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DCS MiG-29A


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2 minutes ago, Satarosa said:

 

I work at the high command ************ in direct relation with the whole NATO coalition and various factions and allies and grouping ..

In my job I am specialized in what is classified or not! And we have to distinguish military secrecy from commercial secrecy ...


It should be understood that there is a big difference between modeling an airplane for a simulation game with its performances known by all OR building it in "real" with the specific classified materials, the on-board calculation systems and the technology inside etc. ..

 

I rather think that there is a lack of commercial attractiveness and of the will to make us certain planes in DCS WORLD..

 

LOL ok.

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11 minutes ago, Skysurfer said:

 

LOL ok.

 

But hey do not panic when they have finished making all the classic collection of American fighter, they are obliged to take it out the Russians lol

Su-15, Su-17M4, Tu-128M, MiG-25PD, MiG-31, Su-24M, MiG-29SMK

 

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6 hours ago, Satarosa said:

 

I work at the high command ************ in direct relation with the whole NATO coalition and various factions and allies and grouping ..

In my job I am specialized in what is classified or not! And we have to distinguish military secrecy from commercial secrecy ...


It should be understood that there is a big difference between modeling an airplane for a simulation game with its performances known by all OR building it in "real" with the specific classified materials, the on-board calculation systems and the technology inside etc. ..

 

I rather think that there is a lack of commercial attractiveness and of the will to make us certain planes in DCS WORLD..

 

You are kidding yourself if you think DCS is modeled with any level of fidelity with regards to anything important like sensors. The entire radar simulation lacks even basic MsDos levels of fidelity. Maaaaybe like Aero is vaguely close in a few regards since those charts are available, but any sort of systems modeling is pretty poor.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, gortex said:

Not sure about the red planes and their FM, but the F-15 flies like an arcade game from the 1980s.

 

IDK, the 29 is pretty quirky, landing especially.

 

And yeah, agreed on mr F15... I played that game in the 80s... Thanks ED...

 


Edited by Harlikwin
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7 hours ago, gortex said:

F-15 flies like an arcade game from the 1980s.

If you guys have real life experience or can point to docs/charts that contradict current FM please share it with ED, so they can fix it. Otherwise your post is a poor joke.

And yeah, I know, g-induced damage model is not implemented.

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6 hours ago, gortex said:

I fly DCS with some rl pilots (some military some civilian) and they also ridicule the F-15.

That's cool, but unless they were flying the Eagle and can really help the devs, their opinion belongs here: https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/46-chit-chat/

 

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On 6/1/2021 at 3:43 AM, gortex said:

Not sure about the red planes and their FM, but the F-15 flies like an arcade game from the 1980s.

Bullshit!

 

Would love more complete cockpits on both the MiG-29A(C/S) and the F-15C (I even would buy the F-15A if someone did it)! 👍


Edited by HiJack
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10 hours ago, draconus said:

That's cool, but unless they were flying the Eagle and can really help the devs, their opinion belongs here: https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/46-chit-chat/

 

 

You assume a lot. 😉

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On 5/31/2021 at 4:46 AM, Harlikwin said:

 

You are kidding yourself if you think DCS is modeled with any level of fidelity with regards to anything important like sensors. The entire radar simulation lacks even basic MsDos levels of fidelity. Maaaaybe like Aero is vaguely close in a few regards since those charts are available, but any sort of systems modeling is pretty poor.

 

 

This is what I explain !

 

The bogus excuses of "we can't make this aircraft because it's still top secret" is a joke.. DCS is a simulator with a lot of faults, not a carbon copy of an aircraft with real materials. (so a excuse nonsense)

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57 minutes ago, Satarosa said:

This is what I explain !

 

The bogus excuses of "we can't make this aircraft because it's still top secret" is a joke.. DCS is a simulator with a lot of faults, not a carbon copy of an aircraft with real materials. (so a excuse nonsense)

 

Well, there's a running joke that DCS should actually stand for Digital Cockpit Simulator and I can kinda see why. As Harlikwin said it can get pretty poor.

 

I won't name stuff here, but the long and the short of it is there's plenty where DCS falls over on.

 

We know we're never going to get 100% of the way there, but we should IMO, be aiming to be as realistic as feasibly possible.

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On 5/28/2021 at 3:10 PM, Harlikwin said:

 

I have fairly modest expectations of it, I know how the radar works, knobs and all, and have realistic expectations of the IRST. Same for knowing how "hi-tech" the Nav systems are. That being said, I'm looking forward to it, and really, in the context of its day say compared to an early bloc F16A the mig was pretty comparable. Obviously you can't compare it to a 2005 Era Block 50 viper, thats just silly. 

Of course. The F16 would be embarrased if the MiG ever got in close. That is exactly what happened in Germany in the 1990s when the US Navy wanted to put legacy hornets up against the MiG. 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Zeagle said:

Of course. The F16 would be embarrased if the MiG ever got in close. That is exactly what happened in Germany in the 1990s when the US Navy wanted to put legacy hornets up against the MiG. 

 

 

Yeah they did the same thing with vipers. The conclusion was, pre aamram mig wins, post aamram F16 wins.

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1 hour ago, Harlikwin said:

The conclusion was, pre aamram mig wins, post aamram F16 wins.

Not to mention post JHMCS + AIM-9X, which I'd say more than negates HMS + R-73 advantage in an unrestricted environment.

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21 minutes ago, WinterH said:

Not to mention post JHMCS + AIM-9X, which I'd say more than negates HMS + R-73 advantage in an unrestricted environment.

 

Yeah, thats a whole other thing. But point being that in the 80's the 80's era mig29 was very competitive. 90's onward, predictably less and less so. 

 

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7 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Yeah they did the same thing with vipers. The conclusion was, pre aamram mig wins, post aamram F16 wins.

Yep, but only if they kill the MiG BVR.


Edited by Zeagle

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Zeagle said:

Yep, but only if they kill the MiG BVR.

 

 

Yup, which was likely back then... Of course in the mid80's it was the other way around.

 

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On 6/11/2021 at 8:17 PM, Zeagle said:

Yep, but only if they kill the MiG BVR.

 

Don't necessarily need to kill the whole flight of MiGs just whittle it down so that when and if the merge happens, the MiGs are outnumbered, and or already defensive. Then the higher performance up close, is not as relevant.

 

Spammers can give you just that little bit of an edge going in to the merge and usually that's all it takes with all aspect SRMs and above.

On 6/11/2021 at 8:44 PM, Harlikwin said:

 

Yup, which was likely back then... Of course in the mid80's it was the other way around.

 

I'm very interested to see how the FF MiG stacks up to the actual 1980s era jet we have in DCS. Personally in the A cat I have a really hard time with the FC3 29A as it is. Phoenix is not Amraam and anyone that has spent any amount of time dodging the latter knows how to pretty much turn that missile off, and realistically with fox1 and 2s I think the MiG has pretty a firm advantage over the tomcat.


Edited by Wizard_03
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7 minutes ago, Wizard_03 said:

Don't necessarily need to kill the whole flight of MiGs just whittle it down so that when and if the merge happens, the MiGs are outnumbered, and or already defensive. Then the higher performance up close, is not as relevant.

 

Spammers can give you just that little bit of an edge going in to the merge and usually that's all it takes with all aspect SRMs and above.

I'm very interested to see how the FF MiG stacks up to the actual 1980s era jet we have in DCS. Personally in the A cat I have a really hard time with the FC3 29A as it is. 

 

Yeah if the 29 lives to the merge, mr f14 has a good chance at having a very bad day. 

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First Mig-29 first versions 9.12 and 9.13 were made for a front line defensive job. Mig-29 was ready to take off and landing from roads. That will be his natural scenery for 9.12 and 9.13 versions. Of course the aircraft will become more multi tasking with the next generation but that never happen cuz the URSS Collapse. Now we can see more very capable Mig-29M and Mig-29K with better BVR.

 

F-14 in a Face to Face against Big bombers probably have some chances to use Aim-54. Irak used very well the ECM against the Aim-54 and the result was ground the F-14 because the Aim-54 against fast moving target with countermeasures was just useless. and they didn’t have the option for more of those missiles. 
 

You gonna find some funny stories from Iran side. But… hey that was just that. 

Talking about real tactics in DCS. You set a bunch of Mig-29 spread around the battlefield in DCS for take off scramble and the F’s fan Boys will cry the night long because they will not understand such tactics in a fighter. But they are real because this aircraft was build with that in mind. 


 

 


Edited by pepin1234

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33 minutes ago, pepin1234 said:

First Mig-29 first versions 9.12 and 9.13 were made for a front line defensive job. Mig-29 was ready to take off and landing from roads. That will be his natural scenery for 9.12 and 9.13 versions. Of course the aircraft will become more multi tasking with the next generation but that never happen cuz the URSS Collapse. Now we can see more very capable Mig-29M and Mig-29K with better BVR.

 

F-14 in a Face to Face against Big bombers probably have some chances to use Aim-54. Irak used very well the ECM against the Aim-54 and the result was ground the F-14 because the Aim-54 against fast moving target with countermeasures was just useless. and they didn’t have the option for more of those missiles. 
 

You gonna find some funny stories from Iran side. But… hey that was just that. 

Talking about real tactics in DCS. You set a bunch of Mig-29 spread around the battlefield in DCS for take off scramble and the F’s fan Boys will cry the night long because they will not understand such tactics in a fighter. But they are real because this aircraft was build with that in mind. 


 

 

 

 

Well the issue with the mig-29 is does the mig get the actual GCI, and datalinks that it would have had IRL. Thats among the biggest problems in DCS. The "environment" the planes work in is extremely underdeveloped. In a real mig29 the enemy wouldn't see you on their RWR till 5 seconds before he got shot because the mig would come in, radar off, guided by GCI, who would tell him turn on radar now, and the target should be there, in range, so lock, shoot, kill. Evade. And with even an older datalink like lazur you have those commands popping up on the hud, to include a hud symbol of where to look for the target.


Edited by Harlikwin
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6 hours ago, pepin1234 said:

F-14 in a Face to Face against Big bombers probably have some chances to use Aim-54. Irak used very well the ECM against the Aim-54 and the result was ground the F-14 because the Aim-54 against fast moving target with countermeasures was just useless. and they didn’t have the option for more of those missiles.

Equally cool stories as from Iranians.

 

6 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

Well the issue with the mig-29 is does the mig get the actual GCI, and datalinks that it would have had IRL. Thats among the biggest problems in DCS. The "environment" the planes work in is extremely underdeveloped. In a real mig29 the enemy wouldn't see you on their RWR till 5 seconds before he got shot because the mig would come in, radar off, guided by GCI, who would tell him turn on radar now, and the target should be there, in range, so lock, shoot, kill. Evade. And with even an older datalink like lazur you have those commands popping up on the hud, to include a hud symbol of where to look for the target.

That could work for a single hunt on a lone fighter and you can already do that in DCS with russian AWACS or EWR.

When you are against a CAP they work a search with their radars and also have heir own AWACS for support. Not much room for surprises here.

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3 hours ago, draconus said:

Equally cool stories as from Iranians.

 

That could work for a single hunt on a lone fighter and you can already do that in DCS with russian AWACS or EWR.

When you are against a CAP they work a search with their radars and also have heir own AWACS for support. Not much room for surprises here.

 

Not 100% sure, but from 1999 encounter of 2 F-15Cs and 2 MiG-29s it appears that AWACS has tough time picking up targets that are close to the ground. 

The Fulcrums, according to the flight leader, were deliberately flying low (<= 50m height) and close to the ground in order to avoid being picked up by the AWACS.
This seems to have worked, as from the F-15C testimony the MiGs were picked up by AWACS after they climbed to 7.000m or so. 

 

MiG-29 Pilot / F-15C Pilot:

 


Edited by Cmptohocah

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Those Mig-29 were armed with R-60 missiles. That was literally an unbalanced fight. URSS didn’t delivery the Migs with A-A weapons because the war with Iran. With R-73 or R-27T that pilot will not tell the Story. 
 

All Mig-29 downed never did Radar use with radar guided missiles or BVR missiles. They always were in huge inferiority because operational conditions or lack of weapons. That was the result of URSS break down. All production was stopped.


Edited by pepin1234
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