AGM-64D Firing & MAV Display in MFCD

[Captain Orso]

So, when you pull up the MAV screen on the left hand MFCD you are looking through the camera of the selected missile, the one you are about to fire, right?

 

So when you fire that missile, it electrically disconnects from the LAU and the next missile to be fired is electronically attached to the MFCS an you see through that missiles camera in the left hand MFCD, right?

 

Since if I fire a missile from the left hand LAU, the next one will be from the right hand LAU, ri... ummm.. correct?

 

So why, if just fired a missile from the left hand LAU, and I an now looking through the camera of the next missile on the right hand LAU, why is the camera obscured with all the exhaust smoke from the just fired missile when it should actually be streaming from 10 yards to the side of where my active camera is now?

[Tholozor]

Do you have the same variant of missile loaded on both sides?

[MarvK]

Since if I fire a missile from the left hand LAU, the next one will be from the right hand LAU, ri... ummm.. correct?

 

So why, if just fired a missile from the left hand LAU, and I an now looking through the camera of the next missile on the right hand LAU, why is the camera obscured with all the exhaust smoke from the just fired missile when it should actually be streaming from 10 yards to the side of where my active camera is now?

 

Been wondering the same thing. If I have a symmetrical Maverick loadout, and both pylons are armed, shouldn’t they fire alternately to maintain balance? Right now it empties the pylon on one wing before it fires from the other.

 

Is this as intended, or a bug?

[silverdevil]

I personally experienced that it fires from same side. But rockets will alternate if in SGL.

[Ziptie]

Since if I fire a missile from the left hand LAU, the next one will be from the right hand LAU, ri... ummm.. correct?

 

If you are using a loadout with only a single maverick on station 3 and station 9, then correct - it will automatically select the maverick on the other station. There could be a situation where that doesn't happen, i.e AGM65G on station 3 and AGM65L on station 9. I don't often load different maverick types in a loadout, typically carry the same maverick on each station.

 

So why, if just fired a missile from the left hand LAU, and I an now looking through the camera of the next missile on the right hand LAU, why is the camera obscured with all the exhaust smoke from the just fired missile when it should actually be streaming from 10 yards to the side of where my active camera is now?

 

If you are taking a loadout with a TER on station 3 and station 9 - it will deplete all stores from one station before selecting the next if I recall correctly (90% sure about that) even if you have the same maverick type loaded on both TER's - so that is why you are seeing the smoke being emitted from the rocket motor of the recently launched store, via the seeker head of the next active store.

 

Apologies, as I don't ever take more than 2 mavericks, loaded individually on station 3 and station 9.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Foka]

If you have 6 Mavs of this same time system dosen't swtich sides with every launch. It is with rockets and bombs, but not with Mavs. You can observe that on DSMS.

[Captain Orso]

Thanks for all the answers :thumbup:

 

Is this Real-World™ real? I mean, is this they way the real A-10C in reality works?

 

Is there any way to get this to work logically - one missile left, one missile right, one missile left...

[Foka]

Is there any way to get this to work logically - one missile left, one missile right, one missile left...

Not in DCS. Only manual selecting racks in DSMS.

 

 

[Captain Orso]

Thanks Foka

 

So...

- fire missile

- switch to DSMS page

- switch LAU pylons

- return to MAV page

- fire missile

- ...

 

I work in IT nearly all my life. This is called, IT on foot. I know it's not your fault Foka, but it's just stupid. Thanks Fairchild Republic :mad:

[Tholozor]

Alternatively you can use the Missile Reject command (China Hat Aft Short) to cycle to the next missile on the TER until you've rejected all the missiles on that station, at which point it'll automatically move to the next station. No need to do anything on the DSMS. The station number is visible on the MAV page in the top-left corner.

[Emmy]

When you’re carrying multiple missiles on each side, remaining locked to the target on the same side is intentional. The thinking is that you’ll want to just nudge the seeker to another nearby target in order to Ripple Rifle Mavericks into the same area on one pass. Our SOP in the 76th vFS is to only ripple IF carrying two per side (and no TGP) where you don’t want the next available Maverick to boresight because the Maverick is your only optical sensor.

[Ramsay]

Is this Real-World™ real? I mean, is this they way the real A-10C in reality works?

No idea about the A-10C but it's how station 3 and 9 is documented in the A-10A's Non-Nuclear Weapons Delivery manual i.e. it will not automatically step to the next station until the first is empty.

 

[Stuka]

 

If you are using a loadout with only a single maverick on station 3 and station 9, then correct - it will automatically select the maverick on the other station. There could be a situation where that doesn't happen, i.e AGM65G on station 3 and AGM65L on station 9. I don't often load different maverick types in a loadout, typically carry the same maverick on each station.

 

There’s a trick for that: tell DSMS that both Mavericks are the same. Before you take off, you go in DSMS, INV, and you configure the Mavericks as the same type. So even if you are carrying a G and a K model, you set it in DSMS that they are both G models.

 

When you’ve done that, the missile video will automatically switch when you fire one. And you can use missile step, to go from the one to the other.

 

[Captain Orso]

When you’re carrying multiple missiles on each side, remaining locked to the target on the same side is intentional. The thinking is that you’ll want to just nudge the seeker to another nearby target in order to Ripple Rifle Mavericks into the same area on one pass. Our SOP in the 76th vFS is to only ripple IF carrying two per side (and no TGP) where you don’t want the next available Maverick to boresight because the Maverick is your only optical sensor.

 

Thanks for the reply Emmy.

 

I'm only flying the A-10CII for a couple of weeks now, so I don't know a whole lot of the ins-n-outs. But with 2x 3*AGM-65D's hanging on a LAU-88 each on 3 and 9, when I fire the first missile and the smoke has cleared and the missile is still on the way, the second missile is still locked to the target of the first missile.

 

In the Harrier and Hornet I only ever try to "nudge" to the next target through the TGP, but in the A.-10C I've been trying it through the missile itself. What I've noticed is that as soon as I nudge off target the missiles IR camera is no longer ground stabilized. And when I press 'TMS aft short' I'm only ground stabilized until I try to nudge again, which is not what ground stabilized is supposed to be :mad:

[Captain Orso]

No idea about the A-10C but it's how station 3 and 9 is documented in the A-10A's Non-Nuclear Weapons Delivery manual i.e. it will not automatically step to the next station until the first is empty.

 

Thanks for the answer Ramsay.

 

Yeah, that seems to be the issue. So many wonderful solutions in the A-10, that the few sucky things seem all that more sucky.

[Captain Orso]

 

There’s a trick for that: tell DSMS that both Mavericks are the same. Before you take off, you go in DSMS, INV, and you configure the Mavericks as the same type. So even if you are carrying a G and a K model, you set it in DSMS that they are both G models.

 

When you’ve done that, the missile video will automatically switch when you fire one. And you can use missile step, to go from the one to the other.

 

They ARE only one type of missile. I'm only using AGM-65D's on LAU-88's at the moment. During flight, I go into DSMS and select both stations, and assumed that since bombs and rockets switch from left to right, missiles must be a given.

 

I'll probably find out next that with AGM-65L's on 3, 4, 8, and 9 they are fired in numerical order.

[Ziptie]

 

They ARE only one type of missile. I'm only using AGM-65D's on LAU-88's at the moment. During flight, I go into DSMS and select both stations, and assumed that since bombs and rockets switch from left to right, missiles must be a given.

 

I'll probably find out next that with AGM-65L's on 3, 4, 8, and 9 they are fired in numerical order.

 

You can only carry maverick's on station 3 and station 9 - so don't worry, you wont discover that.

 

 

Also, as another stated - with MAV SOI you can CHAS (china hat aft short / missile reject) to step to a different missile (so if you are carrying 2 on each side, after firing the first maverick, CHAS once should cycle to the other station so you can have one on each station rather than two on one after firing your second maverick).

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Captain Orso]

 

You can only carry maverick's on station 3 and station 9 - so don't worry, you wont discover that.

 

 

Also, as another stated - with MAV SOI you can CHAS (china hat aft short / missile reject) to step to a different missile (so if you are carrying 2 on each side, after firing the first maverick, CHAS once should cycle to the other station so you can have one on each station rather than two on one after firing your second maverick).

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

I will have to try that, but if when firing it only steps through one pylon before going to the next, I don't know why I should expect stepping to the next missile with China Hat Aft Short should step to the next pylon.

 

BTW I've now noted the same issue with Mk-82AIR's. Mk-82AIR*3 on stations 5 & 7. Create profile with RIP PRS, 4 weapons, 75 feet apart, CCIP, and it drops 3 form station 5 and 1 from station 7(!!) :mad:

[Ziptie]

 

I will have to try that, but if when firing it only steps through one pylon before going to the next, I don't know why I should expect stepping to the next missile with China Hat Aft Short should step to the next pylon.

 

BTW I've now noted the same issue with Mk-82AIR's. Mk-82AIR*3 on stations 5 & 7. Create profile with RIP PRS, 4 weapons, 75 feet apart, CCIP, and it drops 3 form station 5 and 1 from station 7(!!) :mad:

 

For the maverick question: if you were only carrying two mavericks on each station - then missile reject will skip the only remaining missile on that pylon and move to the next pylon. If you were carrying three mavericks on each side, then you'd have to missile reject twice (CHAS with MAV SOI) to get to the other pylon.

 

For the Mk82/83 issue, that does seem like odd behavior. RIP PRS should drop two from each station with the profile outlined into DSMS, unless I've missed something. That one seems worth investigating for sure. Not sure I'll be able to fly this week, but if I am able - will certainly try that and see if the same results are achieved on my end and let you know. If so, would be worth ED investigating.

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Frederf]

5/7 are not valid stations for pair release. DSMS will inhibit if attempted. Pairs can only be released from 1/11, 2/10, 3/9, and 4/8.

[Captain Orso]

5/7 are not valid stations for pair release. DSMS will inhibit if attempted. Pairs can only be released from 1/11, 2/10, 3/9, and 4/8.

 

Could you please quote where that is documented.

[Ziptie]

5/7 are not valid stations for pair release. DSMS will inhibit if attempted. Pairs can only be released from 1/11, 2/10, 3/9, and 4/8.

 

Well spotted, I missed that part of the issue. Problem solved.

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Ziptie]

 

Could you please quote where that is documented.

 

Fairly certain you can find this in the A10C flight manual, which is provided by ED when you have downloaded an aircraft - or you should be able to source it from the DCS website - https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentation/

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentation/warthog_2_flight_manual_en/

 

"Pairs cannot be released from stations 5 & 7, this is due to the close proximity of the stations to each other not allowing safe clearance between weapons as they separate from the aircraft. Therefore the IFFCC is programmed to only release from each station separately, even if a pairs release is set in the weapon profile."

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Captain Orso]

 

Fairly certain you can find this in the A10C flight manual, which is provided by ED when you have downloaded an aircraft - or you should be able to source it from the DCS website - https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentation/

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentation/warthog_2_flight_manual_en/

 

"Pairs cannot be released from stations 5 & 7, this is due to the close proximity of the stations to each other not allowing safe clearance between weapons as they separate from the aircraft. Therefore the IFFCC is programmed to only release from each station separately, even if a pairs release is set in the weapon profile."

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

I have the manual. It's installed with the module: 'c:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\A-10C_2\Doc\DCS A-10C II Flight Manual EN.pdf'. Which page is your quote from? I cannot find it.

 

But even when I download the manual from the ED site (your link doesn't point correctly) your quote cannot be found.

[Ziptie]

 

I have the manual. It's installed with the module: 'c:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Mods\aircraft\A-10C_2\Doc\DCS A-10C II Flight Manual EN.pdf'. Which page is your quote from? I cannot find it.

 

But even when I download the manual from the ED site (your link doesn't point correctly) your quote cannot be found.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why the links don't work. Maybe something with the fancy new forum...?

 

As for the quote - I believe it's covered in one of the A10C(original) training exercises. It's also been quoted in another thread, from back in 2014 if I am not mistaken. The simple part is, the clearance between the two stations not being sufficient for the system to release from both stations at the same time, due to the possibility of stores impacting each other - which is clear what could happen if that were to occur.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie