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Al Dhafra ILS setup incorrect


rurounijones

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What is the logic that DCS uses to determine the active runway? Is it generic or do individual airfields have different logic?

 

We were flying on Persian Gulf with the wind 010 and 2m/s which, based on wind, should mean Runwas 31L/R are active. This is what the humans ATCs were using, it is what DATIS and OverlordBot were reporting.

 

However the in-game airfield ILS was only active on runways 13. Is this a bug or does DCS use more than just wind heading to determine the active.

 

Man it sure would be nice to have an `Airfield.getActiveRunways` or `Airfield.getActiveRunwayHeading` API


Edited by rurounijones
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It would be nice if you did some testing yourself. Was it only on one airfield? Which one? Was it only on Persian Gulf, or did you see it on other maps as well? You can answer your own question with minimal effort.

 

One thing to bear in mind, some airfields are one-way, for example I think Nalchik, regardless of wind direction you always takeoff/approach the same directions (no turn around at the far end). Some due to cities etc are the same (Sochi, I think? Maybe Gudauta? You takeoff toward and land from the sea). You can often see this visually by there only being skid marks on one end.

 

Aside from the above, generally wind direction is the primary determinant.


Edited by zhukov032186

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Hey rurounijones,

 

Its probably a little early to call this a bug. I've not tested this in-depth myself but Zhukov is an experienced guy so I suspect the expected behaviour is that the active runway is determined by wind direction.

 

It may be that its always set to the same direction, or there is a bug with that particular airfield. Can you try to replicate this issue with other wind directions and other airfields? If it seems widespread we can try and get the attention of the DCS team for their take on it.

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Afair the wind direction matters only if wind speed is over 6 m/s. And yes, some airfields are one-directional but definitely not these big 2-lanes.

 

Check here:

https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=500

Maybe there's some current bug regarding ILS on specific airfield.

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  • ED Team

Active run way is determined by the wind, and it only needs a slight wind to change in DCS

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It would be nice if you did some testing yourself. Was it only on one airfield? Which one? Was it only on Persian Gulf, or did you see it on other maps as well? You can answer your own question with minimal effort.

 

Unless we know the underlying logic of how airfields' active runways are determined (including exceptions) then there is nothing we can test since we don't know what we are supposed to be asserting, hence my question. The best we could do is come up with (possibly inaccurate) assumptions, black box test on those and hope that the assumptions are correct and submit trackfiles. If those assumptions are not correct then that is needlessly wasted time.

 

However, since BigNewy has since stated

 

Active run way is determined by the wind, and it only needs a slight wind to change in DCS

 

The logic is allegedly very simple and can now be tested.


Edited by rurounijones
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Active run way is determined by the wind, and it only needs a slight wind to change in DCS

 

Hi BG,

Nellis seems to disregard the wind direction thingy.

 

I've also been on approach many times in accordance to wind direction only to be waved off because aircraft are taking off towards me with the wind (not a breeze) on their tails. :)

 

Needs work I'm afraid. Also, reference to runway numbers in accordance.

 

Cheers

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Hi BG,

Nellis seems to disregard the wind direction thingy.

 

I've also been on approach many times in accordance to wind direction only to be waved off because aircraft are taking off towards me with the wind (not a breeze) on their tails. :)

 

Needs work I'm afraid. Also, reference to runway numbers in accordance.

 

Cheers

 

 

SOP at Nellis is to use 3L/3R for departure when carrying live ordinance.

 

Preferred recovery runways are 21R/21L.

 

Been out there in real life with a pretty good breeze out of the SE and they still used 3L/3R when headed to the ranges.

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We did some testing and it looks like there are two separate issues at Al-Dhafra (We did not check any other airfields)

 

Issue 1 : ILS 109.10 and 111.10 are mounted incorrectly.

* The ILS for 31 (109.10) is mounted backwards (It provides ILS information for Runway 13).

* The ILS for runway 13 (111.10) is mounted backwards *and* there is something wrong it that causes the glidelope info to not appear until you are basically over the midpoint of the runway. (It is mounted upside-down?)

 

Issue 2: Incorrect ILS selected with low wind. (Incorrect based on the statement by BIGNEWY above at least in that it is determined by wind direction and requires very little wind).

 

When the wind is set to 190 @ 2m/s in the mission editor, and therefore the headwind is 010, then runway 31 should be in use. However the ILS channel (111.10) is active (as well as the above issue of being mounted incorrectly). When setting the wind to 10m/s it appears to select the correct ILS channel (againt, mounted incorrectly).

 

Trackfiles attached for the following weather conditions:

 

 

Wind 190 @ 2m/s

Wind 190 @ 10m/s

Wind 130 @ 10m/s

Wind 310 @ 10m/s

ILS-track-files.zip


Edited by rurounijones
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  • ED Team
We did some testing and it looks like there are two separate issues at Al-Dhafra (We did not check any other airfields)

 

Issue 1 : ILS 109.10 and 111.10 are mounted incorrectly.

* The ILS for 31 (109.10) is mounted backwards (It provides ILS information for Runway 13).

* The ILS for runway 13 (111.10) is mounted backwards *and* there is something wrong it that causes the glidelope info to not appear until you are basically over the midpoint of the runway. (It is mounted upside-down?)

 

Issue 2: Incorrect ILS selected with low wind. (Incorrect based on the statement by BIGNEWY above at least in that it is determined by wind direction and requires very little wind).

 

When the wind is set to 190 @ 2m/s in the mission editor, and therefore the headwind is 010, then runway 31 should be in use. However the ILS channel (111.10) is active (as well as the above issue of being mounted incorrectly). When setting the wind to 10m/s it appears to select the correct ILS channel (againt, mounted incorrectly).

 

Trackfiles attached for the following weather conditions:

 

 

Wind 190 @ 2m/s

Wind 190 @ 10m/s

Wind 130 @ 10m/s

Wind 310 @ 10m/s

 

Thanks I have reported the problems at Al-Dhafra there is conflicting information between in game and the editor so something is not right.

 

thanks

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Thanks BIGNEWY.

 

 

If possible could you also confirm the logic of active runway selection? Based on what other people have said in this thread it is not as simple as wind direction. (Or there are bugs elsewhere).

 

 

Having this information, along with any custom logic (Khasab for example) will help us make sure things like DATIS and OverlordBot can stay in-sync with DCS.

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or do individual airfields have different logic?

Some do yes, for example Nellis, Batumi and Khasab.

The former only allows landing on runway 21 because of the proximity of the city: apparently there is an agreement between the major of Las Vegas and the Air Force that prohibits landing aircraft to approach on the city side, for safety reasons and probably also noise levels (military aircraft don't have the same noise restrictions on their engine design etc that civilian aircraft do).

The situation is similar on the other 2: safety reasons because of proximity of mountains.

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Hi

 

As Elysian Angel mentions there are some runways that have restrictions to use a specific runway, otherwise all active runways are determined by the wind direction.

 

I have reported the Al-Dhafra issue, I think it would be best if you have a potential bug report with a track replay in a new thread, keep it to one issue per thread and we will take a look.

 

thank you

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