reported JSOW-A Turning and missing targets.

[Bunny Clark]

I'm finding that frequently JSOW-As will make a hard turn in front of the target and fail to detonate.

 

In the attached track both JSOWs that are launched first make a hard right and don't detonate. In the second run it looks like one JSOW functions correctly, but not the other.

 

This is on Open Beta. They work fine in Stable.

JSOWA Test.trk

[Tippis]

Seeing the same, and my very limited testing suggests that it might be a matter of range, or perhaps just flight time. I haven't read the fine print of any recent patch notes, but could it be a case of their implementing a battery life time and dropping from too far off or high up means the battery runs out before it reaches the target?

 

e: Some further testing suggest perhaps not that so much as just a safety timer: if the JSOW hasn't entered its terminal phase after 60-65s, it will start swerving to avoid the target area. Sometimes, thou, especially if it's just on the edge of its supposed flight range, it will actually still have enough energy to get to where it is going, and it will realise this half-way through the abort turn at which point it tries to go back on target. Sometimes it manages; sometimes it's too late and it just goes inert and hits the ground.

 

So it's perhaps more likely that this is an effect of the updated terminal guidance logic for INS weapons, but again, there's no mention of that outside of the JDAMs and no description of this kind of limitation.

 

[Bearfoot]

I too find JSOW A's extremely unreliable (OB). Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Not sure if it is my switchology/,echaniszation.

 

This thread:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/digital-combat-simulator/dcs-f-a-18c-hornet/bugs-aa/7112978-need-track-replay-agm-154-jsow-always-off-target-or-simply-disappears/page2

 

suggests that it might be range issue. @Bunny Clark perhaps it would be worth seeing if you can consistently get failures when > 25nm and successes when less?

[BIGNEWY]

Thank you for the track Bunny,

 

In your track I see the issue, when I try to reproduce all is ok.

 

I would recommend trying again and actually going to the MSN page when in TOO mode to confirm the coordinates have entered correctly from the WPDSG selection.

 

see if that helps, I am going to try again

Edited November 17, 2020 by BIGNEWY

[Tippis]

Thank you for the track Bunny,

 

In your track I see the issue, when I try to reproduce all is ok.

 

I would recommend trying again and actually going to the MSN page when in TOO mode to confirm the coordinates have entered correctly from the WPDSG selection.

 

see if that helps, I am going to try again

 

Maybe this should be merged with the thread Bearfoot posted. That said, though, one thing (well… another thing) I noticed when I first came across this issue was a detail was also mentioned in that other thread: the target elevation listed in the TOO page does not correspond to the elevation indicated by the TGP. I'll see if I can set up that initial condition again, where there was a 500' discrepancy between the two (the track I started preparing only has 10–20'), but in the meantime, it might be something to double-check in the track the OP posted compared to when you tried to replicate it. I don't know if one of the two is simply wrong or if the parameters aren't being transferred properly but there is a difference that might be part of the problem.

 

However, in spite of this, the JSOW will happily guide towards the target and overfly it properly if the range is low enough. So there's some really odd combination of factors going on here: half-incorrect position (that still works just fine anyway… sometimes), half-incorrect range calculations (that still will make the missile hit… sometimes), and weird terminal guidance manoeuvres (that will make the missile miss… sometimes).

[BIGNEWY]

Reproduced and reported

 

thank you all.

[we3ks]

Point up front: I think this may be related to a correlation between employment altitude / range.  I am finding that if you employ at a range in nm greater than your altitude, then the JSOW-A will hit the target; otherwise the missile will miss.  For example, when employing at greater than 40 nm from the target and at an altitude of 40k ft, the missile will impact.   

 

Background: I have been running simple scenarios in an effort to establish JSOW-A engagement timelines (i.e. altitudes / ranges / time-of-flight) against a known location in order to incorporate other munitions (based on their engagement ranges) like HARM into a strike package.  My experimentation matrix tested three different altitudes (40k' / 35k' / 30k' MSL) at three different airspeeds (1.0 / 0.9 / 0.8 Mach) and employing the JSOW-A at max range.  Winds were a 0 kts across all altitudes.  Below are the results from those runs:

 

Altitude (ft MSL)     Airspeed (Mach)      Employment Range (nm)     JSOW-A Impact (Yes / No)

          40k                              1.0                              47.1                                         Yes

          40k                              0.9                             45.0                                        Yes

          40k                              0.8                             42.4                                        Yes

          35k                              1.0                              41.3                                         Yes

          35k                              0.9                             38.6                                         Yes

          35k                              0.8                             34.9                                          No

          30k                              1.0                              27.9                                          No

          30k                              0.9                             25.5                                          No

          30k                              0.8                             22.4                                          No

 

I went back and ran additional scenarios at 40k' but delayed my JSOW-A employment until less than 40 nm; all of which missed the target.

 

I don't know if this helps, but further testing may be required.

[Hawkmoon]

hi, i'm having the same problem with jsow, only i was launching them In PP mode, same behaviour, they miss during final manouvre, changelog of 27.01.21 stated that the problem was fixed but i'm still experiencing the same problem

[BIGNEWY]

please include a short track replay showing the issue, it seems ok for me when I test.

 

thank you

[Hawkmoon]

Hi, here's the track file and i've added a video made on a clean map as you can see jsow C seems to work good, JSOW A just go straight towards a random point JSWOA_NOT_WORKING.trk

 

[Hawkmoon]

it' safe to say that this is another type of problem, instead of steering away they just go dumb, so @BIGNEWY i don't know if i may have create a new topic or continuing this is good enough

[BIGNEWY]

8 minutes ago, Hawkmoon said:

it' safe to say that this is another type of problem, instead of steering away they just go dumb, so @BIGNEWY i don't know if i may have create a new topic or continuing this is good enough

 

Yes I have reported it for checking 

 

thank you

[oho]

2 missions with 4 JSOWs each, no target hit.