAM carriers. The other option is to get REALLY good at notching, which is tough considering the RWR but definitely doable. Im in no way implying that an R-27ER is equal to a 120C at alt. It isnt. But flying low and "sneaky" makes your missile disparity about as big as you possibly could. I made some videos about Flanker tactics of supporting high and fast ERs and notching in this playlist:

 

I agree with some of what you are saying. I'm trying not to wine (though I am...), as I want a solutions that's closer to working.

I'm not trying to argue, but:

- I didn't mention the very high and very fast routine, and yes I do that sometimes. But that only can be used for the first shot, the 27ERs are easily spoofed, and the ET is still usually out of range.

- I Should be able to hide in a valley if I'm shielded by a mountain 1k feet higher than me and I'm notching ~90 degrees to his radar and he's 40+ miles away. Radar cannot go through mountains.

- And a BluFor AWACS should also not see me from 100+ miles away if I'm notching in a valley, with a high mountain next to me.

 

+ And I'm nose cold most of the time, using the Data Link and EO, so as not to broadcast my relative position.

+ I did not mention in my first post that the RedFor AWACS are just terrible. I ask F4 for Boggies, seeing one about 80km in front of me on the data link, and the RedFor AWACS replies with a bogey 210km away. This happens all the time. I don't need the newest bogey, I need the closest bogey, reported.

--- Sorry for the rant ---

5600x, EVGA 3070 FTW, B550 Tomahawk, M.2 Samsung, 32GB CL16, AIO 240mm
VKB Gladiator Pro, Freetracker IR 3d printed, TM MkII HOTAS circa 1985 w/USB
Asus 27" 2560x1440 60fps (so constrain DCS to 60fps)    F-16, F-18
       2021 = First year on DCS:
 

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The mountain fighting is just wrong. You give all the keys for the enemy to engage you from the distance and as they please.

To get missile further you need higher speed and altitude to launch it, and if they can get the altitude, they can see behind the mountain.

And there you are at slow speed, at low altitude and incapable to perform tight maneuvers between mountains.

 

The problems are just that in multiplayer you don't have datalinks, the R-27 missile family is still borked as is the R-77, the radar and RWR functions are simplified and doesn't have all capabilities it should have etc.

 

The best tactics with Flanker are just high-speed/high-altitude launches, high maneuverability and just learning to use SPO-15 by estimating launches and crank them to obsoletion.

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Try practicing the following:

If there is only one hostile in the area and he/she is hot on you:

1. keep your radar off and EOS on and make sure you force them into a look-down situation

2. when the SPO (RWR) is 3/4 full, turn 80-100 degrees to one side and alternate your heading between those values (dispensing some chaff is also beneficial)

3. fly in such state for a while and then you can perform a "Split-S" maneuver, which will basically keep you abeam but you will now be traveling in another direction

4. keep your eyes on the RWR at all times

5. if you decide to engage, turn into the hostile and quickly lock 'em up and fire - then do an "F-pole"

 

What this does is:

1. in case you were shot at in TWS mode that ARH missile will have a hard time finding you

2. hostile's radar will have a hard time tracking you since you are notching all the time

3. gives you an element of surprise as the enemy is trying to find you and all of a sudden they are being engaged

 

Bottom line: try sneaking around and presenting your self as a difficult target - don't focus too much at shooting down the enemy. This will most certainly improve your skills and your situational awareness (SA). Soon you will find your self, shooting down more and more enemy aircraft.

 

Sneaking between the mountains should be a last ditch strategy, since it puts you in a really disadvantageous position.

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