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Dear DCS community,

 

after slowly approaching the age of 50 and having worked a lot for the last years (and therefore always had too little time to fly), in spring I fulfil myself a dream and get a motion platform. I had already been able to test it at the manufacturer's, and in combination with VR glasses it is the ultimate flying experience...

 

In preparation for this, I am now thinking about upgrading or replacing my somewhat outdated but still good PC with a new one.

 

Currently I have the following specifications:

 

MB: MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC

CPU: 7700k water cooled at 5.0 Ghz

GPU: GTX 1080TI

RAM: 32GB DDR4 3000Mhz

 

As far as the budget is concerned, I have some freedom to put together a completely new PC if necessary. Nevertheless, I want to be sensible with new investments, in other words, they should make sense. I am able to build up a PC completely by myself, but usually I do not have enough time to do detailed research to configure everything optimally. I know that with DCS the clock rate of the single core is one of the decisive factors. I'm already well on my way with overclocked 5.0 Ghz, but newer I9 processors could be clocked much higher.

 

The following variants are available to me (from low to high):

 

Variant 1:

PC remains as it is, only exchange to a RTX3080 (or comparable AMD model) as soon as available at reasonable prices.

 

Variant 2:

Like variant 1, but additionally upgraded to an I9-9900k processor.

 

Variant 3:

Completely new system as follows:

Mainboard: MSI Z490 Unify

CPU: I7-10700K / I7-10850K or I7-10900K (probably 10850K as best price-performance ratio)

GPU: RTX 3080

RAM: G.Skill RipJaws V DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-3600

 

 

I would like to improve my system as much as possible compared to the current setup. Now the question - with which of the above mentioned variants do I get the best performance for my money? Does it make sense to rebuild from scratch (variant 3), or does it make me only slightly better than in variant 1 or 2?

 

Last but not least, does an upgrade from 32GB to 64GB RAM with DCS still bring a noticeable increase in performance?

 

Thank you very much in advance for your feedback and support!

 

Cheers, MadMonty

Thermaltake Core V1 | MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon | Intel I7700K | EVGA GTX 1080 TI SC | 32 GB RAM DDR4-3000 | Corsair H90 | 250 & 500 GB Samsung Evo850 SSD | WIN 10 64bit Pro | TM Hotas Warthog | TM Pendular Rudder | Oculus Rift S

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I'm in the process of building a new PC for DCS as well I'm upgrading from a 6700k system. Everyone has their opinion about what the best hardware is, personally, I've been researching for a while and I'm going down the AMD route this time. Here's a link with some really useful information specific to hardware and DCS. I hope it helps.

 

http://jaytheskepticalengineer.com/fathering-and-hobbies/flight-simming/flight-simming-hardware-list/

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I would consider Ryzen 5000 series as their single core performance is higher than Intel's best chip meanwhile, even when you oc that Intel. Read some reviews to get the idea.

 

Variant-2 would also mean new motherboard, you cannot drop a 9900k into a Z270 board !

 

 

My pick today if I was you:

Gigabyte Aorus X570 Ultra or Master

Ryzen-9 5900X

32GB DDR4-3600 CL16

and a fast GPU

...a good cooler ( which you would need for any CPU, AMD or Intel )

Asus Z370-E - 8700K@5G_delidded - 32GB - 1080GTX-Ti EK-waterblock - 1x 960Evo 250GB - 3x Samsung 850/860Pro 256GB Raid-0 - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 2x Seagate 2TB - 32GB PageFile - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@4x180mm fans - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Win10Pro64 

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I would consider Ryzen 5000 series as their single core performance is higher than Intel's best chip meanwhile, even when you oc that Intel. Read some reviews to get the idea.

Good advice. I had only looked at the single core clock rates, where the Intel seems to be much faster. But if I read articles about the Cinebench Single Core Test, the Ryzen 5900X is much faster than the 10900K, despite the lower clock rate. Interesting!

 

 

Variant-2 would also mean new motherboard, you cannot drop a 9900k into a Z270 board !

At first I only paid attention to the socket, which is 1151 on both. Thanks for saving me this embarrassment.

 

Thermaltake Core V1 | MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon | Intel I7700K | EVGA GTX 1080 TI SC | 32 GB RAM DDR4-3000 | Corsair H90 | 250 & 500 GB Samsung Evo850 SSD | WIN 10 64bit Pro | TM Hotas Warthog | TM Pendular Rudder | Oculus Rift S

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Variant-2 would also mean new motherboard, you cannot drop a 9900k into a Z270 board !

 

Not necessarily.

 

All you need to run a 5000 SERIES is the right BIOS, I don't need a new board, in fact, I don't want a new board, I paid £99.99 for my MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX, it's by far the best motherboard I ever used in 20 years of building my own PCs, if you look at its specs, you'll understand, all it will miss after the BIOS update is CrossFire or SLI.

 

For the rest, AM4 Socket, support for DDR 4000/ 4133 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE), 128 GB RAM, Gen3(PCI_E1), Gen2(PCI_E4). How do I need a new board?

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

M-2000C. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. MiG-29 "Fulcrum". 

Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.

 

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Z270 is an Intel board.

 

If I was buying today:

 

( 5900X or 10850K ) + ( 6900XT or 3080Ti )

 

Depending on sales might flip me one way or the other on CPU.

 

Some waiting for video cards obviously.

 

Unfortunately Linux support on the 6000 AMD cards currently sucks so that might make me go RTX.

 

$0.02

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Ryzen 5000 CPU support for older AMD motherboards has begun rolling out ahead of schedule

 

By Paul Lilly 5 days ago

 

 

ASRock is first out of the gate, and Asus will follow suit in a couple of weeks.

 

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

M-2000C. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. MiG-29 "Fulcrum". 

Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.

 

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If I would have to build a PC today, I would go with a AMD 5000 (Probably the 5950X just because, but the 5700X is plenty) and pair it up with a 6800XT or 3080 (Whichever you can get).

In a month I would try to ge the 6900XT.

 

And I'm running a 10900k with a 3080. Just upgraded from a 6600K (@5GHz) (4 Months ago) and a 1080TI (Last Friday :music_whistling:).

 

While Intel can still rock higher Core Frequencies, the AMD is more efficient and can do everything quicker at a lower frequency. And I hate it :lol:.

Intel I9 10900k | MSI MEG Z490 Unify | Corsair Vengeance 32GB - 3600MHz | MSI RTX 3080 | TM Warthog & Hornet | VPC T-50 Base | TM TPR| Rift S & Reverb G2 |

PointCtrl | VRK

42VFG looking for pilots [EU]
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And I'm running a 10900k with a 3080. Just upgraded from a 6600K (@5GHz) (4 Months ago) and a 1080TI (Last Friday :music_whistling:).

 

The great thing about this forum is that there is an equal distribution of reasonable people (representing my conscience) and enthusiasts (representing my greed) :music_whistling:

 

Jim Keller (reasonable) is certainly right that an upgrade to a better graphics card will do a lot of good.

 

So the crucial question for you Gruman (enthusiast :smilewink:) is, what did your upgrade from a similar system like mine to a high-end 10900k + 3080 system do? Is it a giant step forward? Would the 3080 have done it on its own, or does the 10900k make a noticeable difference?

 

 

Thermaltake Core V1 | MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon | Intel I7700K | EVGA GTX 1080 TI SC | 32 GB RAM DDR4-3000 | Corsair H90 | 250 & 500 GB Samsung Evo850 SSD | WIN 10 64bit Pro | TM Hotas Warthog | TM Pendular Rudder | Oculus Rift S

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Well, it feels like its smoother now. But not 1'800.- smoother ;). Mostly upgraded to be ready for the arrival of the Reverb G2.

Since I hoped the Reverb G2 would arrive sooner, I didnt do any tweaking yet. Still running Stock speeds on the 10900K (Normal Boost to 4.9GHz with sometimes 5.1GHz on some cores).

  • Haha 1

Intel I9 10900k | MSI MEG Z490 Unify | Corsair Vengeance 32GB - 3600MHz | MSI RTX 3080 | TM Warthog & Hornet | VPC T-50 Base | TM TPR| Rift S & Reverb G2 |

PointCtrl | VRK

42VFG looking for pilots [EU]
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The biggest hurdle right now is not what to buy but what can you actually obtain. many many parts or only available on websites as pictures to glance at but no real stock to buy from and I do not think its going to get better with Xmas and Covid.

People buy like crazy for home office or home entertainment.... was looking for a 5900 today, sigh, no luck at all in germany.

Asus Z370-E - 8700K@5G_delidded - 32GB - 1080GTX-Ti EK-waterblock - 1x 960Evo 250GB - 3x Samsung 850/860Pro 256GB Raid-0 - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 2x Seagate 2TB - 32GB PageFile - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@4x180mm fans - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Win10Pro64 

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Just posted this in another thread and, in regards to the CPU, I feel it's likely valid here too:

 

The thing is, stock availability on the (ultra-hyped) Ryzen 5000s CPUs is pretty low, and close to none of those you'll find available are priced at MSRP (i.e, prices are inflated).

Similar situation to what is seen for Nvidia's RTX3000s and AMD's RX6800s new GPUS.

 

Intel's i7 10700KF (found at 355,00 Eur, when Ryzen 5 5600X costs 335,00 Eur, in my area) and the i9 10850K (found at 475,00 Eur, when Ryzen 7 5800X costs 490,00 Eur, in my area) are great purchases at this very moment, due to this.

Either can be paired really nicely with a MSI Z490 Tomahawk or Gigabyte Z490 VisionG, which are amazing motherboards under 190,00 Eur, and allow overclocking to 5.1+Ghz all core if you ever get so obsessed with most performance (already great in stock clocks).

 

It’s worth noting that the AMD Ryzen chips also benefit a lot more from faster, tighter timings (and far more expensive) RAM too. People need to stop touting this as if it's a benefit for AMD. It's not, it's a form of bottleneck.

The Intel chips can run at full speed with slower (more affordable) RAM, while AMD chips need expensive RAM to be able to perform at their best, which is definitely not a positive.

 

So, for example, with Intel, you can pair your i5/i7/i9 "K" chip on Z490 mobo with affordable and quality 3200Mhz CL16 memory (such as Crucial Ballistix, or T-Force DarkZ) and get some savings (maybe spent instead on a nicer cooler, or faster GPU) while getting a heck of performance for the buck, on a matured well proven platform.

 

Yes, Intel is old 14nm (++++++), yes it can run hot at times, and yes there'll be Intel's next lineup next March/April 2021 (still on Socket 1200) but, at the end of the day, and as with anything computer-related, the truth is that you just simply cannot buy into the future, there are always better stuff on the horizon. You want great processing power, available right now and at non-inflated prices, then that's where it's at if you consider all things in current global scenario, IMHO.

1934486534_LMtransparentDCSicons_hs_shdw-5_75pc.png.9c8c611c4d38c056af222a2071df6f01.png:pilotfly:
system specs:

Spoiler

Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 10700KF (all core OC 5.0GHz) | 32GB DDR4 (3466MHz CL16) | RX 5700XT 8GB (@ 2085/1820) | 256GB(OS) + 500GB SSDs | 1TB + 3TB HDDs | 650W PSU (Seasonic 80+Gold)
32'' 1080P 75Hz (IPS) | M-Audio USB + Samson SR850 |  T16000 stick + X52Pro throttle + TrackHat (w/OpenTrack)

 

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Fwiw, reading through many upgrade posts seems like you need to skip the 3080 and do the 3090 as it seems to be the Vram that is making the improvements in DCS anyway.

many of the 3080 threads with DCS seem meh....

i have my cash ready, just need to find one

I9 (5Ghz turbo)2080ti 64Gb 3200 ram. 3 drives. A sata 2tb storage and 2 M.2 drives. 1 is 1tb, 1 is 500gb.

Valve Index, Virpil t50 cm2 stick, t50 base and v3 throttle w mini stick. MFG crosswind pedals.

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Just posted this in another thread and, in regards to the CPU, I feel it's likely valid here too:

 

 

Good luck finding a i7 10700KF for the same price than a Ryzen 5 5600X in the UK. So valid, nope, and by a margin, and what really makes the difference is the overall cost of the AMD system, including motherboard and cooling.

 

CPU: i7 10700KF is slower at 1 Core and 2 Cores, which matters most for gaming, it's also slower 1, 2, 3, 4 Cores O.C, the only way it scores higher is when running in all Cores, its CPU Mark is lower, it runs hotter and has a higher TDP at 125W vs 65W, a difference of 48% which will translate into heat when it really matter. Which means that if you want to O.C it, you'll need more money to cool it than the Ryzen 5 5600X which I can run cooler than my Ryzen 5 3600X with an Artic Freezer 7X with a lower TDP as well, all in all the system will run cooler and leave me with 30W more power output available for a GPU upgrade with the same 750W PSU.

 

You can brag about how Intel is so much better, in real life it isn't, far from it, and when it comes to RAM, if you're not happy with DDR4 3200 16, you can run 3600 16 with the same results than with lower latency RAM, I already tested my 3200 16 at 3600 without any problem.

 

Motherboard: There is little in terms of specs that an MSI Z490 Tomahawk will do more than a B450 GAMING PLUS MAX at anything from £40 to £70 more, a brand new B450 GAMING PLUS MAX cost as little as £55, £44.99 lower than I paid for mine, that's £80 to £110 less than the MSI Z490 Tomahawk.

 

Then you keep talking about expensive RAM but you don't mention the support for the RAM in question and why it cost you up to 55% extra to get that, frankly, I'm happy I don't have to upgrade my Motherboard, specs for specs, for £99.99, it's way better value than an MSI Z490 Tomahawk.

 

In short you chose a niche, pull false data and conclude wrongly that the AMD processor is not as good when in fact it targets players with a lot more awareness than your average, those who look for best value for money, aren't bothered with 8 cores when they know that to play DCS they only need half that, knows that the gain for lower latency RAM at higher RAM speed is negligible and are not ready to upgrade PSU and cooler to run Intel for lower overall performances at higher cost.

 

In short, with what I know and the time I intend to use my system (after upgrade are completed), I wouldn't splash an extra £140 to £180 into a MSI Z490 Tomahawk, especially not an Intel for all the reason stated above, right now, after a free BIOS upgrade, I'll have a system able to run the CPU and GPU I plan to purchase at lower cost and without the trouble of seeing my growth potential limited because the whole thing needs more cooling and power.

 

Instead I'd wait until I get the BIOS and purchase a MSI B450M PRO-M2 MAX, because I don't need more than this and it has all the features I need to fit a Zen 3 and amd 6800xt without any performance penalty, including RAM, people might want a newer motherboard, that's their choice I won't try to dissuade them.

 

Don't argue with AMD users if you don't know what you're writing.

 

 

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

M-2000C. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. MiG-29 "Fulcrum". 

Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.

 

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bla...

 

I love your posts. It amuses me. :D

I think I've lost count of threads where you've praised your system and choices. Here's why you're deluded:

 

The MSI B450 Tomahawk might be one of the great B450 models, but it's stil a cheap 4-phase motherboard.

Great if you're on very strict budget system based on a 6 or 8 core Ryzen 3000 (may later be 5000). But upgrade path over that (for higher range Ryzen 12 core) is pretty sketchy.

Will it run a stock 3900X (or 5900X for that matter)? ...sure it can, but give it full wack with PBO and imediately VRMs go over 100ºC.

What do I know? I done that for friend's rendering system that supposedly was to be the most affordable possible. There goes the budget as we needed to swap it...

Tried instead on a good X570 motherboard (Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master = 190,00+ Eur) and the difference, from temps to performance, is day and night.

B350s and B450s were cheap from the start for a reason. Don't think you're on some sort of "affordable Ferrari" because it surely isn't.

 

Now, the MSI Z490 Tomahawk for 185,00 Eur. It has a quality VRM solution (12+ equivalent phase). It handles any Intel 10th series CPU, including the all mighty i9 10900K. With 10 cores and 20 threads. Overcloked. At 5.1+ Ghz. All core.

As good on 24/7 OC as some boards 2x its price. Worth every penny for those prefering Intel top-end without breaking the bank. Not even comparable to the AMD B450 budget version, different category altogheter, multiple clouds above.

 

 

Now on "bang for buck", here's an interesting scenario...

 

INTEL 6 CORES BACK IN 2017 = TOO MUCH MONEYYZZZ!!111

 

Intel i7 8700K (6c/12t) = 350,00 Eur

ASRock Z370 Extreme4 = 160,00 Eur

 

TOTAL= 510,00 Euros

 

Some chap out there must be laughing, as he/she knows how good it has been since its launch, still today.

.....8700K, three years later, rocking hard on gaming systems, and will still continue for quite some time. :) This was good investment.

 

 

INTEL 8 CORES IN 2020 = TOO HOT AND EXPENSIVE, NOT FASTER THAN 5600X!!11 (tut tut..)

 

Intel i7 10700KF (8c/16t) = 360,00 Eur

MSI Z490-A Pro = 145,00 Eur

 

TOTAL = 505,00 Euros

 

It's a beast in games. Couldn't be happier. CPU idles at 25ºC, gaming at 45ºC (max I've noticed).

Only time CPU goes hot (75ºC+) is on heavy stress tests (like LinpackXtreme), with turbo boost engaged on all cores. ...this is using a Scythe Fuma2 (a 60,00 Eur air cooler!).

Installation was a breeze, and not a single issue or BIOS update required. ....and no, haven't even overclocked it (later, yep).

 

 

AMD 6 CORES IN 2019+2020 = MOST AFFORDABLE SYSTEM AND UPGRADE!!!1111oneoneone

 

AMD Ryzen 3600 (6c/12t) = 220,00 Eur

MSI B450 Tomahawk = 115,00 Eur

+ upgrade to Ryzen 5600X (6c/12t) = 335,00 Eur (for a 15%~20% perf.uplift!)

 

TOTAL = 670,00 Euros

 

....what? More expensive in just two years time? No way, can't be! Ryzen 5 and B450 is a budget gaming system FTW!!

And that just to keep on rocking a budget motherboard? ...and investing on a chip upgrade that gives 15%~20% uplift only, over the older one released just over a year ago? :unsure:....okies...

...not so sure on the best, "smarter" deal in the end? :music_whistling:

 

 

BTW...

 

GeForce RTX 3080 : Ryzen 5 5600X OC 4.8GHz vs Core i7 10700K OC 5.1GHz vs Ryzen 7 3700X 4.4GHZ l 1080p

 

1934486534_LMtransparentDCSicons_hs_shdw-5_75pc.png.9c8c611c4d38c056af222a2071df6f01.png:pilotfly:
system specs:

Spoiler

Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 10700KF (all core OC 5.0GHz) | 32GB DDR4 (3466MHz CL16) | RX 5700XT 8GB (@ 2085/1820) | 256GB(OS) + 500GB SSDs | 1TB + 3TB HDDs | 650W PSU (Seasonic 80+Gold)
32'' 1080P 75Hz (IPS) | M-Audio USB + Samson SR850 |  T16000 stick + X52Pro throttle + TrackHat (w/OpenTrack)

 

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Fwiw, reading through many upgrade posts seems like you need to skip the 3080 and do the 3090 as it seems to be the Vram that is making the improvements in DCS anyway.

many of the 3080 threads with DCS seem meh....

i have my cash ready, just need to find one

 

If you can wait till the new year there will be a 3080Ti coming with 20 GB (rumours). It'll be a better value than the 3090 IMO. 6900XT (16GB) should be avail by then too IIRC. Both cards are rumoured to be around $1k USD.

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I love your posts. It amuses me. :D

Keep posting your B.S, you obviously never understood that you're taking about a different generation of Ryzen and even less comprehend what AMD stand for and it's not your biased, posh view of what players need to play DCS.

 

It's the second time you post this stupidity about the Intel processor despite being proven wrong in the first one. Give it a rest.

 

The MSI B450 Tomahawk might be one of the great B450 models, but it's stil a cheap 4-phase motherboard.

 

Sorry say again? Where did I mentioned the Tomahawk in my post apart for the MSI Z490? Official denomination is: B450-GAMING-PLUS-MAX.

 

I invite everyone to go to MSI website and compare their respective specs: AM4, support for DDR4 3466/ 4000/ 4133 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE), Dual Memory Channel, 4 DIMM Slots, 128 GB RAM, Gen2(PCI_E4), in short, you got everything you need to run Zen3 and the RX 6000 series once you've updated your BIOS.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450.../Specification

 

Now let's be clear here since you keep missing the point: The Ryzen 5 5600X doesn't need more than DDR4 3600 to get the best out of it and this board supports 4133, Zen 3 are a lot LESS RAM dependent than the previous generation, you're wrong about this in the first place, and as I pointed out with precise figure to make my point, for gaming it is also more performant than the Intel i7 10700KF you mentioned.

 

CPU: i7 10700KF is slower at 1 Core and 2 Cores, which matters most for gaming, it's also slower 1, 2, 3, 4 Cores O.C, the only way it scores higher is when running in all Cores, its CPU Mark is lower, it runs hotter and has a higher TDP at 125W vs 65W, a difference of 48% which will translate into heat when it really matter. Which means that if you want to O.C it, you'll need more money to cool it than the Ryzen 5 5600X which I can run cooler than my Ryzen 5 3600X with an Artic Freezer 7X with a lower TDP as well, all in all the system will run cooler and leave me with 30W more power output available for a GPU upgrade with the same 750W PSU.

 

Not clear enough? Do you want me to post this again? Your comparison is bogus, for DCS, the Ryzen 5 5600X even with my board will run the game faster than your posh solution, produce less heat and use less power. Debunk THIS.

 

Oh, I nearly forgot, MSI Z490 Tomahawk is a Socket 1200 motherboard.

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

M-2000C. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. MiG-29 "Fulcrum". 

Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.

 

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Keep posting your B.S, you obviously never understood that you're taking about a different generation of Ryzen and even less comprehend what AMD stand for and it's not your biased, posh view of what players need to play DCS.

 

It's the second time you post this stupidity about the Intel processor despite being proven wrong in the first one. Give it a rest.

 

 

 

Sorry say again? Where did I mentioned the Tomahawk in my post apart for the MSI Z490? Official denomination is: B450-GAMING-PLUS-MAX.

 

I invite everyone to go to MSI website and compare their respective specs: AM4, support for DDR4 3466/ 4000/ 4133 MHz (by A-XMP OC MODE), Dual Memory Channel, 4 DIMM Slots, 128 GB RAM, Gen2(PCI_E4), in short, you got everything you need to run Zen3 and the RX 6000 series once you've updated your BIOS.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B450.../Specification

 

Now let's be clear here since you keep missing the point: The Ryzen 5 5600X doesn't need more than DDR4 3600 to get the best out of it and this board supports 4133, Zen 3 are a lot LESS RAM dependent than the previous generation, you're wrong about this in the first place, and as I pointed out with precise figure to make my point, for gaming it is also more performant than the Intel i7 10700KF you mentioned.

 

 

 

Not clear enough? Do you want me to post this again? Your comparison is bogus, for DCS, the Ryzen 5 5600X even with my board will run the game faster than your posh solution, produce less heat and use less power. Debunk THIS.

 

Oh, I nearly forgot, MSI Z490 Tomahawk is a Socket 1200 motherboard.

 

tomato, tomato.... B450 Gaming Plus Max is a downgraded version of the B450 Tomahawk. ;)wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==​Still a cheap 4-phase VRM board.

...and you'll still have paid a LOT more (for two chips in less than two years) for similar results, instead of having invested better in the first place.

 

You seem to forget (on purpose?) that there's 10% to 25% difference advantage in CPU utilization in favor of the i7 10700K, for same (when not better) FPS. That's not a minor difference.

The R5 5600X is not "more performant" than the i7 10700K. It's a side/down-grade, at most.

 

Even against the Ryzen7 5800X, all reviewers who confronted all these chips favour the i7 10700K, as the better value. DEBUNK THIS

 

:pilotfly:

PS: I love a good discussion, and even some gest can be fun for both parts. But having different opinions and disagreements don't mean there's agressiveness and confrontation required (unless you're a troll?).

It's not the first, nor second, nor third time you do it >>>>> ignore list.

1934486534_LMtransparentDCSicons_hs_shdw-5_75pc.png.9c8c611c4d38c056af222a2071df6f01.png:pilotfly:
system specs:

Spoiler

Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 10700KF (all core OC 5.0GHz) | 32GB DDR4 (3466MHz CL16) | RX 5700XT 8GB (@ 2085/1820) | 256GB(OS) + 500GB SSDs | 1TB + 3TB HDDs | 650W PSU (Seasonic 80+Gold)
32'' 1080P 75Hz (IPS) | M-Audio USB + Samson SR850 |  T16000 stick + X52Pro throttle + TrackHat (w/OpenTrack)

 

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For those interested, here is an article on best RAM speed for your Ryzen 5 5600X should you make it your processor of choice, personally I already have roamed the AMD forums and the conclusion of the players there are clear, the DDR4 3600 L16 is their pick.

 

Best RAM for Ryzen 5 5600X Processor

 

https://www.thetechnoburst.com/best-ram-for-ryzen-5-5600x/

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

M-2000C. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. MiG-29 "Fulcrum". 

Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.

 

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tomato, tomato....

 

 

Blah again you completely miss the point. Who gives a damned if this board is a downgraded version of another one if it has the capability of running Zen 3 and the RX 6000 with 128GB of the fastest RAM it needs to be at 100% at a fraction of the cost?

 

FACTS:

 

You were WRONG on the performances of the Intel system based on the i7 10700KF and you keep failing proving my points wrong, reason is, you CANT, those are solid data and there is no way around them.

 

You were WRONG on the dependency of Zen3 on RAM speed, you obviously don't comprehend the Zen 3 architecture and the reasons why AMD made sure the Ryzen 5 5600X runs cooler at 65W vs 125W for your Intel processor.

 

You're WRONG in your assumption that someone needs more than a simple B450-GAMING-PLUS-MAX to run most games if not all faster than your Intel solution, people might want to upgrade and go for a more expensive one but there is no need for it, it's NOT a necessity, it is a choice.

 

So I'll say it again, even with my £99.99 board, DCS will run FASTER on my PC than on the solution you proposed based on the i7 10700KF, cooler, using less power and with plenty of growth potential on tap.

 

End of debate.

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

M-2000C. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. MiG-29 "Fulcrum". 

Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.

 

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Blah again you completely miss the point. Who gives a damned if this board is a downgraded version of another one if it has the capability of running Zen 3 and the RX 6000 with 128GB of the fastest RAM it needs to be at 100% at a fraction of the cost?

 

FACTS:

 

You were WRONG on the performances of the Intel system based on the i7 10700KF and you keep failing proving my points wrong, reason is, you CANT, those are solid data and there is no way around them.

 

You were WRONG on the dependency of Zen3 on RAM speed, you obviously don't comprehend the Zen 3 architecture and the reasons why AMD made sure the Ryzen 5 5600X runs cooler at 65W vs 125W for your Intel processor.

 

You're WRONG in your assumption that someone needs more than a simple B450-GAMING-PLUS-MAX to run most games if not all faster than your Intel solution, people might want to upgrade and go for a more expensive one but there is no need for it, it's NOT a necessity, it is a choice.

 

So I'll say it again, even with my £99.99 board, DCS will run FASTER on my PC than on the solution you proposed based on the i7 10700KF, cooler, using less power and with plenty of growth potential on tap.

 

End of debate.

 

 

So, again, like you did in that other thread, where bullying prevailed instead of productive arguments for the collective, you say that I miss the point?

Is it not you ignoring mine all the time, unable to discuss the points that I present to show where you got it wrong?

 

Please learn what a fact is. What you present are not facts, those are just your opinions and personal attacks.

Can you please show us a single piece of constructive argument backed up with evidence, instead of resorting to Ad Hominem and childish bullying tactics?

 

I've countered every single of your silly remarks, every single time, with clear explanations and examples, most times backed up with evidence. - you ignored that, instead resorted to bullying.

I've even ilustrated my points with videos from tech reviewers (agreeing on my points), even side-by-side comparative real-time gaming benchmarks from same system builder, to show that the differences in gaming performance are so small, may even slightly favor the i7 10700K for OC'ed systems. - you ignored it.

 

I examplified how your budget tactics on AMD upgrade example on cheap board (R5 3600 to R5 5600X on B450 mobo) are actually more expensive in the long run, that they aren't a positive by any means.

I've given clear and simple math examples to show that, matter of fact, you're far better off investing correctly in the first place, on a system that will be fast both at the moment and in the longer run, instead of incremental upgrades (like you're doing) which will certainly force higher costs at the end. - you ignored that and resorted to bullying.

 

You seem to take it personal, as offense. That's delusion, fanboyism. But the worst part is that you invent things that were not said.

 

I never said that there's a confirmed dependency on RAM speed+timings for Zen3 like there is with Zen2. What I said is that there is still more dependency than there is with Intel. Everybody knows by now that DDR4 3600Mhz CL16 is probably the best RAM choice for Zen3, and you seem to know it too. But seem to miss, hilariously so, that those are the speed+timing combos of the same exact expensive kits I was refering to (like samsung b-die ones) - that was my point! :)

 

I never said that you need more than a B450-GAMING-PLUS-MAX to run most games (with AMD). What I said is that you're constantly boasting about that cheap 4-phase board as if it's something special, when it's not even comparable to a Z490 Tomahawk (which you did, on your own initiative), a board regarded as phenomenal value, able to run the entire Intel 10th gen line-up (stock or OC) - something yours isn't able to do for its respective architecture. :no:

 

As for "DCS will run FASTER on my PC".... It seems reviewers note that when there's a difference between Zen3 and Intel 10th gen, it's so small with games that, on a fresh installation of Windows, side-by-side you can't tell the difference between them, unless you go strictly by the (small) numbers alone. :ermm: I said and reafirm that getting a 6-core instead of an 8-core, when the total system price difference is quite relative between them, is not good investment right now.

Most people going for a gaming rig this expensive already have a decent cooler and power supply, and if not they're able to step up, so the temperatures and power consumption don't seem to me enough of an argument to sway people towards the other camp.

 

My points still stand. If you don't agree with it, that's ok. I'm totally fine with that and accept it.

But what I can't stand is a bully and a troll. Learn to read and argue before participating in discussions like normal people do.

 

Ignore list indeed.

1934486534_LMtransparentDCSicons_hs_shdw-5_75pc.png.9c8c611c4d38c056af222a2071df6f01.png:pilotfly:
system specs:

Spoiler

Win10 Pro x64 | Intel i7 10700KF (all core OC 5.0GHz) | 32GB DDR4 (3466MHz CL16) | RX 5700XT 8GB (@ 2085/1820) | 256GB(OS) + 500GB SSDs | 1TB + 3TB HDDs | 650W PSU (Seasonic 80+Gold)
32'' 1080P 75Hz (IPS) | M-Audio USB + Samson SR850 |  T16000 stick + X52Pro throttle + TrackHat (w/OpenTrack)

 

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Thoughts:

- I have 64GBs of ram, and only ever see DCS exceed 32GB of use in multiplayer and if I'm hosting a server locally on the same PC. So right now, I'd stick with 32GB. Having said that, if I was building a new PC, I'd put 64GB in to future proof

- I'm currently not convinced that the existing CPUs are "that" much faster. IMO, just not enough to justify a new rig, at least right now

- The real big question is what will happen with the expected new/updated DCS game engine that we will hopefully get next year and will include Vulkan? I just don't think that we'll know until we've got it and it's had a few months to bed in. So we've no idea if it might make use of 16 cores, whether AMD or Intel will be best.

- The 3080 improvement is a known quantity

 

So my personal view is that you look at a 3080, then wait to see what happens with the new game engine before updating the PC base.

If you play mainly offline/solo, then have a look at hosting a server locally (just for you), which can offload some of the calculations from the core "player" game usage.

 

 

 

 

System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse.

Server: i5 2500@3.9Ghz, 1080, 24GB DDR3, SSD.

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Thoughts:

- I have 64GBs of ram, and only ever see DCS exceed 32GB of use in multiplayer and if I'm hosting a server locally on the same PC. So right now, I'd stick with 32GB. Having said that, if I was building a new PC, I'd put 64GB in to future proof

- I'm currently not convinced that the existing CPUs are "that" much faster. IMO, just not enough to justify a new rig, at least right now

- The real big question is what will happen with the expected new/updated DCS game engine that we will hopefully get next year and will include Vulkan? I just don't think that we'll know until we've got it and it's had a few months to bed in. So we've no idea if it might make use of 16 cores, whether AMD or Intel will be best.

- The 3080 improvement is a known quantity

 

So my personal view is that you look at a 3080, then wait to see what happens with the new game engine before updating the PC base.

If you play mainly offline/solo, then have a look at hosting a server locally (just for you), which can offload some of the calculations from the core "player" game usage.

 

 

 

 

They are faster.

 

Zen 3 processors are completely different in their architecture and does not react to RAM speed the same way than the previous generation, at the end of the day, what really matter is how well your RAM is bound to the processor, not really the amount of RAM, RAM speed above 3600 is not the solution, preferred solution among experienced AMD players are 3200 MHz CL14 O.Ced to 3600 or 3600 MHz CL16 for those who doesn't want to O.C, (edited) the 3200 O.Ced to 3600 can be more performant due to lower latency depending on quality.

 

The gain is sensible when it comes to CPU speed as well but actual benchmarks won't show you that because AMD haven't used the best combination of RAM speed/processor to get their data but according to an insider standard 3200MHz CL16, so doing one home work is advised before committing to a purchase. In short, using standard settings with unbound RAM won't work well regardless of the amount of RAM, optimizing your RAM from the time you pick it, will.

 

https://www.thetechnoburst.com/best-...ryzen-5-5600x/

 

https://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/146011-amd-unleashes-zen-3-reckons-faster-gaming-core-i9/

 

 

 

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

M-2000C. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. MiG-29 "Fulcrum". 

Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.

 

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For the users of the MSI B450, you have to know something. Only the MAX series will see their BIOS updated because they have a 32mb BIOS vs 12mb (by memory), once you've done that, your board will perform exactly the same way when it comes to support for the Zen3 and 6000 Series AMD GPUs.

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

M-2000C. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. MiG-29 "Fulcrum". 

Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.

 

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Thinder>

I didn’t say that they weren’t faster, I said “that much faster”.

A GPU upgrade to a 3080 from a 1080ti apparently gives approx 80% better frame rate.

I’d be surprised if he’d get more than a 25% improvement with a CPU upgrade, which would almost certainly result in a new full base unit, at 2-3 times the cost of a GPU. Hardly sensible maths.

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System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse.

Server: i5 2500@3.9Ghz, 1080, 24GB DDR3, SSD.

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