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The SME's input from the Harrier and the Mirage on use of snakeeyes at level low altitudes is why use a single or pair of bombs to hit a single target. That is not what the attack method is designed for. Its for large area targets and columns of vehicles or a strip of road. So this will remain a USER ERROR.

 

Adjusting the pipper would make other forms of bombing inaccurate. Decreasing the time from button press to weapon release would be inaccurate. Therefore it will remain as is.

 

I'm sorry, you closed the thread in the bug report, so I can't answer you there.

 

I think there is a big misunderstanding.

 

The problem isn't to hope for a direct hit with a single bomb in CCIP.

The problem as I see it in my test, is that if you press the trigger when the pipper is over the target, the first bomb is consistently long, about 200ft long in my test (60m).

 

Yes there is a processing delay which means that the bomb will be dropped some times after the trigger press.

 

What Ergo tried to explain, it's that the delay is known by the system.

So the pipper is rised up to account for the release delay.

So when the pilot press the trigger, actually he is making a target designation, with very short time CCRP. (By the way, on Hornet & Harriet, if the pilot makes a designation with the dashed pipper, it will transition from CCIP to CCRP, but this would most likely happen with free fall bombs, not high drag).

So the pilot has to maintain the trigger pressed and hold still until the last bomb is released, and the first bomb of the salvo will land closer to the target in the centre of the pipper than the 60m long currently.

 

I talked with Jean-Louis Bernard.

The guy is a former Dassault Aviation engineer.

He worked on the support of Mirage F1 EQ sold to Iraq during the war with Iran.

 

http://les-heros-de-bagdad.over-blog.com/

 

http://www.editions-jpo.com/fr/home/221-les-heros-de-bagdad-tome-2-9782373011319.html

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCego5xtVXGPakwbYc2Rld9A

 

I asked him about CCIP, and if he had some video about CCIP attack run. Unfortunately it isn't the case.

But what he told me matches Ergo description.

So the hexagonal pipper represent the impact point of the salvo.

There should be a "hole" in the bomb fall line (BFL) which represent the last bomb of the salvo (missimg feature).

So all bombs will fall between the pipper and the hole in the BFL, give or take a few meters.

 

We are talking here about Mirage F1 EQ5 from the 80', nothing as fancy as Mirage 2000N or Mirage 2000D.

 

I noted you asked to your "SME" at EC 2/5 and I'm happy about that.

I'm sure it will be low priority since they don't use high drag bombs anymore.

But I'm confident it will work as described by Ergo and Jean-Louis Bernard.

 

All that doesn't mean it is recommended to attack pin point targets with a single bomb in CCIP.

Of course you should set a bomb salvo, put the target(s) between the pipper and the hole in the BFL (inside the salvo projected impacts line), press the trigger and wait until all bombs are released.

 

The CCIP on the Mirage 2000C is only used with high drag bombs, so currently only Mk-82SE and BLG-66.

I don't understand why it would make other forms of bombing inaccurate ? This is about improving CCIP accuracy.

And you are ruling out any modification before SME answer. Or did you already get an answer ?

 

Question: are you also system coder for Razbam ?

Edited by jojo

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I have already stated what is and what will be. If at some point it changes, then that will be so. I'm not going to continue beating this dead horse after I have already talked to the team, the SME and done my own tests to come to the conclusion pouring alot of my own personal time into trying to figure out the is and outs of the perception this is inaccurate behavior.

 

I have no issues accurately hitting a target by using the top of the hexagonal pipper, not to mention I never use this unless its a column or a large area target. The behavior persists throughout every airframe that carries MK82SEs. We actually found the MK82AIRs tend to be more accurate and fall less short when using the center of the pipper but every single one had to use an earlier point of aim in order to hit the target accurately. But again using a method ill suited to this type of weapon.

 

I am not a coder, im simply volunteering my spare time right now to help Ron and the RAZBAM team streamline their bug reporting, moderating the forums as well as assisting in acquiring talent for projects.

 

Im also not sure where you assume our SME belongs to 2/5. Sure, the squadron does actively use our module in its simulators that is true but the identity of our SME is not public knowledge due to security concerns for them. So I would suggest avoiding assumptions as we all know that rumors can spread and in accurate information can be bad for everyone.

 

What I ask is that there be a certain level of trust garnered here. I am doing the most that I can, with the free time I do have, to best represent the communities concerns. I'm coming from the community to help a dev team. I'm not paid, im not endorsed, nor am I receiving special benefits like CB access or free modules. I simply care about you all and the dev teams having great relationships free from harrassment and toxicity.

 

Looking at other bugs and other resolutions I think its fair to say that what I say isn't a lie and I'm not deceiving or lieing to anyone for any reason. I do my best to bring the issues to the attention of the devs and have them look at it as well as working closely with community members and CB testers to find the root of the issues so they can be solved.

 

When I do get a result, answer or resolution to the issue, that means I have done everything in my position to fix it for you guys. I've probably sat down and flown with several dozen folks who have had problems and simply needed coaching or a person to talk to who doesn't hide behind a forum label and just puts the blanket over everything. Im open and honest as much as my NDA contract allows.

 

I hope this explains everything for you and we don't need to discuss things further regarding the matter. If the individuals who are considered "experts" want to reach out to me then it will go through the proper channels with regards to classified information and security measures to authenticate their identity and then perhaps using them as an SME if contracts and legalities allow.

 

If you still have further concerns then I encourage you to PM me here or on the discord and we can set up a time to talk voice to voice to better ease concerns you may have and not babble on about it here.

 

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass.

 

— Dave 'Preacher' Pace, USN.

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The reason is most likely that you are all flying closer to a correct bombing wire when your bombs hit, and not even close to the correct bombing wire with poor mech when they miss. Go read about the bombing wire, aim off point, aim off distance, initial aim-off angle/initial aim-off distance, roll in and base altitudes, track time and the rest of the parameters involved. If your bomb settings are not correct, and your wire is wrong you will see your pipper moving very fast across the ground. That means abort the pass, reconfigure your weapons and try again.

 

Elmo, get a list of weapons you want to shack, get settings for the dumb bombs and I’ll hop online soon to talk you thru setting the correct wire and you can publish the bombs shacking the targets. If the wire gets fixed and they still miss, you’ll know the CCIP code needs fixing.

 

As it is, you can’t trust data from a bunch of shitty passes showing pretty much nothing other than extreme incompetence in GP weapons delivery. And it’s not their fault. They don’t do it for a living or know what to look for.

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As it is, you can’t trust data from a bunch of shitty passes showing pretty much nothing other than extreme incompetence in GP weapons delivery. And it’s not their fault. They don’t do it for a living or know what to look for.

 

Wow this is harsh...

Some of us used to do it for a living and took their time to give you detailed and justified technical arguments to explain you the how and why, and you sum it up by a condiscending "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."

This is a pretty effective way to take people of goodwill out of Razbam's threads...

What a pity.

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