Submarines

[PoorOldSpike]

I've been dabbling with subs and testing them in the editor, so just thought I'd post my findings for people's popcorn-munching enjoyment, please correct or comment on anything if you like as i've barely scratched the surface so far..

 

1- There are currently these three subs in DCS 2.5.6 Combined Arms-

 

 

 

 

SSK-877

 

 

 

 

 

SSK 641B

 

 

 

 

 

TYPE 093 ATTACK SUB

Edited October 21, 2020 by PoorOldSpike

[PoorOldSpike]

And these are their corresponding Encyclopaedia entries-

 

 

The SSK 877 is this 'Kilo'

 

 

 

 

The SSK 641B is this 'Som (Tango)'

 

 

 

 

The Type 093 Attack sub is this '093 SSN'

 

 

 

 

Below: This fourth sub (Improved Kilo) in the Encyclo is not in the unit selection list so the devs must have dropped it from the game-

Edited October 21, 2020 by PoorOldSpike

[PoorOldSpike]

It's showtime on the high seas..

My SSK 877 attack sub is on an interception course against those 3 unarmed transport ships..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Below: Getting inside the sub, there are a couple of screens like this which might be the periscope or gunsight or something, I haven't worked it out yet, I was mouse-clicking and key-pressing like crazy to make torpedoes or missiles launch, but nothing happened..

(the harsh grey sky is for dramatic effect)..

 

 

 

 

 

Below:Next test.

I selected a Type 093 attack sub and went to external view and played from there to see if the sub would launch something on it's own initiative...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Below: And it did! There were six plopping whooshy sounds and 6 YU-6 torpedoes sped on their merry way.

(For the record the YU-6's travel at 53 knots and have a range of about 8 miles)-

 

 

 

 

You've had your six!

But every torp missed, sailing astern like this!

(You can just make out a couple of their bubble trails)-

 

 

SUMMARY- I badly need to read the manual and try to find vids. (sniffle)

Edited October 21, 2020 by PoorOldSpike

[Catweedle]

I can confirm that giving them a target their own firing solutions never hit the target, just as you've shown. I never knew you can actually take direct control of a submarine, at least the Type 093, so I tried it myself. After a couple of tries I was lucky and guessed the correct firing solution, but the torpedo went straight through the ship, no boom. If that is related to not being able to set torpedo depth (it always seems to be 16-17ft), or if it's a bug, idk.​

 

[joey45]

I think it's because there is no collision model below the waterline. They are old models.

[PoorOldSpike]

More tests-

 

The 093 attack Sub's YU-6 torps ran underneath the Bulk and Dry cargo ships, but hit this Elnya tanker, presumably because it had a deeper draught..:)

I found out how to launch torps, you have to hit "Enter" to lock the target, then left mouse click to launch them.

(I gave the Elnya zero speed in the editor so it was a sitting duck (too easy) so in future games I'll give it some speed to give it a sporting chance of getting away)

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Lock and Fire procedure is the same for the subs Anti-ship missiles, here's one about to finish off the Elnya-

 

 

 

PS- The YU-6 torps seem to be oldfashioned "dumb" types that don't have an active acoustic seeker head, and they can't be steered either, we just have to fire them and hope they hit.

I noticed in my tests that in the last mile or so of their run they begin running in an S-shaped path sweeping from side to side which increases their chance of hitting.

However I'm still working on how to move the sub and make it change its depth etc,

[PoorOldSpike]

In this next test I targeted a small zero-speed FSG Molniya to see if the torps would run under it, but they didn't.

 

Pic 1- I launch my torps but the Molniya must have spotted my periscope and begins hammering the sub with its gun as i crash dive and try to get the hell out-

 

 

 

 

Pic 2- Good golly miss Molniya!

The ship gets payback bigtime as my torps slam into it..:)

 

 

[Silver_Dragon]

Has more submarine Stuff into DCS.

- One submarine has missing:

A Type VII-С/41 German sub from WWII assets pack, that was use by ED to add all initial torpedo funtionality to DCS core, carring G7A-T1 Torpedo. Add them the Ju-88A-4 Torp with LtIm F5b 450mm Air launcher torpedores. That have the funtionality use by Deka to implement your Type 093 submarine, Yu-6 torpedoes and others associate weapons. ED has enable sub weapons launch and that can use on moding, to build torpedo boats, armed with torpedoes.

- Missing actually a Sonar engine to build active / pasive Sonnar and realistic ASW/ASuW acoustic active/pasive torpedoes. In fact, has some torpedoe weapons schemes into DCS: 1 a Unguided torpedoe, on two version, one straigh runing and the gyroscope launched. 2. a "guided" (I think not implement) "wire" torpedoe. Other point, has none magnetic / influence fuze (that need coming on F/A-18C destructor mines) and I think has only a contact fuze implemented.

- Type VII and Type 093 has torpedo connectors on torpedo tubes to launching weapons and associate weapons definitions (similarly to SAM, SSM launchers on ships). Other submarines as 877, 636 (improved kilo) and 641 Tango (Song) has none connectors and has none implemented as Torpedo tubes and associate weapons on LUAs.

- ED have from some years ago sub launched Krub-S cruise missiles 3D models into EDM directory, but actually has none implemented and not have propper LUAs. The same situations has been with the Sa-18 retractable turret on the 877 aft sail, with can deploy and fire igla-s missiles vs air targets on inmersion.

The actual Sub funtionality has a "early release" and surelly ED can implement them in a future.

[PoorOldSpike]

.....The actual Sub funtionality has a "early release" and surelly ED can implement them in a future.

 

 

Thanks..:)

 

 

[Northstar98]

Yeah, submarines and submerged weapons are in their absolute infancy at the moment, there's tonnes of work to do, I could go on for ages about what's missing. Putting it simply we're a very long way off.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Northstar98

[Mr_sukebe]

OP, thanks for the thread, interesting stuff.

As suggested above, clearly early days, but could be a lot of fun.

[PoorOldSpike]

SUB TORPEDOES TESTS

 

Just thought I'd throw this basic tutorial together for any fresh-faced wide-eyed innocent noobs who wander into this thread seeking spiritual enlightenment..

 

1- In the editor create a simple mission by placing a Type 093 Attack Sub and an enemy Elnya tanker on the map a couple of miles apart without any orders-

 

 

 

2- Start the mission (after saving it if you like) and hit key F9 to see your sub and the tanker-

 

 

 

3- within a few seconds the sub has dived to periscope depth on its own initiative-

 

 

4- hit Rt- Alt-Jto go to periscope view. Note the readout at bottom right telling you you've got 6 x YU-6 torpedoes in the tubes-

Edited October 23, 2020 by PoorOldSpike

[PoorOldSpike]

5- pan around to the Tanker and hit = to zoom in.

Then hit Ent to lock the ship, and when the lock bars turn red click the left mouse button twice to fire a torpedo, or keep clicking to fire more-

 

 

 

6- hit F6 to follow the torpedo, you'll have to use the mouse wheel to zoom out a bit to see it better-

 

...or you can hit F10 to see the YU-6 torp on the map-

 

 

 

 

7- Accelerate time by hitting L-Ctrl-Z a few times if you like (and L-Sh-Z to return to normal time) and you can pause with the pause key anytime (it's key PB on my keyboard).

Here the torp is about to strike home (see the bubble trail)-

 

 

 

7- That's a bingo !

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by PoorOldSpike

[PoorOldSpike]

SUB-LAUNCHED ASM TESTS

 

PIC 1- They seem to work okay as long as we remember the target has to be BEHIND the sub like this (no don't ask me why, I dunno)-

 

 

 

PIC 2- the sub automatically dives to peri depth.

Hit R-Alt-J to get in, this is the periscope view.

Hit key Q to select the YJ-84 missiles (readout at bottom right confirms selection), then sweep the periscope around looking for a juicy target.

Note:minimum missile range is about 7nm, they won't lock onto anything nearer than that.

Their maximum range is about 30nm, any ships further than that won't lock.

 

 

 

PIC 3- hit = to zoom, then Ent to lock up a ship like this.

Note- it might take several seconds before the yellow lock brackets turn red, a countdown clock will appear in bottom left corner-

 

 

 

 

PIC 4- when the lock brackets turn red, click the left mouse button to fire the missile, then go to external view with F9 to enjoy the show if you like.

F6 will give you a missile ride if you're up for it.

Key F1 will get you back to peri view.

 

Note the sub doesn't have to surface to launch-

 

 

 

PIC 5- the missile then begins a u-turn like this to home in on whatever ship you've locked behind the sub-

 

 

 

PIC 5- People are on the pitch, they think it's all over !

Inset- it is now !..:)

[Malakhit]

This is a really informative post, and a good study regarding what we currently have in the sim. I don't expect something like Dangerous Waters to be implemented, but something around the Cold Waters level (one day, of course - not a big priority right now!) would be fantastic.

[VTJS17_Fire]

Nice thread, thanks for testing these features.

 

Did you already tested, what AI destroyers and fregattes do against a sub in their range? Do they fire with their gun, with anti-ship missiles (if dived off) or do they have water bombs or torpedos, too?

[Northstar98]

On 1/11/2021 at 9:06 PM, VTJG17_Fire said:

Nice thread, thanks for testing these features.

 

Did you already tested, what AI destroyers and fregattes do against a sub in their range? Do they fire with their gun, with anti-ship missiles (if dived off) or do they have water bombs or torpedos, too?

No they don't react unless the submarine is surfaced.

At the moment there aren't any ASW weapons or sensors in DCS (besides visual); though I would've thought WWII units (at least) would fire their guns if they spotted periscopes.

Both the Arleigh-Burke and Ticonderoga should have RUM-139 VL-ASROC available, which is a missile that drops a lightweight torpedo over the target, the torpedo enters a circular search pattern that slowly descends (AFAIK) on active or passive SONAR.

The same torpedoes are launched from Mk32 SVTTs of the Oliver Hazard Perry, Ticonderoga and Arleigh-Burke (though only the Arleigh-Burke's are animated at the moment). 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
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[PoorOldSpike]

1 hour ago, VTJG17_Fire said:

Nice thread, thanks for testing these features.

 

Did you already tested, what AI destroyers and fregattes do against a sub in their range? Do they fire with their gun, with anti-ship missiles (if dived off) or do they have water bombs or torpedos, too?

 

 

Earlier in this thread I tested the FSG Type 093 Attack sub (093 SSN) against a small Russian FSG Molniya, here's a re-run. 

(I used the 093 (below) because it seems to be the most reliable sub in the game, but it still has some bugs and glitches. (The other subs are terribly buggy/ glitchy until DCS fixes them) 

 

 

 

 

Pic 1-  I launched the 093's torpedos at that small stationary Russian FSG Molniya but it  must have spotted my periscope and begins damaging the sub with its gun-

 

 

 

Pic 2- Good golly miss Molniya!
The ship gets payback bigtime as my torps slam into it..:)

 

SUMMARY- Although the 093 is the easiest sub in the game to handle, it still has a few bugs/ glitches, for example it sometimes ignores our orders and won't follow waypoints, or won't dive, or won't lower its periscope etc, so at the moment doing lots of tests with different types of enemy ships would be a waste of time until DCS fixes things.

At least this test showed that an enemy ship might fire its gun at a sub if it spots its periscope.

Edited January 11, 2021 by PoorOldSpike

[VTJS17_Fire]

Yeah, I read that part. I was more concerned in the US types.

 

Did you trie to attack with a complete dive, so that they can't attack you with their gun?

[PoorOldSpike]

5 hours ago, VTJG17_Fire said:

Yeah, I read that part. I was more concerned in the US types.

 

Did you trie to attack with a complete dive, so that they can't attack you with their gun?

 

 

Yes I tried everything but half the time the 098 seemed to have a mind of its own and wouldn't follow orders, for examp I told it to dive and it started going down, but then popped back up again.

So DCS needs to do a lot more work on subs because at the moment it's impossible to make them do what we want.

Edited January 12, 2021 by PoorOldSpike

[VTJS17_Fire]

I understand. Seems, the modern subs use the WWII attack style, which ED implemented with the WWII assets pack, so they dive only to periscope depth.

 

Sad, that there are no torpedos for AI helos/aircraft.

[Northstar98]

On 1/12/2021 at 9:09 AM, VTJG17_Fire said:

I understand. Seems, the modern subs use the WWII attack style, which ED implemented with the WWII assets pack, so they dive only to periscope depth.

 

Sad, that there are no torpedos for AI helos/aircraft.

The only torpedoes in DCS are essentially WWII gyroangle torpedoes. When launched, these torpedoes run straight for a short distance, and then turn to a predetermined heading, and will climb/dive to a fixed depth.

There's no SONAR in DCS, and the submarines we have (particularly the Type 093) and in the scripts they only have long-range naval TV and long-range naval LLTV as a sensor (both completely generic sensors in DCS). Nor do submarines use RADARs (for those that have them), or ESM.

But in general there is a tonne of work to do to get submarines closer to fleshed out.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
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[fargo007]

They're definitely in the nascent stage now, but still they are really cool and a nice new expansion for DCS. 

[Northstar98]

On 3/5/2021 at 8:36 PM, fargo007 said:

They're definitely in the nascent stage now, but still they are really cool and a nice new expansion for DCS. 

They are, but they are very far away from a proper implementation.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
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[fargo007]

Anyone know how their depth can be controlled via the scripting engine?

 

Such as being able to have it either surface or submerge when called for.

Edited March 7, 2021 by fargo007