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2 hours ago, Tippis said:

It's also worth mentioning that “full fidelity modules” in this game are rife with similar simplifications and automations that shouldn't be there.

Yes, now you're talkin' 🙂

 

4 hours ago, nighthawk2174 said:

But if a player just doesn't want the hassle I don't think they should be punished.  Its what drives people away from flight sims this attitude of hating and not adding such tools.  Just let people play at the level they want too.

They are not punished for anything. The game allows them to do AAR. It's on the player to learn it and have a right h/w to succeed. You're free to ignore AAR altogether if it's not fun for you.

I can't fly like Blue Angels but the game allow me to do just that. I just need practice. What I don't need is simplification for everyone suddenly fly like Blue Angels if only one can get close enough. That's funny to ask for in a study sim and even inappropriate.

Attitude of hating? What are you talking about? The DCS community is one of the most kind and helpful.


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So tired of all this reluctance to change and improvments stating realism as factor for not doing it. What realism?? It´s a simulator and it is already unrelistic in many ways and in particular t

There is absolutely room for a helper interface for AAR. How do I align the probe with the basket in the Harrier? Well, I can just keep trying until I find the right sight picture myself, I can switch

That's one perfect example of whataboutism.   This ongoing debate about what is a must in a study level sim is going to drive me mad. Where does this study level start and where does it end?

I believe we have easy comms to simplify radios, auto-startup to simplify cold starts and the infinite fuel option so you don't have to worry about it too.

 

I get where you come from as I had to spend several hours to get boom tanking right. I know it's not everyone is willing to go through and there could be an assistance to help. But maybe you're just underlooking the infinite fuel option!
 

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3 hours ago, VpR81 said:

The reason why there is such a resistance against such a feature is propably, that most people play DCS the way it is meant to be played. A study level combat flight sim. And i guess a lot of people are afraid (including me) their beloved simulator beeing downgraded to an arcarde game, drawing more and more trolls and idiots to a great niche game and on its servers. 

This. 
 

Plus they start threads like this one 🙄

In the time you guys spend on complaining like this you could just learn to do AAR


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4 hours ago, nighthawk2174 said:

All of this stuff like AAR and clickable pits are excess minutia. 

“Excess minutia”? Sorry but DCS just isn’t the game for you then. You couldn’t even operate the full-sim modern aircraft without clickable cockpits

I get it that you just want to make stuff go boom, for people like you there are more suitable games than DCS. Don’t ask to turn DCS into an arcade game though. 

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6 hours ago, Qiou87 said:

Most modules I own do not offer a dedicated AAR training mission

There’s no way for the game to teach you AAR. Some modules have an AAR quick mission for practice or you can find one to download or make your own. What you’re supposed to do is simple in concept, it just needs practice. Like learning to ride a bicycle. 

6 hours ago, VpR81 said:

What? There is an option for deactivating wake turbulences, so you don't need to approach the tanker 100% accurate.

Yeah, wake turbulence doesn’t affect AAR if you approach the tanker correctly. Don’t just fly directly behind it in the wake. Look at where the formation and staging area off to the side where you wait your turn and then come up to the boom/basket underneath the wake. 

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Just now, SharpeXB said:

There’s no way for the game to teach you AAR. Some modules have an AAR quick mission for practice or you can find one to download or make your own. What you’re supposed to do is simple in concept, it just needs practice. Like learning to ride a bicycle. 

I don't believe that it is true. Even riding a bicycle is taught, some practice with side wheels, others learn first on tricycles or balance bike... I find it funny that here many are blaming "lazy gamers" when in fact, the game should try harder to teach you the skills that cannot be taught in a book or manual. I do love the complexity of this game, and the learning, but we don't learn all in the same way. Again: when many people have difficulty learning something in a certain way, it is not necessarily their own fault and maybe that specific way is imperfect and needs improving.

 

I can practice karate for hours and hours in front of a mirror after watching a few movies and I would still suck at it. Sometimes you need a teacher. With all the possibilities computers offer us, are you really confident that there is no way we can help people learn AAR?

 

GR (I know...) was speaking about the fact ED is complaining that many people try DCS but not many stay and buy modules. Sure, it is not for everyone, and it shouldn't be. But certain things, like AAR, appear more scary than they really are because nothing is there to help you out. All you see is the top of the cliff, not the path to reach it. My own way to reach a decent AAR proficiency was weird: tried and failed in the Mirage campaign, tried again a few times in solo and got frustrated so I said "I'll just manage my fuel better". Then came Raven one and I really wanted to be able to AAR, so I tried again, a few times, and found that it wasn't actually that hard anymore. But I had a motivation in this case, and still I can AAR only in the Hornet so far (my other frequent modules don't have AAR capability anyway). Had the game presented me with a path towards learning AAR, I would have been happy to learn it that way. It can be something simple, like starting you in the basket and asking you to hold it in there for as long as possible for example (like a kind of challenge). Next challenge is to fly formation with the tanker, staying inside a certain "box", whilst a "teacher" is explaining where you should look and find reference points to be able to hold position. Next one you start behind the tanker and just need to fly straight and manage your speed, aiming for the basket... etc. There is plenty of ways the game can try to help you learn AAR without holding your hand or doing it for you. Just saying "I learned it the hard way, everyone else should too" is very short-sighted.

 

In the end the more people learn and stay with DCS and appreciate its complexity, the more money ED will have to develop new things that we all enjoy. Staying "amongst ourselves" as self-righteous experts and purists just ensure our niche keeps getting smaller.

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1 hour ago, zhukov032186 said:

Lol, it always amuses me how unabashedly lazy gamers are and how many hoops they'll jump through to justify their unwillingness to learn and/or 


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2 hours ago, VpR81 said:

In other terms, you cannot name a single one and were talking bs.

No, in the exact same terms, what you're asking for was not what I was discussing and you're trying to move the goalposts because otherwise it becomes pretty obvious that the original statement was false. I can name several that fulfil the actual requirements, and if you ask very nicely, I might do that. I have no interest in entertaining your attempted evasion tactic.

 

2 hours ago, VpR81 said:

Whoohoo, you wanna start hair splitting now?

No. I simply want to point out that people keep using that term as an argument in opposition to making the game more open and user-friendly, when it seems pretty natural for the term to mean the exact opposite: something that you can come at even with  — hell, especially with — not having all the prerequisite skill boxes already ticked.

 

2 hours ago, VpR81 said:

 

Of course it does. Just not for AAR.

And since AAR was the topic at hand, it doesn't really solve that problem. The presence of advanced system modelling is almost — but not quite, you have to flip a couple of switches after all rather than just push one button to ready the aircraft — entirely separated from the issue of learning how to AAR or playing missions where the balancing acts and compromises that this entails come into play. It's not a systems issue; it's a design and content issue. I don't quite see why your choice of aircraft must necessarily dictate what kind of content you're allowed to enjoy, or vice versa for that matter.

 

2 hours ago, VpR81 said:

I can only give back the favor 😉 

And you can point out where I used that fallacy, presumably?

 

2 hours ago, VpR81 said:

Please quote me where i stated to be ok with it.

Sorry, I just assumed that since you suggested it, you felt it was ok enough to be worth suggesting. I just couldn't imagine that you'd offer up a suggestion for something you really dislike or maybe even would rather see removed.

 

49 minutes ago, Alligator said:

I believe we have easy comms to simplify radios, auto-startup to simplify cold starts and the infinite fuel option so you don't have to worry about it too.

 

I get where you come from as I had to spend several hours to get boom tanking right. I know it's not everyone is willing to go through and there could be an assistance to help. But maybe you're just underlooking the infinite fuel option!

The problem is that, as demonstrated, infinite fuel is not a viable option since it doesn't actually solve anything — it just creates more problems. The point you seem to be missing is that people want to worry about fuel and make the need to do AAR a part of that, but also don't want to shut out players who aren't quite there yet. In addition, it would be a lot easier to go through the process of learning if that process had the proper tools available; if the task could be broken down in more discrete chunks; if the difficulty level could be ramped up in stages by adding more and more of the complexities as earlier ones are learned or mastered.

 

21 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

There’s no way for the game to teach you AAR.

And that's exactly the reason why this kind of feature is needed. To make it possible for the game to do just that. It's kind of funny how you seem to be so adamantly against improvements to the game but keep coming up with more and more very astute observations why they need to be added. 😄

 

There are plenty of ways the game could teach you AAR, in exact the same was it can teach you all other parts of flight, but only if the same level of helpers, tools, scripting hooks, and other teaching features were made available to it as there are for everything else.

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“Excess minutia”? Sorry but DCS just isn’t the game for you then. You couldn’t even operate the full-sim modern aircraft without clickable cockpits
I get it that you just want to make stuff go boom, for people like you there are more suitable games than DCS. Don’t ask to turn DCS into an arcade game though. 
You don't want DCS to be an arcade game, but you propose unlimited fuel as an option to some sort of easy mode AAR? That doesn't make any sense.

I also think your fear that more options would somehow make DCS more arcade is totally irrational.

This would be a great feature for the group I fly with. We always have a few new guys or veterans flying new modules. Easy aar would allow for the person hosting the weekly mission to disregard whether person A can reliably refuel module B and focus on making the most interesting mission.

Meanwhile in the real world I'm sure manual AAR will be obsolete in the not too distant future. Why should the pilots worry about formation flying with a tanker when they can build some SA, talk trash on the radio, have a snack, do some sudoku on the kneeboard,, and get some vlogging out of the way, while the computer does the tanking better and safer than they ever could? I bet they won't miss manual refueling either.
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39 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

I don't believe that it is true. Even riding a bicycle is taught, some practice with side wheels, others learn first on tricycles or balance bike... I find it funny that here many are blaming "lazy gamers" when in fact, the game should try harder to teach you the skills that cannot be taught in a book or manual. I do love the complexity of this game, and the learning, but we don't learn all in the same way. Again: when many people have difficulty learning something in a certain way, it is not necessarily their own fault and maybe that specific way is imperfect and needs improving.

 

I can practice karate for hours and hours in front of a mirror after watching a few movies and I would still suck at it. Sometimes you need a teacher. With all the possibilities computers offer us, are you really confident that there is no way we can help people learn AAR?

 

GR (I know...) was speaking about the fact ED is complaining that many people try DCS but not many stay and buy modules. Sure, it is not for everyone, and it shouldn't be. But certain things, like AAR, appear more scary than they really are because nothing is there to help you out. All you see is the top of the cliff, not the path to reach it. My own way to reach a decent AAR proficiency was weird: tried and failed in the Mirage campaign, tried again a few times in solo and got frustrated so I said "I'll just manage my fuel better". Then came Raven one and I really wanted to be able to AAR, so I tried again, a few times, and found that it wasn't actually that hard anymore. But I had a motivation in this case, and still I can AAR only in the Hornet so far (my other frequent modules don't have AAR capability anyway). Had the game presented me with a path towards learning AAR, I would have been happy to learn it that way. It can be something simple, like starting you in the basket and asking you to hold it in there for as long as possible for example (like a kind of challenge). Next challenge is to fly formation with the tanker, staying inside a certain "box", whilst a "teacher" is explaining where you should look and find reference points to be able to hold position. Next one you start behind the tanker and just need to fly straight and manage your speed, aiming for the basket... etc. There is plenty of ways the game can try to help you learn AAR without holding your hand or doing it for you. Just saying "I learned it the hard way, everyone else should too" is very short-sighted.

 

In the end the more people learn and stay with DCS and appreciate its complexity, the more money ED will have to develop new things that we all enjoy. Staying "amongst ourselves" as self-righteous experts and purists just ensure our niche keeps getting smaller.

Just like the bicycle you need to practice until you’re predicting the movements of your aircraft subconsciously and not just reacting. Reacting is making your inputs out of time and too late and that’s what causes the oscillation. The game can’t teach that, it just requires time on the controls and maybe the realization that this is what’s happening. ED really doesn’t need to invest resources to instruction when there are just tons of tutorials and such on YouTube. 

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2 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Just like the bicycle you need to practice until you’re predicting the movements of your aircraft subconsciously and not just reacting. Reacting is making your inputs out of time and too late and that’s what causes the oscillation. The game can’t teach that,

Of course it can, given the right tools. It could definitely do it vastly more capably, interactively, and helpfully than something as disconnected and distant from the actual experience as a YouTube video… and you seem to believe those help, which doesn't make much sense if that's your stance.

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2 minutes ago, Katj said:

You don't want DCS to be an arcade game, but you propose unlimited fuel as an option to some sort of easy mode AAR? That doesn't make any sense.

Honestly I think all the simplifications in DCS are silly and out of place for a simulator. Easy Comms... Seriously? How do you think a radio works? It’s not rocket science. I came to DCS as a complete flight noob. I didn’t know anything. But I read the manual and really have never used any of those game aids. Why pay $ for this fully authentic A-10 and then turn off all the complexity? 

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58 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

the game should try harder

and yet hundreds, or thousands, can perform this task, even with the game in it's current state. Even with no AAR training mission still for the A-10C. After all those years.

 

This is a large portion of the current user base right now, "the game should try harder"

 

58 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

but we don't learn all in the same way.

and you are not alone. It appears the community does a fantastic job of rising to the challenge of filling the gaps in learning. This thread isn't about learning. This thread is about people that (for the most part) don't want to learn. That think this learning is "boring,"  "not worth their time." But they still want the satisfaction of success.

 

58 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

GR (I know...) was speaking about the fact ED is complaining that many people try DCS but not many stay and buy modules.

Now I'm speaking specifically to the problem of AAR here: I think this is incorrect. The opposite problem is the case. Too many people are staying and buying modules. Back when your options were either a slow and ugly subsonic Hog or a Russian helicopter the type of people that want Auto-AAR for the most part said "eww," and moved on. If you stuck it out you are probably also the type of person to put in your months (or years) cracking at AAR. Yes, we should acknowledge the extremely minor group that want's to do it and just, for whatever reason, seriously can't. That's not 99% of this thread.

 

Now we have fast multirole jets. Those previously uninterested people are looking at DCS and buying them. Now they get behind a tanker and realize that this stuff can be hhhhhaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrdddddddd. Funny enough FC3 had completely automated AAR, but it was deleted when the flight models were updated to the DCS standard. Most were very happy about this.

 

58 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

My own way...tried and failed in the Mirage campaign... tried again a few times in solo... Then came Raven one and I really wanted to be able to AAR.... so I tried again, a few times, and found that it wasn't actually that hard anymore.

huh, practice?

58 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

But I had a motivation in this case

Not really. You only started with it because a campaign asked you to do it (2 of them). And you experimented with it some in between. You didn't look at it as a "thing to do" with the Mirage. You still can't do it in the Mirage... that's not what I consider "motivation."

 

Compare to how many of us come to AAR. We see the controls in the cockpit. We see the receptacle on the external model. We see the chapter in the manual. We see perhaps videos or other players in a server doing it. We see the tankers flying around. "Hey, I want to try doing that!"

I've never touched a campaign for the Mirage and I can AAR in it.... and I was doing it even before the first M-2000C campaign was even released. Because it was something to do in that jet, and I wanted to do it. So I did it.

 

58 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

Had the game presented me with a path towards learning AAR

The game absolutely presents a path to learning AAR. But now, people look at that path, see others go down it, and say "no thanks, gib autopilot." "Just turn on unlimited fuel or don't do it," "no, I want to pretend I'm doing it."

 

58 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

It can be something simple, like starting you in the basket and asking you to hold it in there for as long as possible for example

This is a terrible example, and your suggestion of it probably underscores your problems with AAR.

The act of learning AAR presents certain milestones that happen in a defined sequence... naturally. And it's basically identical for everybody. This is not the first one, but you thought it was a good idea to throw at somebody first. This shows your hand.

 

58 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

Next challenge is to fly formation with the tanker, staying inside a certain "box", whilst a "teacher" is explaining where you should look and find reference points to be able to hold position. Next one you start behind the tanker and just need to fly straight and manage your speed, aiming for the basket... etc.

this also violates the building blocks of AAR. And is mostly useless. You don't need some magic "box." You have eyes, you can see how close you need to get. There are already an enormous number of resources (official and community) which will teach you the procedures and references. Once one skill is obtained, it sets the foundation for the next. But you have to want to do it, and you have to find the challenge enjoyable.

 

lets go back to the A-10C days. You put two airplanes in the mission editor and off you went. Now you guys have instant action missions ready to go, but that can't solve motivation problems.

 

What AAR really needs is time, and that's the thing you guys don't want to give it. It's about building the motor skills. The hand eye-coordination. The Spacial Awareness. You guys don't want to build them.

58 minutes ago, Qiou87 said:

Just saying "I learned it the hard way, everyone else should too" is very short-sighted.

There is no "hard way." There's "the way," and to be short-sighted is to give you a completely redundant (unlimited fuel) tool because you were offered a little bit of a challenge that didn't involve something exploding.


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22 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Just like the bicycle you need to practice until you’re predicting the movements of your aircraft subconsciously and not just reacting. Reacting is making your inputs out of time and too late and that’s what causes the oscillation. The game can’t teach that, it just requires time on the controls and maybe the realization that this is what’s happening. ED really doesn’t need to invest resources to instruction when there are just tons of tutorials and such on YouTube. 

I actually fly in VR, when I'm in the jet I like to fly it, not look at my tablet or second screen or whatever. So yes, any in-game resource I can get to learn, I am happy to take it. But yeah, let's stop to invest time to teach anything, in the off chance that it might bring new eager players into our fold... And if ED invests time to develop features that bring more players, teach them more stuff and makes them want to spend more time and money into this sim, how dare they! They should just focus on what you deem important instead. 😏

 

13 minutes ago, randomTOTEN said:

The act of learning AAR presents certain milestones that happen in a defined sequence... naturally. And it's basically identical for everybody. This is not the first one, but you thought it was a good idea to throw at somebody first. This shows your hand.

 

I didn't actually put any of my suggestions in order, I am actually trying to propose improvements and ways to make it more "user-friendly" to learn AAR. You seem particularly focused against me in your pseudo-attack, trying to dissect what I am saying just to point out flaws. How fun your life must be...

 

My postulate is the following: campaign creators seem to think that AAR is difficult because they propose workarounds. Real life pilots also say AAR is one of the hardest things to do in a modern jet, yet it is essential. Precision flying on a computer screen, or even in VR, is harder than in real life. I am merely proposing that, instead of "automatic modes", we try to make it easier to learn/master it inside the sim. Even the basic setup of an airplane behind the tanker so you can train doesn't exist and requires to be created in the editor, or downloaded, for most planes. I am sorry but this is extremely lackluster. I just proposed that, on top of adding these basic missions, maybe we could find a way to make it even easier to learn AAR. It will never be easy, but it can become easier. I am not a flight instructor, I just came here trying to make an improvement to the sim. But hey, I could also do it like some here and just grumble and say things should all stay the same forever.


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1 minute ago, Qiou87 said:

I actually fly in VR, when I'm in the jet I like to fly it, not look at my tablet or second screen or whatever. So yes, any in-game resource I can get to learn, I am happy to take it. But yeah, let's stop to invest time to teach anything, in the off chance that it might bring new eager players into our fold... And if ED invests time to develop features that bring more players, teach them more stuff and makes them want to spend more time and money into this sim, how dare they! They should just focus on what you deem important instead. 😏

Sure there are interactive training missions for things that have more procedures or controls. An interactive training mission for AAR would have you clicking literally one switch in the F-18 (unless you want the whole Fence-out procedure) and one radio command. That’s really not the obstacle here 

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10 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

You must be looking at training or aerobatic servers. None of the combat PVP servers I see have very many aids enabled at all. The point is that you do yourself a favor if you’re not dependent on gameplay aids if you want to play online. It gives you more choices. 

 

How about a learning server catering to learning AAR?

The top 3 I looked at were Growling Sidewinder, Hoggit PGAW, and Through-the-Inferno 107th Socal, so all combat servers. I happened to write those down. I forget what the fourth was, but it was also a combat server. And since when do only combat servers count? Aerobatics Online or the Hoggit training server often have more people online than any of the others. There is a spectrum out there, and it is largely what keeps ED in business. I'll bet that the hard core combat pilots (meaning people who fly mostly on locked combat servers) account for far less than half their revenue.


And I realize that I would have more choices if I could do AAR. But, as I said previously, even though I want to learn, the existing methods/tools for learning AAR are not working for me even after devoting significant time. Happy they worked for you. I apparently need something different, because none of the online advice has worked for me, and I have put in the effort.

 

I'd love to see a learning server catering to learning AAR -- one that goes beyond just putting some tankers in the air. Perhaps you can point one out.

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3 hours ago, zhukov032186 said:

Lol, it always amuses me how unabashedly lazy gamers are and how many hoops they'll jump through to justify their unwillingness to learn and/or ineptitude.

What a productive comment. Insulting people always is a good way to make your case.

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59 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Sure there are interactive training missions for things that have more procedures or controls.

…and for things that require precise flying, since the game has plenty of triggers, scripting hooks, and helper options available to provide that kind of interactivity.

 

It doesn't have it for AAR, not because it is inherently impossible but because the game doesn't have those triggers, hooks and options.

 

Quote

An interactive training mission for AAR would have you

…follow the on-screen helper gates; give you feedback on your control inputs; show you where you need to be, what speed you need to be going, and what things should look like outside the window; ease you into the amount of controls you need to coordinate; and let you actually feel your way towards the end goal. Also, there are some in-cockpit controls and indicators that you probably want to be shown and be aware of but that's a minute point compared to the actual teaching stuff.

 

You'd have to be pretty unfamiliar with AAR and with DCS in general (to say nothing of even the most basic fundamentals of teaching and learning) to believe that it's just a matter of clicking a switch.


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38 minutes ago, sthompson said:

The top 3 I looked at were Growling Sidewinder, Hoggit PGAW, and Through-the-Inferno 107th Socal, so all combat servers. I happened to write those down. I forget what the fourth was, but it was also a combat server. And since when do only combat servers count? Aerobatics Online or the Hoggit training server often have more people online than any of the others. There is a spectrum out there, and it is largely what keeps ED in business. I'll bet that the hard core combat pilots (meaning people who fly mostly on locked combat servers) account for far less than half their revenue.


And I realize that I would have more choices if I could do AAR. But, as I said previously, even though I want to learn, the existing methods/tools for learning AAR are not working for me even after devoting significant time. Happy they worked for you. I apparently need something different, because none of the online advice has worked for me, and I have put in the effort.

 

I'd love to see a learning server catering to learning AAR -- one that goes beyond just putting some tankers in the air. Perhaps you can point one out.

Outside of “combat” servers certainly nobody would care what sort of game aids are used. But when you look at competitive multiplayer, generally these servers run without aids or less of them. I notice none allow unlimited fuel. Why? Because it’s a lot easier for people to agree on. Or perhaps it’s more “realistic” but I think it’s the former. It’s easier for example to agree on no labels rather than exactly what style of label. 
Certainly training servers could teach AAR. I’m not sure what happens on those, never tried one. My guess is it’s a bunch of people who want handholding rather than reading anything and it would be a pain. But it keeps that traffic away from the competitive servers. There’s nothing like having a wingman who asks “hey what’s this screen on my dash?” That’s your radar... 

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28 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Outside of “combat” servers certainly nobody would care what sort of game aids are used. But when you look at competitive multiplayer

…you're talking about a pretty darn small portion of the players and the usage of the game that they are pretty much irrelevant as far as determining how as a general rule the game is being used, and even less so as far as dictating what features are function are made available to the massively larger population of everything and everyone else.

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Look, we agree that AAR is hard. Probably hardest skill to learn. It should be learn as a last one. Therefore it has nothing to do with new players and their "should I stay or should I go now" in DCS much less their potential money. New users can and will try of course just for fun but they'll quickly learn that they lack many other skills first and humbly get back to basics.

Also it's not something you have to do or have to learn. There are many players that don't and probably won't and they're fine with it and will stay in DCS. It's for those that want and are willing to invest their time.

There's no shortcut here or way to teach it better by some magic interface. Just HOTAS and flight hours.

@sthompson How is your formation flying skill?

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It occurs to me that in another sim, when it introduced a career mode, I suddenly found myself doing lots and lots of formation flying. And doing that, just normal flight, no combat, no crazy maneuvers, just holding position of the wing of the flight leader for many hours, made me much better. DCS always has you in the role of the leader and not following in formation. Maybe doing something like that would help. Fly as #2 and not the leader all the time. 

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Ok, so it´s all about training. Right?

I did an intressting test and did a training mission for AAR with hornet and turned off "wake turbulance".

No problem for me to succed with AAR repeatedly. I can actuallty do it with ease...

Then I switched back to "wake turbulance" and despite perfect conditions it was much harder (although I succeded with it turned on also), but it´s much more unpredictible. So the probability of failure (in a campaign with 1hour ofmission time at steak) increases several times.

As "wake turbulance" is very nice and realistic for the total imersion in most situation I find it not so nice for precision manouvering with a self centered joystick.

 

So how about an option for having DCS turn off wake turbulance when refueling and put it back when ready?

This way we do not alter anything to the sim as we just reuse existing options in a more optimal way for this particular situation. 

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