Those Glove Vanes...

[RustBelt]

Every time you bring up glove vanes, a puppy dies...

 

They aren’t “useless”, they just enhance turn rate in a flight regime that is rare. They do look cool, but not at the expense of cute, little puppies.

 

You got the glove vanes to extend by sweeping the wings aft using the throttle switch, then going to bomb mode.

 

Thing is, they DON'T look cool. They kill the lines of the swept back wing. They look like an afterthought.

 

And since, let's all be honest here, this whole thing is because Top Gun, and in the few ACTUAL plane shots of the Tomcat, you never see vanes, they aren't going to be on this module.

[Whiskey11]

Probably the only thing that's being asked for more often on these forums is VR performance. Compared to getting that it would probably be piece of cake to do

 

Sad F-14D noises.... :cry:

[captain_dalan]

100% there will be no glove vane related changes in the FM.

 

Maybe we will add them as eye candy only. But please understand: we don't need convincing why they look cool, or what version had them, and whatnot. We'll make up our minds considering a plethora of factors that need to be weighed when developing software. Even only visually they are not a small task. They cost manhours of work. Manhours that might be needed elsewhere. Or manhours that might not be available. Or manhours that just might. And that would still be only 1 factor.

 

Sometimes you need to trust a bit that we know what we are doing, too. And that we have to manage and balance more than just community wishes, although we always try to put these on top, if only possible. And yes, sometimes the outcome will not be to your liking. We're willing to try most of what makes you happy. In return we need your support most, when we sometimes have to make decisions that do not make you as happy as others. There will always be trade offs, that's just how reality is. Hence, let us wait and see. As you know us, you know that we will definitely always give it our best.

 

Amen. And please do make it a sticky! Not a week goes by without people bringing this up :(

[Jackjack171]

 

You must be new here :)

 

Naw, been here a while actually. The Tomcat and Hornet got me into DCS. I just find things funny and point them out no matter how many times I see it. It's good for a laugh!

[Jackjack171]

 

Thing is, they DON'T look cool. They kill the lines of the swept back wing. They look like an afterthought.

 

 

Now that's funny! I had a VF-32 patch that I got from an airshow when I was a kid (I'm sowing my age here) it had the Glove Vanes extended. It always looked odd to me as opposed to the later ones.

[NoJoe]

 

And since, let's all be honest here, this whole thing is because Top Gun, and in the few ACTUAL plane shots of the Tomcat, you never see vanes, they aren't going to be on this module.

 

Actually there is one turning shot where you can briefly see the vanes retracting. My wife and I were watching Top Gun the other day and I saw that out of the corner of my eye, so OF COURSE I had to pause and go back to see if that's actually what I was seeing. Surprised that it was! :) I'll have to see if I can find it again.

 

Anyway, not that this has any bearing on the discussion. IronMike's post nicely sums up the decision process.

 

 

[RustBelt]

Interesting.

 

Also Love that Avatar Picture. Too much GA is boring white. And a Caravan no less!

[Raisuli]

 

Thing is, they DON'T look cool. They kill the lines of the swept back wing. They look like an afterthought.

 

And since, let's all be honest here, this whole thing is because Top Gun, and in the few ACTUAL plane shots of the Tomcat, you never see vanes, they aren't going to be on this module.

 

I have quite a few pictures of VF-21s aircraft flying at the end of the '85 Westpac, which was their first deployment with the F-14. A couple are of a high-ish speed flyby with swept wings; 200 had glove vanes, 205 did not. On the whole I would have to agree the 'not' is more pleasing to the eye. They also looked brand new, mostly because they nearly were. With my 205mm lens you'd think they were showroom fresh.

 

<edit>

Decided to add a picture. Apologies for the grain; real day on a real ocean with real film shooting a fast object. 200 is forward inboard, 205 is aft outboard. Also might be worth noting I have a few shots of a 4-ship high-ish speed pass from VF-154, and none of them had glove vanes out.

 

[Nexus-6]

100% there will be no glove vane related changes in the FM.

 

Maybe we will add them as eye candy only. But please understand: we don't need convincing why they look cool, or what version had them, and whatnot. We'll make up our minds considering a plethora of factors that need to be weighed when developing software. Even only visually they are not a small task. They cost manhours of work. Manhours that might be needed elsewhere. Or manhours that might not be available. Or manhours that just might. And that would still be only 1 factor.

 

Sometimes you need to trust a bit that we know what we are doing, too. And that we have to manage and balance more than just community wishes, although we always try to put these on top, if only possible. And yes, sometimes the outcome will not be to your liking. We're willing to try most of what makes you happy. In return we need your support most, when we sometimes have to make decisions that do not make you as happy as others. There will always be trade offs, that's just how reality is. Hence, let us wait and see. As you know us, you know that we will definitely always give it our best.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I'd be willing to wager that the bulk of us are deliriously happy with our Tomcat modules and couldn't care less if the glove vanes are there or not.

[RaisedByWolves]

Would be awesome if we could get the F-14D and then glove vanes on the F-14A. Did I cover all of it?

[HAAUK]

i would love to see the glove vanes pop on shedule thou, even thou if it's purely comestic... its one of the unique things about the A cat

[Raisuli]

100% there will be no glove vane related changes in the FM.

<snip>

Even only visually they are not a small task. They cost manhours of work. Manhours that might be needed elsewhere.

<snip>

 

Key statements here.

 

If IronMike decided to make me CEO for a day I'd tell him not to waste time on the vanes. After 10 years in service very few were in use, and honestly how much time are you going to spend with wings swept staring back at those oh-so-lovely slabs?

 

Given the quality of Heatblur's work I'd rather see the time it took to do this invested elsewhere, in the Viggen, the F-14, or a follow-on product.

 

Just my opinion, meaningless as always.

 

 

[HAAUK]

 

Thing is, they DON'T look cool. They kill the lines of the swept back wing. They look like an afterthought.

 

And since, let's all be honest here, this whole thing is because Top Gun, and in the few ACTUAL plane shots of the Tomcat, you never see vanes, they aren't going to be on this module.

 

this is the thing i dont like about the community.. that;s really your opnion and you are in no position to declare that as a fact.

 

the glove vanes look cool to me and i want to see them (cosmetically) because in my opinion, they give the A cat here character.... sure i don;t mind waiting for it, heck it can even be the last thing they do before they stop work on the tomcat module and call it completed. Its got nothing to do with that execellent documentary

[Mr. Big.Biggs]

100% there will be no glove vane related changes in the FM.

 

Maybe we will add them as eye candy only. But please understand: we don't need convincing why they look cool, or what version had them, and whatnot. We'll make up our minds considering a plethora of factors that need to be weighed when developing software. Even only visually they are not a small task. They cost manhours of work. Manhours that might be needed elsewhere. Or manhours that might not be available. Or manhours that just might. And that would still be only 1 factor.

 

Sometimes you need to trust a bit that we know what we are doing, too. And that we have to manage and balance more than just community wishes, although we always try to put these on top, if only possible. And yes, sometimes the outcome will not be to your liking. We're willing to try most of what makes you happy. In return we need your support most, when we sometimes have to make decisions that do not make you as happy as others. There will always be trade offs, that's just how reality is. Hence, let us wait and see. As you know us, you know that we will definitely always give it our best.

 

You do of course realize that you just created 500 pages of posts about “when are the glove vanes that Iron mike promised in his November post” coming don’t you?

Ill start,

since Iron mike said while they are not changing the FM But may add them cosmetically, can we expect them in the next patch......

 

[IronMike]

 

You do of course realize that you just created 500 pages of posts about “when are the glove vanes that Iron mike promised in his November post” coming don’t you?

Ill start,

since Iron mike said while they are not changing the FM But may add them cosmetically, can we expect them in the next patch......

 

Two Weeks. :D

[LanceCriminal86]

I'd rather have Jester work like a real human RIO than have glove vanes, cosmetic or not.

 

I'd rather have TCS housings be swappable as an animation argument in the model than have glove vanes, for the A and B.

 

I'd rather have a D model TCS housing added in for AI D model usage than have glove vanes.

 

I'd rather have the USS Kennedy added than have Glove vanes.

 

I'd rather the UVW mapping and model inacuracies be done instead of glove vanes.

 

I could go on and on about things that would improve the Tomcat experience more from a functional perspective than adding non functional glove vanes. The late A model we have right now is supposed to be a contemporary to the 90s B models, at which point the vanes were permashut.

[Bremspropeller]

The late A model we have right now is supposed to be a contemporary to the 90s B models, at which point the vanes were permashut.

 

That doesn't apply to the A models yet to come.

 

I'm a simple man. I'd rather have GVs and time spent on a new aircraft, than all the features you wan't.

I guess we'll have to disagree on this one.

[shagrat]

 

 

Maybe we will add them as eye candy only.

I think that was the whole point of this discussion? ... because they look cool. ;)

 

[fat creason]

Just be aware that if these even get added cosmetically, it will be extremely low priority and will not be considered a blocker to leaving early access status.

[Jackjack171]

I'd rather have Jester work like a real human RIO than have glove vanes, cosmetic or not.

 

I'd rather have TCS housings be swappable as an animation argument in the model than have glove vanes, for the A and B.

 

I'd rather have a D model TCS housing added in for AI D model usage than have glove vanes.

 

I'd rather have the USS Kennedy added than have Glove vanes.

 

I'd rather the UVW mapping and model inacuracies be done instead of glove vanes.

 

I could go on and on about things that would improve the Tomcat experience more from a functional perspective than adding non functional glove vanes. The late A model we have right now is supposed to be a contemporary to the 90s B models, at which point the vanes were permashut.

 

That's an awesome list that I can get with!:thumbup:

[Harlikwin]

 

Maybe a cosmetic addition (or mod) where they don't actually do anything to the flight model would be the via media for the early models.

 

I am intrigued by anecdotes that some pilots were manually deploying them for subsonic maneuvers and damaging them.

 

Well, now that ive learned of a new way to break the plane and virtual mechanics and tax payers weep this feature is definately higher on my list of must haves.

[Eldur]

Just be aware that if these even get added cosmetically, it will be extremely low priority and will not be considered a blocker to leaving early access status.

 

After the Hornet Roadmap and RAZBAM's waterglass, we're ready for everything. That would be very minor however.

 

And while we're at it, I'd rather (what a language which lets you have a full sentence without an actual verb) the Tornado than all those wishlist items.

[Harlikwin]

So on semi serious note, how much performance did these actually add supersonic?

[Uxi]

Grumman very early on proposed deleting them but the fact that Navy wanted them points to supersonic intercepts so things like Outer Air Battle most likely. Most likely completely irrelevant without a Soviet style threat to the carriers.

 

Still... Grumman did incorporate the permanent deployed shape in the glove design for ST21, so there's something to it.

[Dannyvandelft]

Just be aware that if these even get added cosmetically, it will be extremely low priority and will not be considered a blocker to leaving early access status.

And here all I want is my pretty instrument lighting back from pre 2.5.6 ????

She used to look so beautiful at night on my Rift S, and now she looks like an Amsterdam brothel.

 

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