Trying to decide, upgrade card or new pc

[pchRage]

Current PC. i-7700K OC'd @4.8GHz, 32GB @ 3000MHz, M2, GTX 1080 8GB, Valve Index.

 

 

I've read many many threads on bottleneck cpu for vr vs card, etc. Feels like I'm GPU bound.. leaning me toward just card upgrade...

 

 

Currently running the settings quite low, (attached pic) with PD 1.0, SteamVR SS 120%.

 

 

Task Manager will show GPU usually around 75-80%, and occasional spikes to 100%. 8GB Ram for card will be 100%.

 

 

CPU will only ever sit around 55% regardless of 90 fps, 45fps, and the dips around airports in the 20-30 fps...

 

 

I haven't bought fpsVR yet...

 

 

Seems like im GFX bound, but no matter what setting I try i can't really get the CPU to increase.

 

 

Last I read, perhaps try using PD to put more on CPU, and reduce the SS so less on GPU. But when I bumped PD to 1.3, and SS to 100%, the CPU really didnt change, but the GPU went up to 95%..soooo?

 

 

 

I'd "assume" I should have CPU running at 80-90% like the GPU...

 

 

Any help on balancing out CPU/GPU and what direction for upgrade to take is most appreciated.

 

 

Thanks!

[dburne]

I would think a new 3080 GPU would serve you well.

[pchRage]

Thanks dburne. Any thoughts on what settings i can increase for cpu only?

[Gunnars Driver]

Thanks dburne. Any thoughts on what settings i can increase for cpu only?

 

If its possible to increase the OC a bit maybe 5.0Ghz, its virtually no difference between your CPU and *any* other new when playing DCS. If you domt do other games, there really is no need or only a slight, very slight difference if you get a CPU that go beyond 5.0Ghz.

I have a 9900KS, clocked to 5.2Ghz, and Those 4% can be seen in measured data when tweaking but I think if I notice it during gaming it is mostly that I want to believe I notice it. ( that said, CPU clock speed is currently the only weapon that can be used when the CPU is limiting DCS.

 

You can get a win in other games and other software with a new computer build but for DCS I would have tweaked the overclock as far possible. If needed get a better cooling solution for the CPU. After that, put the rest of the money on the graphics card.

[Gunnars Driver]

Thanks dburne. Any thoughts on what settings i can increase for cpu only?

 

[Edit]Reference to my old setup, i7@4.8 and GTX1080)[End Edit]

 

Shadows Flat should be possible.

Resolution of cockpit displays: I use 1024 every frame( I dont know if there is a difference but I have thought so.)

Terrain textures seems to not make a big difference in VR but also not a very big load either. I had high set with my former i7@4.8ghz still with buttersmootj gaming.

 

Threes visibility is very low for you, after the gpu upgrade increase to at least 60-70%, to avoid se them grow :-/

I have preload radius maxed out and this have helped with the smooth gaming for me. It might load the GPU to much( dont know what gpu you have now). After upgrade= do it.

 

Du you have fpsvr ? (small steam software, about 4usd).

Use it for determing the CPU and GPU frame times. Change settings and see how the frame time changes.

For example, at 90Fps you cannot go above 11.1 ms, and for 45fps 22.2. 1000/fps= max possible frame time.

 

If you dont have or cannot ise with index, use task manager -> system monitor and look at the CPU load om the side that shows load om each core/thread. Look at the single core that is most loaded. When it reaches 100% that would be about the same thing as havibg the frame time getting close to or above the possible according to above.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Gunnars Driver

[Motomouse]

On my 1080Ti a small preload has no negative impact for me and provides substantial better performance.

[pchRage]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

 

I'm leaning towards gpu change..but that will also require a new PSU... I think my concern is if I go that route, and then the cpu is more bottleneck, I may kick myself for partial :-)

 

Attached is another capture.. SP, Syria, F16, flying low on the settings above.

 

I have:

- resource monitor showing CPU around 55%

- task manager showing GPU in the 70-90%

- SteamVR Dev Frame Timing showing CPU/GPU.. usually around 16ms

 

 

Edited:

- Second attachment is the system/OC info...

Edited October 16, 2020 by pchRage

[Motomouse]

The next AMD GPUs will probably not need a new PSU, the nvidia GPUs are not available right now. So it does not hurt to wait a few days to make an informed decision. :-)

 

 

What is your bottleneck depends on your settings. Just choose your bottleneck ;-)

 

Are you running 90hz mode and motion smoothing on your valve index already?

Edited October 16, 2020 by Motomouse

[pchRage]

I agree Motomouse. this is probably Nov/Dec/Jan timeline :-)

[eatthis]

If its possible to increase the OC a bit maybe 5.0Ghz, its virtually no difference between your CPU and *any* other new when playing DCS. If you domt do other games, there really is no need or only a slight, very slight difference if you get a CPU that go beyond 5.0Ghz.

I have a 9900KS, clocked to 5.2Ghz, and Those 4% can be seen in measured data when tweaking but I think if I notice it during gaming it is mostly that I want to believe I notice it. ( that said, CPU clock speed is currently the only weapon that can be used when the CPU is limiting DCS.

 

You can get a win in other games and other software with a new computer build but for DCS I would have tweaked the overclock as far possible. If needed get a better cooling solution for the CPU. After that, put the rest of the money on the graphics card.

 

clock speed is part of it (i have a 7700k at 5ghz) but ipc matters too. think of ghz as rpm and ipc as torque. between the 2 you get bhp and in cpu you get fps (sort of)

i dont know if theres a standard measurement for ipc and id love to know how the 7700k stacks agaisnt the new 5800x and 5900x

[Motomouse]

7700k vs 5600x

466 vs 604 Cinebench15 single core

77% vs 100%

 

 

(75% vs 100% for 5800x, 5800x not worth it in my opinion)

[pchRage]

if there's something else i can change with cpu to bump past 4.8 let me know. i posted that screenshot of the voltages, but I'm novice on which setting to change/safe/etc etc

[Motomouse]

Are you using tacview? If so, try it without tacview to increase your FPS near airports.

[stormrider]

As you already noticed, the higher the resolution, the higher the amount of pixels that needs to be rendered and therefore, the higher the need for better GPU and the less CPUs tend to stand out. People like to think that "bottleneck" is something fixed, set in stone and always bring up synthetic benchmarks to prove their points. It's not. The one thing to consider about DCS, is that its an old obsolete engine and doesn't make full use of today's CPU capacity and features, therefore given the situation, the bottleneck can easily and very quickly shift back to the CPU, even at higher res. In particular, the biggest culprit is the AI. Scenarios with heavy enough AI will bring even next-gen CPUs+GPUs to their knees.

 

You should make the test yourself. Create a scenario with no AI, test it and adjust the graphics quality until you reached your system's optimum quality vs performance, then progressively add in more and more AI, ground units, moving ground units, structures and effects while measuring the performance hit and making graphic settings compromises. Then its up to you to decide if you need a better system. But have in mind that until DCS remain a single core engine there are no CPUs+GPUs today that will free you from compromises, so perhaps you should think in terms of adjusting your expectations according to the size of your pocket.

 

 

My opinion is that you don't need a new system and you can always try it with a new GPU first.

Edited October 16, 2020 by stormridersp

[Gunnars Driver]

7700k vs 5600x

466 vs 604 Cinebench15 single core

77% vs 100%

 

 

(75% vs 100% for 5800x, 5800x not worth it in my opinion)

 

While having used cinebench and other measuring softwares, I havent read or learned the whole story about what instructions it use.

 

When comparing new hardware its common to take in account new fancy instructions that are more effective and give more performance per clock cycle. But, for this rating to be ”true” the software or game used need to use these instructions to be as effective.

 

If in fact using software that do not use those fance instructions, the advertised gain in computing power isnt there.

I havent checked any facts but I have a slight feeling that DCS lacks the ability to use a lot of the modern instructions. If this is true the gain advertised wont be.

 

My guess is that clock speed still is paramount to DCS.

[Motomouse]

Cinebench single core is a quite good indicator for gaming performance

 

for example

i3770k vs 9700k

70FPS vs 100FPS

60% vs 100% Cinebench 15 single core

Edited October 16, 2020 by Motomouse

[pchRage]

Thanks all for feedback!

[Thor_H]

You can see if you have a bottleneck here:

https://pc-builds.com/calculator/

[SneakyBastd]

Definitely get a 3080.

 

I have a 7700K@5ghz, 32GB 3600 and just upgraded from 1080Ti to 3080. Exactly what you are considering. Do it, get a 3080. It made a huge difference in VR. CPU and GPU frametimes are now mostly the same. Obviously it changes in different situations, but they match well.

 

My 7700K gets 520 single core in Cinebench R20. AMDs new CPUs will better that by about 20%, but it's not enough to justify an upgrade yet for me. I'll wait for 5nm and see how that goes.

[Motomouse]

I'd "assume" I should have CPU running at 80-90% like the GPU...

 

No, because DCS does not use all cores of your CPU fully.

[eaglecash867]

I definitely agree with everybody saying you should upgrade your GPU, mostly because its an upgrade you'll need to do anyway, and you'll be able to use it on your current rig, as well as any rig you build in the future. When I had my 5960X rig, I started off with a 980ti. When the 1080ti became available, I bought one of those, and the VR performance in DCS was like night and day. When I built a new rig with the 8700k in it, I didn't notice much performance increase at all. That being said, when I upgraded from the 1080ti to 2080ti on the 8700k, I didn't notice much of a performance increase either. I think upgrading your GPU at this point is the most future-proof solution.

[pchRage]

Definitely get a 3080.

 

I have a 7700K@5ghz, 32GB 3600 and just upgraded from 1080Ti to 3080. Exactly what you are considering. Do it, get a 3080. It made a huge difference in VR. CPU and GPU frametimes are now mostly the same. Obviously it changes in different situations, but they match well.

 

My 7700K gets 520 single core in Cinebench R20. AMDs new CPUs will better that by about 20%, but it's not enough to justify an upgrade yet for me. I'll wait for 5nm and see how that goes.

 

 

 

 

What did you adjust to get to 5GHz?

[Gunnars Driver]

What did you adjust to get to 5GHz?

 

I started overclocking in the 90’s.

 

A good Overclock takes a little time.

You should start with making sure your cooling is up to it. What cooler do you use?

 

There is no standard settings for overclocking.

First, different motherboards wendors have different names for the same thing, and between different chipset it differs despite the same vendor.

 

Its not that hard though. Most 7700K can do 5.0Ghz.

 

You need to increase the voltage, and for this there some different ways to do this.

Theres also a voltage compensation you should set.

 

What motherboard do you have, full name?

We might be able to link to a guide for your mobo.

What cooling ?

[pchRage]

MSI Z270 GAMING M5

Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO

[Gunnars Driver]

MSI Z270 GAMING M5

Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO

 

Good.

 

I’ll check that up and be back.