Ju88 and stupid bombs.

[Padonis]

When will Ju88 be able to drop the bombs? It was mostly a bomber.

[Northstar98]

+1 AFAIK the Ju-88 A-4 can carry various bombs, most of which are already in DCS World (namely on the Fw 190 A-8)

[JimBo*]

till then i use trigger zones with artillery for JU-88 bombs... its sucks but hey.

[Admiral189]

Also, JU-88 doesn't always deploy the torpedoes.. it will circle the Chinese submarine a few times and then return to base!

[Surrexen]

+1 please give the Ju-88 A-4 iron bombs to drop.

[MrExplosion]

It's probably a complicated feature that will be implemented in a few years.

[Pikey]

+1 its the only bomber on that side, its such a shame to have no bombing missions by bombers.

[dorianR666]

+1

german side doesnt have any serious bomber right now, its very limiting for missions.

[philstyle]

14 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

+1

german side doesnt have any serious bomber right now, its very limiting for missions.

JU88 can now drop bombs. loads of various ones.

[dorianR666]

Just now, philstyle said:

JU88 can now drop bombs. loads of various ones.

 

 

i can make it carry only 2 bombs at most.

 

thats not much, spitfire can carry more.

why cant the bay carry anything?

[DD_Fenrir]

Because, perhaps, calculating the physics for vertically carried bombs that rotate through 180 degrees when dropped is not a back of a napkin calculation and would be the first aircraft of the type to carry and drop bombs in this fashion in DCS? 

 

Maybe, they they got the simpler iteration completed first and thought they'd push it to their client base so there's at least some level bombing capability. 

 

So, what I think you meant to say is "thanks ED, it's great to finally have some level bombing capabilty. We realise that the provision of droppable bomb bay bombs will not be straightforward but is there any chance we will see this in the future."

 

At least that's how the un-entitled adults around here would have phrased it.

[dorianR666]

59 minutes ago, DD_Fenrir said:

Because, perhaps, calculating the physics for vertically carried bombs that rotate through 180 degrees when dropped is not a back of a napkin calculation and would be the first aircraft of the type to carry and drop bombs in this fashion in DCS? 

 

Maybe, they they got the simpler iteration completed first and thought they'd push it to their client base so there's at least some level bombing capability. 

 

So, what I think you meant to say is "thanks ED, it's great to finally have some level bombing capabilty. We realise that the provision of droppable bomb bay bombs will not be straightforward but is there any chance we will see this in the future."

 

At least that's how the un-entitled adults around here would have phrased it.

LMAO

i literally only asked a question why it cant carry bombs in the bay, devoid of any emotions, because i genuinely didnt know and the post i replied to said "loads of" (which i assume means more than 2, im not native english speaker tho).

 

amazing "adult", to use your expression, response. if you cant reply without personal invectives (appears to be a common theme after clicking your profile), then simply dont reply to me in the future. i would truly appreaciate it, thank you DD_Fenrir.

Edited April 16, 2021 by dorianR666

[Northstar98]

17 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

Because, perhaps, calculating the physics for vertically carried bombs that rotate through 180 degrees when dropped is not a back of a napkin calculation and would be the first aircraft of the type to carry and drop bombs in this fashion in DCS? 

 

Maybe, they they got the simpler iteration completed first and thought they'd push it to their client base so there's at least some level bombing capability. 

 

So, what I think you meant to say is "thanks ED, it's great to finally have some level bombing capabilty. We realise that the provision of droppable bomb bay bombs will not be straightforward but is there any chance we will see this in the future."

 

At least that's how the un-entitled adults around here would have phrased it.

 

He just asked a question... There was no demanding, no screeching, no hammering on the keeboard - nothing. Just that the Ju-88 can only carry 2 bombs and that isn't much (which yeah, dorian is right - it isn't).

 

The irony in the "un-entitled adult" being incredibly petulant in his responses, shooting somebody down to prove just how high and mighty he is. 

 

It gets worse though because you're mistaken - bombs already have the requisite flight modelling to facilitate being dropped initially facing vertically upwards, and then doing a 180° pitch-over; it's already there as far as the physics are concerned and you can even test this by yourself - pick your favourite aircraft, climb vertically, get as slow as possible while remaining as close to vertical as possible - release a bomb and observe. 

 

My guess is that the bomb bay doesn't have its connectors defined (though an animation argument for the doors is present), or they might be a collision issue with the bombs and the bay that needs resolving.

 

The answer though dorian is it simply it hasn't been implemented yet - the bomb bay is probably missing its connectors for the bombs, and there might be a collision issue to resolve first - that's it.

 

At least that's how a silly zoomer phrases it...

 

Track attached below, though you'll have to excuse my piloting skills.

 

vertical bomb drop.trk

Edited April 17, 2021 by Northstar98

[Retnek]

The Ju-88 modelled in DCS is a quite significant conversion of the Ju-88 A4. From 1942 on the standard-bomber model A-4 was re-equipped using a large kit into a Ju-88 A4/torp. This conversion changed the inner under-wing-bomb-racks, deleted the outer ones and the dive-brakes were removed, too. That bulb on the right hand side of the cabin contained the mechanically driven shafts for manipulating torpedo-settings in flight.

After the conversion the options for dropping bombs were limited by the options of the heavy-duty bomb-racks type PVC1006B. According to the part of the Ju-88-handbook dealing with that topic (12 D3 - page 2) there were just one of five types of bombs suitable for that rack:
- two types of German aerial mines, LMA-III and LMB-III
- three heavy bombs PC-1000, SC-1000 and SC-500

I very much suspect after the torp-conversion there was no option to use the inner bomb bays, too. One bay was blocked by the shafts to the left-hand torpedo anyhow.

In 1943/44 a small number of specialized Ju-88 A-17 were build. A torpedo-bomber by factory based on the A-4/torp. But without that chin-gondola and cabin-hood was a late model with one MG-131 in the upper stand.

PS: there was an option to carry a 600-Litre-drop-tank on one rack. Both inner bomb-bays often were equipped with additional fuel-tanks, too. So the standard-range of narrow 1000 km with two torpedos (type LT F-5b or LT F-5w) was enhanced to 1600 km using one torpedo and a drop-tank.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Retnek

[Northstar98]

40 minutes ago, Retnek said:

The Ju-88 modelled in DCS is a quite significant conversion of the Ju-88 A4. From 1942 on the standard-bomber model A-4 was re-equipped using a large kit into a Ju-88 A4/torp. This conversion changed the inner under-wing-bomb-racks, deleted the outer ones and the dive-brakes were removed, too. That bulb on the right hand side of the cabin contained the mechanically driven shafts for manipulating torpedo-settings in flight.

After the conversion the options for dropping bombs were limited by the options of the heavy-duty bomb-racks type PVC1006B. According to the part of the Ju-88-handbook dealing with that topic (12 D3 - page 2) there were just one of five types of bombs suitable for that rack:
- two types of German aerial mines, LMA-III and LMB-III
- three heavy bombs PC-1000, SC-1000 and SC-500

I very much suspect after the torp-conversion there was no option to use the inner bomb bays, too. One bay was blocked by the shafts to the left-hand torpedo anyhow.

In 1943/44 a small number of specialized Ju-88 A-17 were build. A torpedo-bomber by factory based on the A-4/torp. But without that chin-gondola and cabin-hood was a late model with one MG-131 in the upper stand.

PS: there was an option to carry a 600-Litre-drop-tank on one rack, too. Both inner bomb-bays often were equipped with additional fuel-tanks, too. So the standard-range of narrow 1000 km with two torpedos (type LT F-5b or LT F-5w) was enhanced to 1600 km using one torpedo and a drop-tank.

 

Thanks for the information Retnek!

 

If this is in fact the case, then it might be more beneficial for ED to make a Ju-88 A-4 that's a dedicated bomber, or do another aircraft suitable for the role.

[Retnek]

2 hours ago, Northstar98 said:

... then it might be more beneficial for ED to make a Ju-88 A-4 that's a dedicated bomber, or do another aircraft suitable for the role.

You point on it - to build just this rare sub-model of the Luftwaffe's work-horse is another mystery. Fog of war!

[DD_Fenrir]

2 hours ago, Retnek said:

You point on it - to build just this rare sub-model of the Luftwaffe's work-horse is another mystery. Fog of war!

 

My understanding being that the WW2 Asset Pack was primarily designed to integrate to Normandy, at this stage in the actual war the use of 'vanilla' Ju 88A-4 on the Western Front was negligible.

The most commonly encountered were the torpedo bomber (A4/torp) and long range fighter (C-4) variants based in Brittany.

 

There were dedicated level bomber Kampfgeschwader but these flew only at night and were using Ju 88S, Ju 188 and He 177.

 

 

[dorianR666]

6 hours ago, Retnek said:

I very much suspect after the torp-conversion there was no option to use the inner bomb bays, too.

Most interesting post, thanks. Unfortunate about the bay if true.

[Retnek]

21 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

 

My understanding being that the WW2 Asset Pack was primarily designed to integrate to Normandy, at this stage in the actual war the use of 'vanilla' Ju 88A-4 on the Western Front was negligible.

The most commonly encountered were the torpedo bomber (A4/torp) and long range fighter (C-4) variants based in Brittany.

There were dedicated level bomber Kampfgeschwader but these flew only at night and were using Ju 88S, Ju 188 and He 177.

German bomber sorties are a minor, but interesting aspect of D-Day. Finding suitable Luftwaffe bombers to build up an Asset Pack for Normandy must have been a problem. If you need them flying during daylight at least. Checking some of my books dealing with Luftwaffe-units specialized on maritime warfare it was difficult to find hints on bomber operations during daytime at all.

The only kind of large-scale bomber-operations during daylight wasn't done by bombers. But by Ju-88-destroyer planes from ZG1. A re-named group of former long-range fighters from KG 40. Build up for maritime long-range patrols over the Biscay against Coastal Commands anti-submarine bombers. Mainly on June 7th and June 10th the Ju-88 C-6 were butchered South of the invasion area. (Goss, 1997, pp 238). After that disaster the already battered group was disbanded and the remaining crews were sent to night-fighter units.
(btw - Luftwaffe commanders exactly knew what would happen to twin-engines fighters when confronted with allied single-engined fighters. After the desperate sorties against US-bomber-formations in 1943 this was common knowledge. Sending crews flying Ju-88 into the invasion-area during daylight (twice!) was a suicide-order. A war-crime, too).

All the reports by torpedo-bombers (KG 26 plus some by former KG 77) start at "last daylight" or "early night". The reports given by Schmidt 1999 (pp 394) in are written in contemporary propaganda style and can't be trusted, but the fighting it happened at night. Diemer 2010 is memoir by a torpedo-bomber-pilot (pp 206), at night again. Some more details are given by Thiele 2004 (pp 68) - at night mostly. Are there reports by allied daylight-fighters shooting down Ju-88-torpedo-bombers?

So afaik the Luftwaffe bombers flew their sorties at night, rarely at twilight maybe. The main effort soon went into aerial mine-warfare (Neitzel 1995 pp 221) Until 26th of July 4400 mines were dropped, with little effect. Most of the mines used fuses allied mine-sweepers easily were able to deal with. Dropping 4400 mines needed 2200 medium bomber sorties at minimum - an average of 40 sorties for 50 nights! A lot of bomber operations in an area with 100% enemy air superiority. I wasn't aware of the high numbers, there's reason to dig deeper.

 

Sources:

Goss, Chris (2001): Bloody Biscay - The history of V Gruppe / Kampfgeschwader 40. The story of the Luftwaffe's only long range maritime fighter unit, V Gruppe/Kampfgeschwader 40, and its adversaries 1942-1944. Manchester: Crécy.

Schmidt, Rudi (1999): Achtung - Torpedos los! Erlangen: K. Müller.

Diemer, Bodo (2010): Überlebenschance gleich Null. Aachen: Helios

Thiele, Harold (2004): Luftwaffe aerial torpedo aircraft and operations in World War Two. Crowborough: Hikoki.

Neitzel, Sönke (1995): Der Einsatz der deutschen Luftwaffe über dem Atlantik und der Nordsee 1939 - 1945. Bonn: Bernard & Graefe.

[Retnek]

23 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

Most interesting post, thanks. Unfortunate about the (inner) bay(s) if true.

I've tried to find any hint on this - sorry, nothing. Just one note on the optional long-range fuel-tanks sometimes placed in the bomb-bays. Imho there's a strong hint on a very limited use of the A-4/torp as a horizontal bomber. At the right-hand side of the cabin the instruments for the torpedo-settings had to be build in. There are a few pictures showing torpedo-bomber crew members at work right at the place where usually the instruments for bomb-spacing etc were placed. Since the Ju-88 cabin was badly cramped I suspect the torpedo-conversion enforced to remove (some/all?) instruments for precise horizontal bombing. Maybe the option to mount 50-kg-bombs internally remained? To drop them in fighter-bomber style or over-the-thumb for areal bombing?

[Pikey]

Eh? It carries 2x 500's which disintegrates large amounts of scenery and the Spit cannot touch that, so I have zero idea of what is wrong with the bombs. Thanks ED!

[dorianR666]

59 minutes ago, Pikey said:

Eh? It carries 2x 500's which disintegrates large amounts of scenery and the Spit cannot touch that, so I have zero idea of what is wrong with the bombs. Thanks ED!

i think you misread the post.

the spit comment was in regards to number, not strength, of the bombs. in regards to the bombing bays where i presume more could be carried.

 

nothing "wrong" with the bombs, just asking about the bays.

Edited April 19, 2021 by dorianR666

[Pikey]

8 hours ago, dorianR666 said:

i think you misread the post.

the spit comment was in regards to number, not strength, of the bombs. in regards to the bombing bays where i presume more could be carried.

 

nothing "wrong" with the bombs, just asking about the bays.

 

OK. So, even less relevant a concern then, right!

[dorianR666]

9 minutes ago, Pikey said:

OK. So, even less relevant a concern then, right!

Geez.

If I knew asking "why cant the bay carry any bombs" would cause so much hostility, I wouldn't have asked.

 

To answer your question:

I was looking for something german filling a role of strategic bomber (at least approximately), for one of my missions. Hence searching for something with a lot of bombs.

I solved it with a community mod, so no big deal. It never was a big deal. It was merely one small question.

 

Don't worry, I'll try to stay out of the WW2 forum section. Seems to be a bit on edge.

Edited April 20, 2021 by dorianR666

[Pikey]

3 minutes ago, dorianR666 said:

Geez.

If I knew asking "why cant the bay carry any bombs" would cause so much hostility, I wouldn't have asked.

 

To answer your question:

I was looking for something german filling a role of strategic bomber, for one of my missions. Hence searching for something with a lot of bombs.

I solved it with a community mod, so no big deal. It never was a big deal. It was merely one small question.

 

Don't worry, I'll try to stay out of the WW2 comment section. Seems to be a bit on edge.

The post is called "stupid bombs".
We got extra bombs.
You said that's not much, the Spitfire can carry more

The Spitfire carries less explosive power by a long way yet, still not enough for people to use this as a bomber, now there must be four bombs? Even though the weight is maxed? Why? What are you hoping for, a carpet bomber? Yes, I'm asking because I dont understand why you are not happy. Try to be happier with what you get, it makes your life feel much better and less stressful.