p51 curves and saturation

[nikita_nomad]

Hi guys! Just wanted to get an opinion on axis controls. I don't have much experience but I found that all the time I'm overpooling the stick, especially pitch, and aircraft becomes uncontrollable and goes into spin. It's just so sensitive. I end up stalling even at high speeds because of high aoa. Found a video on youtube by a guy called Phil, and he showed his spitfire axis saturation muted to 40-60%, and curves around 30. I know that every aircraft is different but I tried 50% pitch saturation and got a lot more control on turns straight away. I'm using just a regular logitech 3d pro stick btw. Would love to hear what others are doing with curves.

[River]

No curves here, it is highly depending on the used joystick, base and extension.

If you buy lets say a base with a 20cm extension, desk mounts to mount it between your legs you get rid of those curves pretty quick.

Grab a bottle of water at the lower bottom and try to make small movements, grab it on top and do the same. Gives you an idea how an extension works.

Best advise would be not to buy the Warthog base, the stick is awesome but the base uses a horrible gimball system which is just bad. I have it, put it back into the box after 15 minutes.

Using huge curves because of bad hardware kills the modules intended flight characteristics. A Spit was sensitive as hell and is a dream to fly with an extension and no curves at all.

Buy a proper base with cam system like VKB or Virpil, with extension and a monstertech desk mount for centered use between your legs.

If you are short on cash, the T16000 is cheap and just as good as the Warthog. Same system.

If it happens you live in Europe you can buy my Warthog base, brandnew but you have been warned :-)

 

[nikita_nomad]

No curves here, it is highly depending on the used joystick, base and extension.

If you buy lets say a base with a 20cm extension, desk mounts to mount it between your legs you get rid of those curves pretty quick.

Grab a bottle of water at the lower bottom and try to make small movements, grab it on top and do the same. Gives you an idea how an extension works.

Best advise would be not to buy the Warthog base, the stick is awesome but the base uses a horrible gimball system which is just bad. I have it, put it back into the box after 15 minutes.

Using huge curves because of bad hardware kills the modules intended flight characteristics. A Spit was sensitive as hell and is a dream to fly with an extension and no curves at all.

Buy a proper base with cam system like VKB or Virpil, with extension and a monstertech desk mount for centered use between your legs.

If you are short on cash, the T16000 is cheap and just as good as the Warthog. Same system.

If it happens you live in Europe you can buy my Warthog base, brandnew but you have been warned :-)

 

Yes, I heard about that extension to stick fixes the input output ratio problem. But I dont have a chance to invest in it just yet, so have to live with a table top stick for now. What about saturation? Do you have it at 100% or less?

[River]

It is always better to lower saturation and no curves. Curves just do not work linear lol, your brain can't trust a curve setting so to speak.

​​​Nothing wrong with using a curve though, just what makes you feel comfortable.

Just saying that curves tend to mask the aircrafts characteristics. Flying a warbird without curves and proper hardware should be your future goal.

 

Good luck!

[nikita_nomad]

It is always better to lower saturation and no curves. Curves just do not work linear lol, your brain can't trust a curve setting so to speak.

​​​Nothing wrong with using a curve though, just what makes you feel comfortable.

Just saying that curves tend to mask the aircrafts characteristics. Flying a warbird without curves and proper hardware should be your future goal.

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers for advice, step by step for me. :)

[Wolf 37]

I've got my Warbird base and just got it mounted on a Monstertech desktop mount finally, but I can't seem to trim the P-51 out, no matter how slow, or fast I go. I have watched videos by several people on the basic flight characteristics, basically keep the needles in the green and don't fly it like a modern jet, you shouldn't have an issue. But I have also seen the same suggestions with the 30% or more curve input.

I tried that when I had a desk mount and did not care for how it worked, now I'm looking for suggestions to figure how to trim this plane. I can Almost keep the nose down, but it still wants to fall over to the left.

[Черный Дракул]

On 11/12/2020 at 11:58 AM, River said:

Curves just do not work linear lol, your brain can't trust a curve setting so to speak.

For that end you can do linear response divizors. Meaning it still limits the response in certain area of joystick movement, but inside these areas the response is linear. Zones themselves depend on the joystick range of movement and angles of the "linear curve" depend on preferences. I.e. input range of "0-30%" is converted by a straight line at 15° (1/3 of response increase), "30-60%" is converted by a straight line at 45° (1/1 response increase), while all the rest rises linearily (or non-linearily, at these ranges there's not much difference) to max. This gives you accurate control in 60% area around the center which should be enough (if it's not, you can always increase the sensitive zone, sacrificing other zone spaces) while still allowing full control of an aircraft when needed. 

 

Yes, the stick will behave in a different way in theze zones and trimming becomes mandatory in continued flight modes requiring exiting the "divided" zones to increase piloting accuracy. But it's the best alternative here, since in a tabletop joystick your range of motion is limited 4-6 times compared to even short-movement sticks in airplanes. 

[Art-J]

6 hours ago, Wolf 37 said:

I've got my Warbird base and just got it mounted on a Monstertech desktop mount finally, but I can't seem to trim the P-51 out, no matter how slow, or fast I go. I have watched videos by several people on the basic flight characteristics, basically keep the needles in the green and don't fly it like a modern jet, you shouldn't have an issue. But I have also seen the same suggestions with the 30% or more curve input.

I tried that when I had a desk mount and did not care for how it worked, now I'm looking for suggestions to figure how to trim this plane. I can Almost keep the nose down, but it still wants to fall over to the left.

 

Do you use game flight mode or simulation flight mode? I seem to recall trims just don't work in the former, but they do work in the latter and are very effective in the Mustang.

 

Mind you, there's not way to trim any of the warbirds 100% for hands-off flight.

[Terry Dactil]

Don't use curves?

Some posters here seem to have no idea about what they are saying.

Curves are often designed into control systems. There is even a name for the bit that does it: the 'differential control unit'.

Have a look at this clip which applies to the FW-190 control system.

[Wolf 37]

 

I've done some research on how to actually fly the plane in DCS, I was flying it wrong. I was trying to fly the P-51 like a jet, not like a piston engine plane, I kept destroying engines and couldn't figure out how/why. 

After learning what the gauges were, where the needles should be, etc... I was able to trim the plane. 

 

Basically I was trying to sprint when I should have been crawling.

 

As the line goes in the Army for training "Crawl, Walk, Run"

[davescl]

I am 52, been flying sims for decades, but as those were basic simulations, gave no lesson on how to approach DCS flying. I have been tryng not to stall or fall in uncontrolled spins when dogfighting...it´s very frustrating. It would be fantastic if there would be a video showing how to turn, how to execute a high yo-yo, etc. So far I have been re-discovering those tricks this time crash after crash... I feel Highlander right now...