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Huey Autopilot - Best way to maintain heading?


Adam

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Hi,

 

Just looking for some advise. Using the Huey "Autopilot" (co-pilot), I'm noticing that the helicopter is drifting slowly to the right, to a point where it could be 45° off course after 10-15 minutes.

 

I know this isn't an autopilot (the Huey doesn't have one) - it's the co-pilot taking control. From what I can tell there's no option to maintain heading.

 

When I set the autopilot it looks like I'm heading in a solid direction but I'm guessing that I'm in a very slight turn to the right.

 

Just wondering if there's any tips/tricks to ensure that I am flying dead on a heading and not drifting right or left when I set the autopilot?

 

I look at the TC ball and it looks to be in the center, and the DG/compass doesn't appear to be rotating (but at the slow rate it turns I know I'm not going to see it visually) - so just wondering if there's any other instruments I'm missing or tricks to maintain a good solid heading when switching over to copilot.

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I think most people will say fly it yourself.

The only time I use the autopilot is when I'm tuning the ADF in flight.

And even then rarely.

 

 

I don't tend to hold a heading in helicopters. I use the compass to find a landmark, on the bearing I want and then fly towards that. when i get there I find a new landmark on the bearing this avoids drift with crosswinds etc.

how i was taught to orienteer on foot with a compass. so you don't trip over everything constantly looking at the compass.

you check the compass when you need it.

not all the time.

and you are not stuck to following it like a slave.

the destination is what counts and not the route.

a longer route that is easy to follow is usually better than a shorter route that is not.

 

why helicopter pilots hate flying over open water. and will go a longer route to avoid it.

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Hmm.. OK. I'll have to keep working on trying to figure it out myself. I'm not sure if it's a bug that should be reported - just trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong that people know what first.

 

Thanks for the reply

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I reported this years ago. Nothing ever got done.:(

 

Oh dang - it is a bug then, and not one they're interested in fixing then.

 

Thanks for letting me know - I won't waste my time.

 

Maybe it's time to buy the Gazelle. ;)

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Oh dang - it is a bug then, and not one they're interested in fixing then.

 

Thanks for letting me know - I won't waste my time.

 

Maybe it's time to buy the Gazelle. ;)

I wouldn't call it a bug. It was never, for what I know, intended for long cruise flights, that is part of your job. "He" (the CP flying for you) is only there to assist when you, the guy paying money to fly it in a sim yourself (in contrast to paying money for the sim to fly it for you, i.e. paying money to be merely a passenger), need to let go of the controls for a limited time. Be it fiddle with the radios, jump into CP or gunners positions to fire off some rounds, or just grab a sip of coffee from the cup on the table while it's still hot. Just have it reported as a bug doesn't make it a bug.

But yes, I can understand those of you who see it like that. Long flights can be a bit tedious and boring, but that's just part of the game.

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Hi,

 

Using the Huey "Autopilot" (co-pilot), I'm noticing that the helicopter is drifting slowly to the right, to a point where it could be 45° off course after 10-15 minutes.

 

Never used that feature.

 

 

Do you have the pedals set or trimmed ball centered ?

 

If you dont have and the AP / Left pilot not corrects it, it might cause heading drift.

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Never used that feature.

 

 

Do you have the pedals set or trimmed ball centered ?

 

If you dont have and the AP / Left pilot not corrects it, it might cause heading drift.

 

Thanks GD. That's what I thought.

 

When flying I do set the ball in centre, but I guess the question is where is exact center. As this happens over a period of 10 minutes or so - it's possible that we're not going to be able to see with our eye exactly where 'perfect trim' is setup if this is the actual cause.

 

I was kinda hoping for a "Yeah - it's a balance ball / trim issue, and the way I get around it is yyyy" - but looks like that's not the case and there's no solution - I just need to either find a way to deal with it or get a different helicopter that I can trust to stay on course for those sort of requirements.

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  • 4 weeks later...

While we wait for multicrew (and even after for SP uses), it would be nice if the "autopilot," and by this I mean the dead weight sitting in the left seat, could competently fly the aircraft.

 

The Huey doesn't have an autopilot, nor does it have an autohover. It does have a first officer. When I activate the "autopilot" while in the hover, for example, it holds the hover well for about 10 seconds, then the controls start to drift and it goes into a tail low backwards movement, about the most dangerous and uncomfortable place to be in when hovering at 4ft. I've even noticed it on the ground; I have a stick with no springs, so when I need to take my hands off the stick, I just activate the autopilot with the stick centered, and he holds the controls in the center - most of the time. Sometimes it will drift until the stick is full forward and right, often resulting in mast bumping and destroying the rotor. I think it's the same problem as the heading drift.

 

I guess all I'm asking for is a basic simulation of the other pilot, so when I set the aircraft up in a hover, or on a certain heading and speed, I can hand him control and let him fly it while I work radios, run a mission, etc. There's nothing unrealistic about this; on the contrary, it's exactly how military aircrews work. One guy flies (usually the FO) while the other guy navigates, works radios, and runs the mission.

 

In it's most simplistic implementation, I would fly the aircraft and just ask the other guy to hold that heading/altitude/airspeed/hover for brief moments when I need to do something else. More advanced stuff would be cool (like terrain following, etc) but even just this simple flying would be a huge help!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Have you ever asked yourself why in a helicopter the Pilot seat is on the RIGHT side, whereas in fixed planes (and cars...) it is on the left?

Ok, the reason is that you fly a helicopter always with a light turn to the left which means that the pilot sits in the most forward position....

If you observe a helicopter fly a course it will always take a heading a tad to the left of that course (reason is the well known rotor torque of course....).

So, it is absolutely normal that a helo will tend to get off course to the right unless you make that slight correction with the rudder to keep it on course

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On 12/6/2020 at 10:09 AM, Scorpio47 said:

Have you ever asked yourself why in a helicopter the Pilot seat is on the RIGHT side, whereas in fixed planes (and cars...) it is on the left?

Ok, the reason is that you fly a helicopter always with a light turn to the left which means that the pilot sits in the most forward position....

If you observe a helicopter fly a course it will always take a heading a tad to the left of that course (reason is the well known rotor torque of course....).

So, it is absolutely normal that a helo will tend to get off course to the right unless you make that slight correction with the rudder to keep it on course

 

Actually, the reason is because when you single pilot a helicopter (as most civvie helicopters are flown), you need to keep your right hand on the cyclic at all times, especially in smaller helicopters without force trim or autopilots. Sitting on the right allows you to use your left (collective) hand to tune radios and manipulate switches on the center console and overhead.  If you sat in the left as airplanes do, you'd have to take your hand off the cyclic to do this.

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On 12/7/2020 at 2:33 PM, Tanuki44 said:

Are you sure this is the reason?
In the Gazelle, the pilot is also on the right, but the rotor torque is the opposite of the Huey ...

True, for traditional reasons, the rotor in the Gazelle generates right turning tendency however.... so you have to counteract by pressing right rudder...

19 hours ago, Sandman1330 said:

 

Actually, the reason is because when you single pilot a helicopter (as most civvie helicopters are flown), you need to keep your right hand on the cyclic at all times, especially in smaller helicopters without force trim or autopilots. Sitting on the right allows you to use your left (collective) hand to tune radios and manipulate switches on the center console and overhead.  If you sat in the left as airplanes do, you'd have to take your hand off the cyclic to do this.

Or do it with the other hand, like the Airbus pilot who sits on the left and  has the flight stick also on the left side, whereas the FO sits in the right seat and uses his right  hand for the flight stick..... It is all a question of how you are trained, just like stick versus yoke for instance.... 😀

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2 hours ago, Scorpio47 said:

Or do it with the other hand, like the Airbus pilot who sits on the left and  has the flight stick also on the left side, whereas the FO sits in the right seat and uses his right  hand for the flight stick..... It is all a question of how you are trained, just like stick versus yoke for instance.... 😀

 

That's if the stick is designed to be operated comfortably with the left hand. Most fighter sticks are not, look at the TM Warthog. Not sure what it's like with the Huey. The Airbus sticks are designed for left and right hand on the respective side as well btw.

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The actual reason that the Pilot-in-Command sits on the right in a helicopter is because when Igor Sikorsky invented the helicopter, and was flying it for testing and sales, he sat on the right. It has nothing to do with the direction of torque or the cyclic stick. Look at the Robinson R22 helicopters. They don’t even have a cyclic stick.

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On 12/9/2020 at 7:20 AM, Scorpio47 said:

True, for traditional reasons, the rotor in the Gazelle generates right turning tendency however.... so you have to counteract by pressing right rudder...

Or do it with the other hand, like the Airbus pilot who sits on the left and  has the flight stick also on the left side, whereas the FO sits in the right seat and uses his right  hand for the flight stick..... It is all a question of how you are trained, just like stick versus yoke for instance.... 😀

 

You can let go of an airbus stick and the FBW will prevent it from going into an unusual attitude on you. Even a non-FBW airplane will maintain attitude if properly trimmed.

 

Ever flown a helicopter without a force trim (all early helicopters and still most light helicopters)?  The cyclic has 0 resistance, and will flop to the side the second you stop holding it. Believe me, you don’t want to take your hand off of it like you could in any airplane 🙂

 

And as for flying it with your other hand, I’ve never tried it myself, and I don’t think I’d want to, especially in a hover. The controls require such finesse that I wouldn’t want to go against thousands of hours of muscle memory by using the other hand, it would be like learning to hover all over again!
 

 

20 hours ago, Balzarog said:

The actual reason that the Pilot-in-Command sits on the right in a helicopter is because when Igor Sikorsky invented the helicopter, and was flying it for testing and sales, he sat on the right. It has nothing to do with the direction of torque or the cyclic stick. Look at the Robinson R22 helicopters. They don’t even have a cyclic stick.


The Robinson does have a cyclic, it’s just a throw-over center mounted type. It still works the same.


Edited by Sandman1330

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6 hours ago, Sandman1330 said:

 

You can let go of an airbus stick and the FBW will prevent it from going into an unusual attitude on you. Even a non-FBW airplane will maintain attitude if properly trimmed.

 

Ever flown a helicopter without a force trim (all early helicopters and still most light helicopters)?  The cyclic has 0 resistance, and will flop to the side the second you stop holding it. Believe me, you don’t want to take your hand off of it like you could in any airplane 🙂

 

And as for flying it with your other hand, I’ve never tried it myself, and I don’t think I’d want to, especially in a hover. The controls require such finesse that I wouldn’t want to go against thousands of hours of muscle memory by using the other hand, it would be like learning to hover all over again!
 

 


The Robinson does have a cyclic, it’s just a throw-over center mounted type. It still works the same.

I’d consider the Robinson cyclic a swing-bar that controls the cyclic, not a cyclic stick that other posters are referring to as the reason for the Pilot in Command (PIC) being the pilot on the right. The Copilot uses the same hands for the same functions as the PIC. It’s just a bit more awkward for the Copilot to set frequencies and such if the PIC is incapacitated.

When all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!

 

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On 12/6/2020 at 5:09 PM, Scorpio47 said:

Have you ever asked yourself why in a helicopter the Pilot seat is on the RIGHT side, whereas in fixed planes (and cars...) it is on the left?

Ok, the reason is that you fly a helicopter always with a light turn to the left which means that the pilot sits in the most forward position....

If you observe a helicopter fly a course it will always take a heading a tad to the left of that course (reason is the well known rotor torque of course....).

So, it is absolutely normal that a helo will tend to get off course to the right unless you make that slight correction with the rudder to keep it on course

Hate to disappoint you but the UK, AUS and i think JAPAN all use right hand drive cars lol 

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7 hours ago, Balzarog said:

I’d consider the Robinson cyclic a swing-bar that controls the cyclic, not a cyclic stick that other posters are referring to as the reason for the Pilot in Command (PIC) being the pilot on the right. The Copilot uses the same hands for the same functions as the PIC. It’s just a bit more awkward for the Copilot to set frequencies and such if the PIC is incapacitated.


I’m not sure I follow your train of thought. Are you saying that someone flying from the left seat of a Robinson uses different hands or positioning than someone in the left seat of a helo with a standard cyclic, like a B206 or Huey?

 

What I’m trying to say is that the left seat pilot would have to use his right hand to change radios (and therefore let go of the cyclic), while a right seat pilot can keep his right hand on the cyclic and do all the rest with his left. This would be no different with a standard cyclic arrangement as it would be in a Robinson...


Edited by Sandman1330

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14 minutes ago, Sandman1330 said:


I’m not sure I follow your train of thought. Are you saying that someone flying from the left seat of a Robinson uses different hands or positioning than someone in the left seat of a helo with a standard cyclic, like a B206 or Huey?

 

What I’m trying to say is that the left seat pilot would have to use his right hand to change radios (and therefore let go of the cyclic), while a right seat pilot can keep his right hand on the cyclic and do all the rest with his left. This would be no different with a standard cyclic arrangement as it would be in a Robinson...

 

14 minutes ago, Sandman1330 said:


I’m not sure I follow your train of thought. Are you saying that someone flying from the left seat of a Robinson uses different hands or positioning than someone in the left seat of a helo with a standard cyclic, like a B206 or Huey?

 

What I’m trying to say is that the left seat pilot would have to use his right hand to change radios (and therefore let go of the cyclic), while a right seat pilot can keep his right hand on the cyclic and do all the rest with his left. This would be no different with a standard cyclic arrangement as it would be in a Robinson...

No, what I’m saying is that the copilot would hold the cyclic with his left hand if the pilot was incapacitated, and he needed to tune radios. I was in a Marine Light Helicopter squadron (HML-771) in the 1970s in the UH-1E and was in training as a crew chief. When the pilot passed command to the copilot, the copilot used his left hand on the cyclic when he needed to tune. We used to train for many different scenarios in the USMC, such as shooting with our off side even though it wasn’t as effective as with our “strong” side.

When all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!

 

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9 hours ago, Balzarog said:

 

No, what I’m saying is that the copilot would hold the cyclic with his left hand if the pilot was incapacitated, and he needed to tune radios. I was in a Marine Light Helicopter squadron (HML-771) in the 1970s in the UH-1E and was in training as a crew chief. When the pilot passed command to the copilot, the copilot used his left hand on the cyclic when he needed to tune. We used to train for many different scenarios in the USMC, such as shooting with our off side even though it wasn’t as effective as with our “strong” side.


I see your point, and agree. I’m a military helicopter pilot myself so of course we train for emergencies such as these.

 

I still stand by my original point though - it’s much easier to do it all from the right, and that’s why single pilot operations are on the right! (Incidentally our PIC usually sits in the left, as he spends more time running the mission and working the comms than actually flying the aircraft, the FO gets to do that 🙂)

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While interesting - I doubt any of the above should be a factor as to why the UH-1 can't maintain heading with AP/Copilot.

 

If a copilot can't maintain a basic course heading, speed and altitude because of the attributes of a helicopter, he needs to be pushed out the door.

 

It seems as though the copilot "autopilot" is supposed to maintain what the pilot sets up (direction, speed and altitude). But it's faulty, and saying it's as designed and not a bug is just ignoring the problem. 

 

Would anyone IRL expect a copilot not to be able to hold course regardless of which seat they sit in, or which way the torque rotates? 

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