Temporary fix for bricked warthog throttle

[Tripod]

A few days ago my Warthog throttle died like so many others and I just wanted to post a quick fix that just might get you going again until you can sort it out with an official board replacement/repair.

This worked for me and I have not seen anybody else recover their throttle in any posts I have read.

 

I found that by reducing the 5V line on the USB cable to less than 4.5V, the throttle came back to life.

 

I did this by simply putting a Non powered USB hub between the throttle and PC, you could also add some other items onto the hub to load it down a bit more.

Most people seem to try connecting direct to system board or another powered USB hub thinking it might be a low voltage issue causing the throttle to fail, which is the logical way to think.

 

Another alternative would be to supply your own external power to the USB line to the throttle only that can be adjusted to less than 4.5V, isolating the power line from the PC/Hub, but only do this if you are confident in what you are doing.

 

If you are faced with a dead throttle or stick give it a try, if you have had a failed firmware update you will have to do the firmware update again and get the last green verification tick before it will work properly.

 

You can read my full ordeal with this issue here:

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/dcs-world-topics/input-and-output/thrustmaster-aa/64402-post-motherboard-specs-of-bricked-tm-warthogs-here-please?p=7130525#post7130525

 

Cheers Tri.

 

[DerFangzahn]

Wow, thank you!

Cheap 4 port passive USB hub between any of my USB boards makes the throttle work. It only works on one of the ports of the USB hub. But it works consistent.

 

Unfortunately I ordered already a new board. But this gives me the possibility to debug this issue. Maybe I find something useful.

[Tripod]

Thanks for reporting back DerFangzahn.

 

It is good to know this trick most likely will work for probably most of the others out there, I was not a 100% sure if it might have just been my unit.

 

Cheers Tri.

[bn880]

On 11/11/2020 at 3:49 PM, Tripod said:

Thanks for reporting back DerFangzahn.

 

It is good to know this trick most likely will work for probably most of the others out there, I was not a 100% sure if it might have just been my unit.

 

Cheers Tri.

In my experience it can sometimes help switching from a USB3 port/hub to USB2 etc as well.  But it's all quite temporary I have found, so not a real fix.

 

(Edit: please don't get your hopes up if you have a bricked throttle, youre going to crash harder )

Edited December 4, 2020 by bn880

[Tripod]

Its seems to be the Voltage level on the USB lines, not necessarily whether it's USB 2/USB 3 or a HUB or directly plugged in or whatever.

 

Mine is still working fine with a lowered USB Voltage, it may keep going, it may not but at least I can place an order for a new board and use it in the meantime.

I don't know about crashing harder, it was bricked, now its not, it will just stop working again if anything, nothing to lose really.

 

The obvious thing everyone goes for is to raise the voltage by using a powered HUB or USB 3 and they probably never try lowering the voltage.

Would love to hear from anyone else who has recovered by dropping the USB voltage. 

 

Tri.   

[bn880]

Well someone else might assume that is a permanent fix, and get surprised when it's not, hence the crashing harder reference.  You probably just bought yourself time to get a replacement (time will tell though how long it lasts).   For me it was a USB version thing, even if it was a powered hub the version made a difference.  Didn't even measure voltage.

[Tripod]

There is no ambiguity in my initial post bn880, The Title says "Temporary fix for bricked warthog throttle".

The very first sentance says "A few days ago my Warthog throttle died like so many others and I just wanted to post a quick fix that just might get you going again until you can sort it out with an official board replacement/repair."

 

I have never claimed it is a permanent fix, only a fix to allow you to keep flying whilst you order/get a new board from Thrustmaster.

It doesn't sit well with myself and probably many others around the world to send my board to you half way around the globe especially in these current conditions where shipping companies are taking longer than normal times to get packages to their destinations and in some cases losing them all together.

 

If I lived in Canada I probably might get you to just repair it for me but the distance means a very long wait and a risk of it not getting back and the whole time not being able to use the device.

 

I am suggesting here that people can temporarily keep their unit running whilst they wait for their new board from TM, sounds like a better option to me.

It is not very good for your TM repair business though, I am happy that you can repair them, good on you, that is a great service but just not practical for everyone unless they live close by.

 

I am also going to question the actual fix, you claim that in most cases the micro controller is replaced in another thread.

How can you possibly do that without programming the the new micro controller with the TM source code.

I would be very careful if I were you, as I would imagine the source code is copyrighted and the micro controller set to a copy protected state, TM are not that silly, surely.

 

If you are replacing discrete components around the micro controller, that is a different story and no violation of copyright infringement laws there and you deserve to be paid for the services you provide. You don't have to reveal the fix to us at all and keep it a secrete, that is fine and you have the right to do so, but it will be only a matter of time before it is known I guess.

 

Tri.

 

  

  

          

[Tripod]

Oh and just an update for other users, mine still acts as though it's bricked whilst plugged into a USB port directly.

 

Plugged into an old non powered USB HUB with other devices attached it starts and runs fine.

That is over a month now, I will keep this thread updated if anything changes.

 

Tri.

  

[Sydy]

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Tripod]

No problems Sydy, Still running fine here for now.

 

Will order a new board early in the new year, at least I can keep flying at the moment.

 

Cheers Tri.   

[kmonicekm]

Hello. Your tip helped me. My throttle get bricked. I somehow get it work after hours of trying. But wen unplug it Will not goes alive again. I tryed to use Long extension and USB hub to lower the voltage and it works. 

Many thanks

[Vekkinho]

So could the main reason of WH throttle going haywire be in the fact that 5V voltage actually fries circuits?

 

How 'bout connecting throttle to a non powered USB 2 hub with 10ft of cable (to increase impedance and reduce voltage) in the first place, before anything goes wrong?

 

I ask because I just bought my TM WH throttle and thinking of all proofing before I even connect it to my MoBo rear USB ports.

 

I use TM Cougar HOTAS for 17 years now (bough it back in 2004 when they hit the market) and haven't had any issues so far.

 

Thanks all.

[Tripod]

Good to hear that worked for you also @kmonicekm..... Interesting that we are not the only ones to see this issue and  now that is at least 3 cases.

 

I can still confirm that my Throttle is still fully functional running it on the lowered voltage level and I have not ordered a replacement board as yet, I suppose I should before it catches me out, but I would have thought it would have died by now.

 

@Vekkinho, I really cannot say that running on a lower voltage is going to stop the problem appearing in the future, I do know that it seems to be a common problem and many people have replaced their logic board or had it repaired, but nobody has confirmed where the fault actually is.

 

I do not think the issue is in the microcontroller itself because if a tech was to replace the microcontroller he would then have to re-upload the original code/software to it and I do not think that it would be commonly available, this would be protected by the manufacturer.

 

I believe the problem is in the supporting components around the microcontroller that have changed value such as a cap or a resistor going high or low with age.

Obviously the people that are carrying out repairs to these boards know the answer abut it is not being shared.

 

Cheers Tri.

 

 

 

 

[Hectic]

Hi Tripod,

Thx for the quick temp(?) fix, my throttle is alive again.
Does yours still work? Cause I’m curious if this fix will last.

 

Maybe an account of what happened can shed some light on what might be the problem. I haven't got the faintest idea what could be wrong.

 

I've been using my Warthog since april 2015 directly plugged in subsequently 3 different mobo's (MSI Z87-G45 gaming, Aorus Z390 Pro and Gigabyte Z490 Gaming). No problems whatsoever, even after a mandatory firmware update in august 2019 (bought the F/A-18 Stick).

 

This week I finally bought the TPR rudders.
So I installed new drivers with all Thrustmaster devices plugged in (including Warthog Hotas, MFD's and Cougar Hotas –still works great after all these years - remember the Falcon 4.0 Superpaks?).
 

Only when I switched form the F16 to the F/A-18, I noticed the Warthog throttle was dead.

I plugged it in my other PC (Aorus Z390 it has the F/A-18 Stick firmware update and ‘old’ drivers). The result was confusing. The device wouldn’t start, unless I took off the ground plate. Unplugging and plugging in without the ground plate had random results (with the ground plate screwed in place it was dead anyway).

Finally I managed to update the throttle to firmware ver. 23.

Even with the firmware ver. 23 the throttle was dead in my Gigabyte Z490.

 

Now it’s plugged in a non-powered USB hub together with 2 MFD’s, the TPR, a keyboard, a Logitech USB Unifying Receiver and a cheap USB-A - Bluetooth 2.0 dongle.

I hope the throttle keeps working, cause it's a long trip from the Netherlands to Canada and back.

 

Cheers Hectic

[Tripod]

Hey Hectic, 

 

Yes mate my throttle has not missed a beat since my original post last year.

And its interesting with your history you mention because I only got this issue when I moved to a new system I built as a dedicated sim PC last year.

It is a Gigabyte Z490 Vison G Motherboard, it worked fine for a while with this board and then one day started playing up, prior it worked for years.

I just went back & tracked down my purchase date, it was March 2012  so she is an oldie..... Serial No. 11439

Maybe it could be something with the new USB ports causing an issue, I really am not sure.

 

I am now running with the F18 Grip as of last year and I am not in a habit of doing firmware updates but I am pretty sure I did one a few years back.

It is such weird problem but at this stage after almost a year of flying with it like this she still starts up every time without issue, I still have not placed an order for a new board.

Considering the age of it and the hours it has given me I am thinking if she dies completely I will purchase another set brand new and fix this set for later use as a backup.

I have always wanted to build an tandem Simpit so that would be a good start. But I can advise no hiccups since my discovery.

 

I also just purchased the TPR's back in June this year, really loving the setup.....

 

Thankyou for reporting in on this as it should help others, keep us posted with any changes as will I.

 

Cheers Tri.

 

  

Edited September 9, 2021 by Tripod

[LanceLynxx]

Just wanted to say, this exact method worked for me. I plugged the HOTAS into a 4-slot USB hub and plugged a phone charger, a xbox controller, and a portable speaker charger in it, replugged the HOTAS, it lit up and is working just fine. A little finicky with the rotating dial lever that I use for zoom, but I assume it's because of electric load fluctuations.

better than not working.

 

 

[MatzWarhog]

Thanks for this tip Tripod! My throttle bricked in 2019 after I had not been flying for a few years due to work travel/life/etc/. I started a "support case" with TM over a year ago, and repeatedly told them I just wanted a new PCB. Emails went unanswered, then when they did, there was no response to "Please just sell me a PCB!" I finally was able to get one ordered recently that I am waiting on to arrive now. Last night I began reading threads on the TM throttle issues and stumbled upon this post, and figured, why not give it a try. After 10 minutes of trial and error today with a cheap USB hub and a long USB extension cable, and adding a few other peripherals on the USB hub... Bingo! My 3 year dead throttle lit up, and I spent this evening refreshing my set up and flying! I have the same issue with the rotating dial lever that I use for zoom as LanceLynxx above mentioned, but I was flying tonight! I should have a new PCB here soon, but I'll be putting it in a throttle and a reworked "cockpit"!

Awesome temp fix! Thank You!!   

[Drakoz]

When the Warthog fails like this, does it show no sign of life when plugged in?  Or does it fail a few seconds or a minute after being plugged in?  Signs of life could include LEDs lighting up, Windows making the USB boo-beep sound when a USB device is plugged in, etc.?  

If I were to guess, something is shorting out, but not a hard short. It is probably something drawing more current than it should and the main power supply on the board is shutting off as part of an over current or thermal over run shut down.  By lowering the voltage to the USB connector, it may reduce the current or heat enough so the power supply does not shut down anymore.  

So the problem could be something drawing excessive current, or the power supply itself is having issues at 5.0V, but not at 4.5V or so.  If it is an over current, it could be just about anything.   

For this to happen at 5.0V and not at 4.5V, the power supply has to be right on the edge of thermal or over current shut down.  So even a 10mA difference could push it over the edge.  

It would be interesting to see measurements on the USB connector for voltage and current using one of those USB voltage/watt meters that plugs inline.  Comparing the current draw from a working Warthog to a non-working Warthog may be very informative.  I'll try mine out and see what the current draw is.  I have two of them, and both work normally.  

Watching the voltage/current throughout the process of plugging it into a hub over time would be very informative as the Warthog tries to startup and negotiate with the hub.  Or maybe it doesn't do anything and just fails, in which case the voltage/current should be stable throughout. If the power supply is shutting down due to overcurrent or thermal shut down, the current would drop to nearly 0 mA.  That is the detail I am looking for.

[Kingsly]

I have one of those inline usb power monitors - AND a bricked throttle! 
 

just discovered this thread and am eager to see if it works. My symptoms were that one day a few months ago the throttle just wouldn’t show up. The back lights illuminate when plugged in, but windows shows “a problem with this USB device” 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Kingsly

[EightyDuce]

Has a cause for this issue ever been determined? I just ordered the throttle and came across this and the other bricked thread (haven't gone over the entirety of it). 

I guess what I'm getting at, should a preventative step be taken and if so is there a consensus on what it is? I thought about using a powered hub but instead of the plug that comes with it hook it up to a varia ke 5v PSU and dial it down to 4.5v. Or use an online DC step-down buck converted and drop 5v down to 4.5.

[Mikoyanyuk]

Hey guys,

 

Months ago my PC crashed while playing, it bricked my Throttle and since then i "fixed" the problem by pure chance by connecting it to a Non powered USB HUB, it worked for a while but now im thinking it will finaly rest in peace.

Basicly when working, it will after sometimes flash all the Leds and in the worst case totaly disconnect itself 

 

I called the assistance and now im waiting a response from them... im thinking to maybe buy a new throttle from Virpil, if by chance i got a fix for it it's alright, but if i get the Virpil one, how can i prevent to brick my gear in the future?

 

 

[Gunslinger52]

On 11/11/2020 at 9:46 AM, DerFangzahn said:

Wow, thank you!

Cheap 4 port passive USB hub between any of my USB boards makes the throttle work. It only works on one of the ports of the USB hub. But it works consistent.

 

Unfortunately I ordered already a new board. But this gives me the possibility to debug this issue. Maybe I find something useful.

Hi There- I need a new PCB for my HOTAS Magnetic base.  Can you tell me where you got your new board from?  (TM doesn't advertise the one I need).

Thanks heaps.

'52

[DerFangzahn]

On 6/30/2023 at 5:50 AM, Gunslinger52 said:

Hi There- I need a new PCB for my HOTAS Magnetic base.  Can you tell me where you got your new board from?  (TM doesn't advertise the one I need).

Thanks heaps.

'52

Got mine directly from the Thrustmaster customer service. Only thing they wanted to know was the serial number of mine.