reported Fw 190 D-9 Dora Engine Bug

[NineLine]

I need tracks when it happens, I need to see if there is something consistent between all these events. 

[bephanten]

i had the same thing in todays mp session. trackfile is over 5mb so i didnt include it. engine seized up right after i decided to open oxygen valve at 5km. temp gauges were fine until seizure and in a second they went over 120c

[grafspee]

7 minutes ago, bephanten said:

i had the same thing in todays mp session. trackfile is over 5mb so i didnt include it. engine seized up right after i decided to open oxygen valve at 5km. temp gauges were fine until seizure and in a second they went over 120c

Agree we need higher upload size, it's 2021 ffs, and not being able to upload 5mb file ??

I have plenty MP large track files going up to 20MB, I uploaded some tracks through other means, but i am not surprised that no one dare to use my link.

[Hobel]

  

1 hour ago, NineLine said:

I need tracks when it happens, I need to see if there is something consistent between all these events. 

 

Dora dies in idle after 80min
and that pretty much always, is that wanted, once heard something about spark plug fouling, is that the trigger?

have attached a few tracks with engine problems after certain times.

after 30 min idle engine start with stuttering after a few minutes engine seems free again .trk Engine die after 45 min.trk 80min idle die.trk Runup min50 engine rpm get slow higher.trk

Edited June 10, 2021 by Hobel

[NineLine]

I did reproduce it again internally, I will bump the issue again, sorry guys.

[MAXsenna]

I did reproduce it again internally, I will bump the issue again, sorry guys.

Thanks!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

[NineLine]

Its a timing error in the engine, it doesnt make any sense so I am sure there is a 1 where a 0 needs to be, I will keel bugging the team on it. Thanks!

[Hobel]

4 hours ago, NineLine said:

Its a timing error in the engine, it doesnt make any sense so I am sure there is a 1 where a 0 needs to be, I will keel bugging the team on it. Thanks!

Thank you, we are all excited!

[NineLine]

Hey guys, so I was able to reproduce it on the Instant Action Mission - Take Off on the Caucasus map, I need a few brave souls to try something for me.

Those of you seeing this issue, try the above mission.

If the engine fails around 22-23 minutes in, then resave the mission, and try again.

Let me know your results.

 

Thanks!

[amazingme]

Will do.

 

L.E.  I flew the mission twice, first time for ~30 mins and all went good (RPMs between 2500-3200), the second time I flew it until the forward tank was almost empty (after ~50 mins) then the engine died. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by amazingme

[Teckel]

This is one of the bigger bugs in my opinion, given the age of the module. If you fly around 2600 RPM, there's a very high chance your engine will eventually fail. It's a bit ridiculous to have your engine fail because you're NOT pushing its performance, but rather flying on economy power. I've primarily moved on to the Anton, which has its own dumpster fire of bugs waiting to be fixed.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Teckel

[NineLine]

On 6/14/2021 at 3:27 PM, NineLine said:

Hey guys, so I was able to reproduce it on the Instant Action Mission - Take Off on the Caucasus map, I need a few brave souls to try something for me.

Those of you seeing this issue, try the above mission.

If the engine fails around 22-23 minutes in, then resave the mission, and try again.

Let me know your results.

 

Thanks!

I don't think this is an issue with the module, rather something with older missions. Please try resaving any mission you see this happen in. If you have a brand new mission you just made, and it happens, please send me the track and the mission.

[Nacho1988]

I think if you don't have MW-50 on the plane, which might be the case for some servers, then you should keep the CB for MW-50 off. 

From my experience, if you go to that power level where MW-50 would be injected, and don't have it, and after lets say a short time of 10-30 seconds, go back the plane will still fly for some time 10-20mins. Then the engine will die... 

 

You could try to keep the CB for MW-50 and external tanks off. Then take off should be done with cowling fully opened. After takeoff you can close it slowly until you reach the 100°C coolant temp. 

 

 

[Teckel]

On 6/14/2021 at 6:27 PM, NineLine said:

Hey guys, so I was able to reproduce it on the Instant Action Mission - Take Off on the Caucasus map, I need a few brave souls to try something for me.

Those of you seeing this issue, try the above mission.

If the engine fails around 22-23 minutes in, then resave the mission, and try again.

Let me know your results.

 

Thanks!

 

I'm doing bug hunting this month in the Dora. @NineLine, I was wondering, would you be able to confirm with the team how engine damage is modeled in regards to detonations. For example, is there a generic boost:RPM ratio that is used across all warbirds that acts as a threshold for when detonation damage begins to accumulate? We suspect that since the Dora has a relatively high ratio of boost to RPM for the Economy 1 setting, ~1.4 ata and 2700 RPM (the setting that seems to be causing the most amount of issues in long flights), that this is erroneously triggering this threshold. Would you be able to look into this and get back to me either through this thread, PM on here or a message on Discord? Tails#0417. Thanks.

[amazingme]

I added another track when the engine seized on a brand new mission.

server-20210705-225631.trk

[DetroiTechno]

Just read through 5 pages of this post looking for an answer to this problem.

 

Just wasted 20 minutes of my life in SOW again trying to fly the dora and... the engine died at 2700rpm for absolutely no reason.

 

Why would anyone fly a plane in multiplayer that has a bug where the engine randomly dies? Why would I fly this plane again now when I risk a random engine failure bug 20 minutes into a flight?

 

Why hasn't this been fixed when so many people have documented the bug over and over?

 

It's nice to see how calm everyone is in here. We all spend a tremendous amount of money on this game. I'd expect more people to be flaming and asking for refunds on the plane until they fix this.

 

*shaking my head*

 

Does ED have a fix coming for this in the next patch or should I request a refund on the plane?

[Hobel]

I don't know either.

and if the problem is supposed to be so complicated, they should at least "simplify" it to avoid at least a full failure and fix the main problem in peace...

and also what about newbies who fly the plane with the handbook RPM and get this error?

[LeCuvier]

I got engine failures without any battle damage. In the debrief I see a failure I've never seen before: "Erroneous ignition timing...". I cannot see the complete message as the display column is not wide enough and I cannot adjust it (why don't they make sure the columns are wide enough for all messages, resp. keep message length within column width?).

After that message it displays "engine overheat" and then failure.

[NineLine]

3 hours ago, DetroiTechno said:

Just read through 5 pages of this post looking for an answer to this problem.

 

Just wasted 20 minutes of my life in SOW again trying to fly the dora and... the engine died at 2700rpm for absolutely no reason.

 

Why would anyone fly a plane in multiplayer that has a bug where the engine randomly dies? Why would I fly this plane again now when I risk a random engine failure bug 20 minutes into a flight?

 

Why hasn't this been fixed when so many people have documented the bug over and over?

 

It's nice to see how calm everyone is in here. We all spend a tremendous amount of money on this game. I'd expect more people to be flaming and asking for refunds on the plane until they fix this.

 

*shaking my head*

 

Does ED have a fix coming for this in the next patch or should I request a refund on the plane?

You may not have read everything, we can not reproduce it consistently, and the times I did, it was older missions, and resaving the mission fixed it. With out tracks or detailed info on the fight where it happens, its nearly impossible to reproduce, so its hard to fix something you can not replicate. 

2 hours ago, LeCuvier said:

I got engine failures without any battle damage. In the debrief I see a failure I've never seen before: "Erroneous ignition timing...". I cannot see the complete message as the display column is not wide enough and I cannot adjust it (why don't they make sure the columns are wide enough for all messages, resp. keep message length within column width?).

After that message it displays "engine overheat" and then failure.

Track?

[Hobel]

6 minutes ago, NineLine said:

You may not have read everything, we can not reproduce it consistently, and the times I did, it was older missions, and resaving the mission fixed it. With out tracks or detailed info on the fight where it happens, its nearly impossible to reproduce, so its hard to fix something you can not replicate. 

and what is a "new" mission?

I have tracks inserted here there I put the D9 in the editor on an airfield in Normandy and the engine failed after some time.

 

and what if you get this error on a MP over and over again.

what must the creator do then?

 

[NineLine]

Just now, Hobel said:

and what is a "new" mission?

I have tracks inserted here there I put the D9 in the editor on an airfield in Normandy and the engine failed after some time.

 

and what if you get this error on a MP over and over again.

what must the creator do then?

 

So it fails for you, same time every time, and all you do is 2700, no more no less?

[Hobel]

Yes

FW190D9 Engine die 1.trk

FW190D9 Engine die 2.trk

 

in part 1 and 2 not much more happens than here. for those who want to see it quickly here is a YT video part 3

 

and even if not, wouldn't it be enough if it happened 1 in 10?

 

I have loosely complied with all limits according to the manual, otherwise they show me the error

 

Multiplayer test TEST Engine die 14:50:

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Hobel

[Ala13_ManOWar]

1 hour ago, Hobel said:

 

 

Can't tell 100% what's going on there, but you keep 3000 at take off for too long at a too low speed but oil temps are already too high before you took off (100º+), don't know why or how you managed to do that, so it keeps going higher and higher until the shut down happens. Even if you lower to 2700 after a heated run like that it's usual refrigerating systems can't keep up with the heat, specially on hot days. It can happen the same with P-51 if you don't manage to rise your IAS and open manually all rads on hot days, sometimes right at the take off since weather and atmosphere conditions are underestimated so many times in DCS.

 

Still don't know if that's the only thing happening there, but those are the obvious clues seen.

 

S!

[razo+r]

8 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Can't tell 100% what's going on there, but you keep 3000 at take off for too long at a too low speed but oil temps are already too high before you took off (100º+), don't know why or how you managed to do that, so it keeps going higher and higher until the shut down happens. Even if you lower to 2700 after a heated run like that it's usual refrigerating systems can't keep up with the heat, specially on hot days. It can happen the same with P-51 if you don't manage to rise your IAS and open manually all rads on hot days, sometimes right at the take off since weather and atmosphere conditions are underestimated so many times in DCS.

 

Still don't know if that's the only thing happening there, but those are the obvious clues seen.

 

S!

 

Oil is not too hot, it's rather a tad cold. You can clearly see, it's not even within the normal operation markings of 110C - 130C (Max is 135C). For the beginning of his flight, the oil temp was on the lower end of operation temperature, then at around 120C well within limits.

 

Both cooling systems work normal within limits in his video.

[Hobel]

14 minutes ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Can't tell 100% what's going on there, but you keep 3000 at take off for too long at a too low speed but oil temps are already too high before you took off (100º+), don't know why or how you managed to do that, so it keeps going higher and higher until the shut down happens. Even if you lower to 2700 after a heated run like that it's usual refrigerating systems can't keep up with the heat, specially on hot days. It can happen the same with P-51 if you don't manage to rise your IAS and open manually all rads on hot days, sometimes right at the take off since weather and atmosphere conditions are underestimated so many times in DCS.

 

Still don't know if that's the only thing happening there, but those are the obvious clues seen.

 

S!

you can still look at the tracks there I have other values regarding the temp at startup.

and the temp are still fully in the limits?

in the manual is even a starting power of 3150-3300 and that you should only after a while down to 3000RPM I handle here even more gently if you go after it