Jump to content

Throttle movement in-game vs. HOTAS


Recommended Posts

randomTOTEN, please correct me if I am wrong, but the actual Hornet physically limits the throttle from going into ground idle position. That is, it does not allow the throttle to transition into ground idle while in the air. So yes real Hornet drivers deal with a limited throw, but they do not deal with a dead space between ground idle position and flight idle positions like we do.

 

Your example of the Q400 is an example of throttles that work like ours do. There is no physical limitation that prevents the throttle move into the ground idle position. So you get the alarm because, in the real jet, you're physically able to move the throttle into a position it is not supposed to be. In the Hornet it physically cannot move into the ground idle position. So very much like the application of the TDC on limited hardware... this to meets that criteria.

 

It's excessive. The current implementation is accurate, takes minor adjustment in technique, and therefore IMO superior to your solution. Your solution is worse. It suddenly allows an invalid position to be valid without input. It moves the virtual throttles even though you made no action to move them. It allows you to eliminate a task that a real Hornet pilot must perform. No, I disagree completely.

The Hornet pilot does not perform this task. The Jet automatically puts a physical limiter in. When you take off you're beyond idle, so this transition would occur automatically, but in code. You no longer have to unrealistically worry about where your throttle is if you need to go back into idle and apply a few RPMs to get into position.

 

I notice it with the rotary throttle at the base of my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. And my Warthog throttle. So what? I know in the Hornet there's no need to put it all the way down in flight. You can also give yourself an accurate estimation of flight idle if you practice with the control indicator visible.. with some practice.

Not realistic and not something a Hornet pilot needs to worry about.

 

Further, most of our throttles, with exception of the WINWING, have very small throttle travel distance vs. the real jet. Losing 5-10% of your throw is a big deal - it is noticeable, particularly when formation flying.

Their throw is what... 10"? x65 is 3" if that. We are bridging the gap between making the game simulate reality and approachable with all hardware. The TDC, which you brought up, is a great example of this. Only likely implemented because of the affiliation ED has with TM. WINWING does not have the TDC issue, TMWH does. So in your argument its a problem with the hardware - go get a WINWING - right? Obviously I'm being facetious because this is a fair compromise and so would be recalibrating the throttle curves.

 

In terms of coding, there is already an "in the air" and "on the ground" state. Give two programable curves in settings; AIR and GROUND. Let the user decide what they want to do and their own fine tuning. I've already been experimenting with the LUA to allow for this, but it isnt MP safe because of the integrity check. Took me 1 hour; anything else you want to comment on effort?

 

 

Unless of course my understanding is wrong... and that the hornet ALLOWS the pilot to move the throttle into the ground idle position while in the air.

Link to post
Share on other sites
There is no physical limitation that prevents the throttle move into the ground idle position.
There is, I just looked it up. It's called a "gate" and the only way to set the power levers below flight idle is to pull triggers on the base of the throttles. So you have a physical stop for throttle travel in the Q400, just like in the Hornet. Interesting, it is the lifting of the virtual triggers while in flight which causes the alarm. I have no flight idle gate, and no triggers on my hardware.. and it works fine for years.

 

So you get the alarm because, in the real jet, you're physically able to move the throttle into a position it is not supposed to be. In the Hornet it physically cannot move into the ground idle position.
Same for the Q400. It is Physical block+alarm. For the majority of the flight, a large portion of my physical hardware is unusable.

 

On the ground I engage a control lock, the opposite end of the same hardware throttle becomes unusable there too. In that case it is literally all deadzone. Many, many, many, many simulated aircraft have nearly identical systems to that.

 

The Hornet pilot does not perform this task.
Yes they do.

The Jet automatically puts a physical limiter in.
The Hornet idle stop does not physically move the throttles during it's function. Their position remains unchanged. The pilot moves the throttles. Not the limiter.

 

When you take off you're beyond idle, so this transition would occur automatically, but in code. You no longer have to unrealistically worry about where your throttle is if you need to go back into idle and apply a few RPMs to get into position.
When you land in any condition other than a flight Idle flare the transition is also seamless. When you hit the carrier deck your next throttle position is MIL or MAX. When you perform the same no-flare landing the throttles are above flight idle on WoW, the next thrust setting is ground idle. The transition is seamless just like any takeoff.

 

Only likely implemented because of the affiliation ED has with TM.
I believe the TDC option was implemented before WINWING even shipped.

 

WINWING does not have the TDC issue, TMWH does. So in your argument its a problem with the hardware - go get a WINWING - right?
Well WINWING doesn't have a retracting flight idle stop (or retracting afterburner stop with force override?) so even that's insufficient for the task. It would be nice to have a actual antennae tilt scroll though...

 

Took me 1 hour; anything else you want to comment on effort?
How about a short sound that plays when the throttle angle=flight idle? You might like it better.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the thing, a real hornet pilot does not need to worry about dead-space in their throttle movement because the jet puts a physical barrier that does not allow the hornet pilot to transition into that space (gate) while in the air. To remember that pulling your throttle all the way into that space will do nothing is as unrealistic as my solution of two separate curves. I'm not arguing realism here, ED has made compromises to bridge the gap for chairforce pilots already. I'm arguing practical implementation given the limitations of consumer hardware as a fair compromise. You don't like it - great... you can learn behaviors a hornet-driver doesn't have to learn. For me, I would like a seamless transition with no dead throttle space based on what is available in the consumer world.

 

Again, if the hornet-driver has to learn to remember not to bring the throttle into the ground idle position then you have a fair point. However, based on everything I can find they dont. The jet doesnt allow it - so therefore it is unrealistic that our throttles do.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct, the real aircraft will change the aft "stop" after WoW switch has been disengaged

 

 

Here's the thing - it's really not that big of a deal in game. Not once, in the 3xx hours of flying the Hornet has this small zone between flight idle and ground idle been an issue for me. You can also reference with your peripheral when the digital throttle stops moving aft and stop your physical throttle aft movement when it does. How often are people using full flight idle in the game while flying? Can't imagine it really happening much, and when it does, these people are really making that small of an input from flight idle that the small "dead zone" from ground idle to flight idle is an issue? Come on, not happening. Much more important things for dev's to focus on. This is a non issue..

 

 

AAR, BVR, ACM, BFM - you're not living in that throttle quadrant - and if you are, you're doing it wrong! Next.........

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x400 gig SSD drives (one soley for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

Link to post
Share on other sites
Correct, the real aircraft will change the aft "stop" after WoW switch has been disengaged

 

 

Here's the thing - it's really not that big of a deal in game. Not once, in the 3xx hours of flying the Hornet has this small zone between flight idle and ground idle been an issue for me. You can also reference with your peripheral when the digital throttle stops moving aft and stop your physical throttle aft movement when it does. How often are people using full flight idle in the game while flying? Can't imagine it really happening much, and when it does, these people are really making that small of an input from flight idle that the small "dead zone" from ground idle to flight idle is an issue? Come on, not happening. Much more important things for dev's to focus on. This is a non issue..

 

 

AAR, BVR, ACM, BFM - you're not living in that throttle quadrant - and if you are, you're doing it wrong! Next.........

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

As I stated in a previous post regarding other important issues, 100% agree. I am not asking nor am I insinuating That this is a critical issue. It is, an issue, that I would like one day addressed as the module matures.

 

Should this be of critical importance? No. But as the module matures this could easily be something that is addressed to make a more seamless application of the sim for our home gear.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...