Trying to decide, upgrade card or new pc

[pchRage]

much appreciated Gunnars Driver!

[eatthis]

MSI Z270 GAMING M5

Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO

 

fwiw im custom watercooled with an asus z270 strix. i THINK im running 1.34 or 1.35v to get 100% stable 5ghz. had to delid it this year though because the crap intel used broke down and the temps ROCKETED!

[Gunnars Driver]

Your

Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO

is a kind of budget cooler. Not bad for the size but it could be wise to get better cooling.

 

Remember, for DCS purpose (single core performance) a 7700K is more or less as good as any CPU , especially if you can get it to Ghz.

 

If you have the space and would like to go for a simple solution, the Noctua D15 is the way to go. Very good cooling and low noise. I got if for my older i7 and kept it when I got the i9 9900KS, overclocked to 5.2Ghz. Still cooling good and low noise levels. There are other good aircoolers but the D15 is in the top and possibly the quietest.

 

My friend builded a i9 10980XE 18 core and bought the same cooler, very efficient. He also got the NZXT Kraken 360mm Z73, which was very noisy but cooled a only a few degrees better than the Noctua D15. After changing the fans to noctua, its not noisy anymore but the corst for a NZXT Kraken Z73 +3 140 mm Noctua isnt a cheap solution at all.

 

I’ll dig into the motherboard and overclock later.

[Svsmokey]

Noctua NH-D15S here , very happy with cooling .

[pchRage]

thx for the details. gpu. psu, new cooler... hmmm leaning other direction and thinking this can be a hand-me-down :)

 

 

i10 vs 59x rathole to figure out i suppose

[Gunnars Driver]

MSI Z270 GAMING M5

 

So, we imagine you have made the cooling sufficient. The 7700K isnt known to run cold. Use good cooling paste(liquid metal like coolaboration liquid pro or conductonaut is best)

 

It could be wise to have a good temperature monitoring software. I like Core Temp: its free, and it show temps for each CPU core in the windows bar to the right beside the clock. https://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

https://www.ocbase.com/

I checked this video(manual overclocking video) and it looks good:

https://www.tweaktown.com/guides/8075/ultimate-msi-z270-gaming-m7-motherboard-build-guide/index.html

 

Follow it step by step.

I would begin to set the AWX stepping to -2 or -4 to make sure AWX instructions dont give you problems. I dont think DCS use AWX, so you can have them set lower to not hang the CPU in test or when doing other stuff then DCS, and still get 5.0Ghz or so with DCS.

 

You can set a higher voltage then 1.300 if the CPU hangs on 1.300v. More than 1.400V start to be quite much, so staty below that number. Also, increasing voltage increases temps and I guess you might run into temp problems( lets say 90 degrees is safe, and 100 is the limit).

 

The overclocking needs tests to ensure it runs stable. Real ocerclockers runs the overclock fdor days with very though stressing software but for DCS that at most only loads ione core much, you should use for example occt ( https://www.ocbase.com/ ). Use this for the stress tests and use the setting not to stress test with AWX to begin with.

 

If it hangs, increase the voltage by 0.02V or so, and run the test again. Keep an eye on the core temp values for the CPU, and abort if it runs to hot. Then you need to lover the voltage or get better cooling, ultimate way is to delidd the CPU...but it isnt reallly for forst time overclockers if you ask me( not hard to do but a slight risk of bricking the CPU). I had to delidd my former CPU (i7 3770K) because it did run very hot and the delidd saved me around 25 degree C at load.

7700K is also known to run hot due to Intel using the same bad way of transfering heat from the cpu chip to the IHS.

 

That a very short course on OC. I havent worked much with MSI motherboards, just a little. I more or less always do ASUS formyself.

 

Should be good for a start and if the cooling is up to it and you didnt get the worst 7700K you should be able to hit 5.0.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Gunnars Driver

[Gunnars Driver]

thx for the details. gpu. psu, new cooler... hmmm leaning other direction and thinking this can be a hand-me-down :)

 

 

i10 vs 59x rathole to figure out i suppose

 

I wouldnt be surprised if we find the ryzen 5900x or so not to produce as good single core values as iin the advertisment/tests, this due to DCS not using the most modern instructiuons. We can sure hope it does it in DCS also....would be very nice but... Anyway, even if ot does, its 4.8Ghz in single core and 4.5 in 12 core so if you get that one and it delivers as it is said wont be that much faster than your 7700K at 5.0.

 

The expensive part is the GPU, a descent PSU isnt that much and a Noctua D15 is 90 bucks.

You dont need to get a 3080, a 2080ti will be fine if you like to save money.

 

I have a 2080ti now and it runs very nice with my reverb( 150% SS) I have the 3090 on order, but also a pimax 8KX which I recon need all the GPU power there is.

 

A 3080 would be nicer of course in your case. Also nothing wrong with a 5900x but it calls for a new mobo and I guess new RAM so virtually a new computer build. For DCS purposes youll be fine with your 7700K clocked to 5ghz.

[pchRage]

thanks for all the info Gunnars!

 

 

Will give the further clocking at try with an eye on temps

[SneakyBastd]

What did you adjust to get to 5GHz?

 

LLC to a fairly high level (5 or 6? Asus) to prevent voltage droop, vCore 1.34, multi to 50, no AVX offset. You might need a little more or less vCore. I delidded mine and used liquid metal to make it run 20C cooler, but it was still fine without doing so. I think my chip is middle of the road, seen better, seen worse.

It runs 5.1 without issue if HT is off, and that helps a fair bit in DCS. Mostly I keep it 4C/8T though at 5GHz.

[wormeaten]

Overcloacking from 4.8 to 5 is pointless. Benefit is minimum and practically not noticable in real DCS performance true regular game play. Only if you will constantly watching your FPS meter. This performances is also even more not noticeable in 4K/VR usage because there is no bottleneck for your CPU in such usage. Only maybe on 1080p graphic with low details.

 

You should only invest in new GPU, 3080 or maybe even 6800XT who will be significantly lower price but similar performances.

 

Unfortunately in DCS this is not garantied satisfaction in VR with new GPU because only real bottleneck in VR is DCS engine not a hardware.

 

My advice is to wait little bit longer for release of AMD GPU and when we will finally get more GPUs on market to get more reliable benchmarks especially for DCS. Right now new GPUs are more enigma then solutions.

[Zoomer]

Best advice at this stage is wait and see what AMD brings to the table. Upgrading your CPU will bring a very limited return due to ED`s poor optimization. I`m still rocking a 4790k @4.7ghz along with a 2080. I may upgrade the GPU depending on what AMD launch. A 3080 20gb is likely inbound as well, so patience is a virtue here. I think the time for new build/upgrade will be 2021, early 2022. AMD will have the new upgrade cycle AM5 socket with ZEN 4, DDR5 @8400mhz and PCIe 5.0. That setup along with the new drives and tech will be on another level to what we have now.

 

Hopefully DCS 3.0 will be out by then, optimized to take advantage of what's in the pipeline. If ED still haven`t cracked the performance nut by then, then you can forget about DCS as they will not be able to compete with the competition. Nature abhors a vacuum and ED really have to make their engine fit for purpose for the modern era or else they will be left behind.

[stormrider]

 

Resolution of cockpit displays: I use 1024 every frame( I dont know if there is a difference but I have thought so.)

 

 

In my system this makes a huge difference between a stuttering slide show when TGP is up and a reasonable smooth system. What I see no difference is in the quality of feed displayed in the MFDs, in particular the TGP when running at 256 or higher, so I just keep it at minimum for best performance.

[Gunnars Driver]

Overcloacking from 4.8 to 5 is pointless. Benefit is minimum and practically not noticable in real DCS performance true regular game play.

 

Unfortunately in DCS this is not garantied satisfaction in VR with new GPU because only real bottleneck in VR is DCS engine not a hardware.

 

Im not with you there. Two reasons:

- First of all we had the discussion about getting a new CPU or not. In this aspect I /we are saying that if the current CPU can be clocked to about 5Ghz, it will perform about the same as a new CPU@5Ghz-ish. Therefore, there is no real gain in DCS with a new CPU if its clocked to 5.0.

 

-Second, with VR we know that the load on the CPU is hard, and if we have a too slow CPU-clock

it will sure be a bottleneck. Clocking from 4.8 to 5.0 might only be give 4% extra CPU-power but it also about 1ms shorter CPU time when close to 22ms. The difference between keeping the CPU frametime below 22ms(for me with Rift at that time, Reverb today) is crucial. If it stays below = smooth gaming, if it goes above= stutter.

Its not only a fps question, but a question of less stutter.

 

For me, when I got the first VR-set 2016, I had a i7 3770K@4.5Ghz (+GTX1080) and after increasing the clock to 4.7-4.8 I got much smother gaiming( this was before fpsvr for me so I couldnt see the frame times. One year ago I tested 5.0ghz on my i7, it could do DCS but didnt make other stress tests. I found out that I had much less stutter but I couldnt rely in that CPU@5Ghz so I decided to upgrade.

 

OP will most probably upgrade the GPU (3080?) and that will make a ”weak” CPU limit the graphic settings to keep the stutter down. I say that having a CPU that probably is capable of 5.0Ghz is denying yourself from a better gaming experience, at a very low cost.

[Gunnars Driver]

In my system this makes a huge difference between a stuttering slide show when TGP is up and a reasonable smooth system. What I see no difference is in the quality of feed displayed in the MFDs, in particular the TGP when running at 256 or higher, so I just keep it at minimum for best performance.

 

And no quality/readability degadation from lowering this value at all ?

 

If so, and if it gives gain in gaming I have to try.

[pchRage]

I dont think i want to be sporting a 1080 until 2022 :-)

 

I can wait a ~month to see how 5950 looks vs current latest Intel, and then I think i pull the trigger on new build for end of year.

 

3080 vs 3090 for VR debate ensues :-)

 

 

[Gunnars Driver]

Theres articles on the net about the 5950x being clocked to 6ghz. That would be something !