correct as-is Elevator Limitations

[[PTF]Ali]

Whenever i pull my joystick stick on BF-109 in game, it never pulls stick fully backward. There is some kind of lag in elevation movement of stick in game which doesn't happen for joystick in real life. If it is matter of actual physics of plane then will you consider to give us special option to disable this feature cause out of character you can pull the stick in real life with your joystick but in character in game you are not pulling the stick which making it virtual and artificial. Do you think there must be option on controls like stick limitation override in su27 and mig29, It will add more user experiences like takeoff assistance which is already there in special option etc.

[Jafferson]

You cant Pull this hard in real life, BF109 have no hydraulics. Its to much drag for moving further.

[grafspee]

Mig-29 and su-27 has artificial stick limitations, to prevent damaging airframe, from pulling too much G, negative and positive included.

Bf-109 has no a such thing, it is simple matter of pilot ability to pull stick back. Stick forces in Bf-109 are high compare even to Fw-190. And you cant turn it off  

[amazingme]

Then you don't understand what push-pull rods and cable-pulley systems work. The fact that, in DCS, the stick forces on the K-4 are so high at low speeds contradicts the physics itself. In DCS you have to use a LOT of elevator trimming in order to be able to have any elevator authority even at speeds as low as 350km/h IAS. In all the literature that refers to the 109's 'high stick forces', the pilots that flew it in real life, they all say that those forces become an issue after 700 km/h IAS. And there's a good reason for that.. at those Mach numbers, the air becomes a wall, for all aircrafts, not only for the 109.

Edited May 4, 2021 by amazingme

[grafspee]

ED took data from G-2 tests, so for some 109s models stick forces were just like in K-4 right now.

In P-51 i do pulls up to 10G more often i loose wing then black out.

I think ED should consider implementing some kind of more realistic, pilot G resistance / exhaustion simulation especially for WW2 pilots, for now i have feeling that WW2 pilots has modern G suits put on them. Which would punish players who uses ridiculous rapid high G applies negative and positive to avoid other planes, i haven't seen anything like this on a single gun cams available on YT.

Edited May 5, 2021 by grafspee

[amazingme]

 The rods and pulleys were very much improved form G to K models. The problem is with the extrapolations used by ED, which do introduce errors in calculation, statistically speaking, and also not taking into consideration these improvements. These stick forces @ low speeds are quite exaggerated.

 

 Pilot stamina should or must be introduced, especially for WWII drivers, definitely.

[Fri13]

1 hour ago, grafspee said:

I think ED should consider implementing some kind of more realistic, pilot G resistance / exhaustion simulation especially for WW2 pilots, for now i have feeling that WW2 pilots has modern G suits put on them. Which would punish players who uses ridiculous rapid high G applies negative and positive to avoid other planes, i haven't seen anything like this on a single gun cams available on YT.

 

IMHO the ED has some problems with the input systems reaction speeds and forces across all modules. It is even more so for the WW2 where even slight movement (with 40 cm extension) can result fast responses. Never flown a WW2 era fighter but it just feels odd that these would be so sensitive that you just move stick around the tenth of the full stick movement range and be able perform crazy moves. And then there is always these pilot G effect problem that allows players to do these crazy negative G moves and high G pulls and just maintain excellent vision and look around capabilities. 

 

It is like questioning that why in the historic videos the pilots are flying so steady and "predictable" manner when in DCS you can just yank your aircraft around and pull crazy amount to avoid being shot. It is the constant feeling how everything is so "digital" and has such reaction as well. 

 

The G forces effect needs to be redone so that we can get the proper forces for pilot to be the consideration how to fly. 

[Yo-Yo]

7 hours ago, grafspee said:

ED took data from G-2 tests, so for some 109s models stick forces were just like in K-4 right now.

In P-51 i do pulls up to 10G more often i loose wing then black out.

I think ED should consider implementing some kind of more realistic, pilot G resistance / exhaustion simulation especially for WW2 pilots, for now i have feeling that WW2 pilots has modern G suits put on them. Which would punish players who uses ridiculous rapid high G applies negative and positive to avoid other planes, i haven't seen anything like this on a single gun cams available on YT.

 

The point is that pilot G-effects have about 1 s of zero effect that corresponds real things - you always have O2 stores either in eyes or in brain. Pulling gently you will get the feedback, but if you perform very rapidly you really can say good by to your wings before you have any clues of g. I really wonder, why folks never watch the angular velocity due to pulling - it works.

 

[NineLine]

7 hours ago, grafspee said:

ED took data from G-2 tests, so for some 109s models stick forces were just like in K-4 right now.

In P-51 i do pulls up to 10G more often i loose wing then black out.

I think ED should consider implementing some kind of more realistic, pilot G resistance / exhaustion simulation especially for WW2 pilots, for now i have feeling that WW2 pilots has modern G suits put on them. Which would punish players who uses ridiculous rapid high G applies negative and positive to avoid other planes, i haven't seen anything like this on a single gun cams available on YT.

 

If you ever have one, can you send me a track of these moves people are using?