Jump to content

[REPORTED]Issues with AGM-65E and TGP


Recommended Posts

This has been marked and [CAN NOT REPRODUCE].

 

Unfortunately, it was all too easy to reproduce for me, and I cannot NOT reproduce it!

 

I did not realize that this had been reported as a bug, and was asking if this was working as intended here:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=289156

 

As can be seen, it depends on map, version, and some other conditions.

 

This is why I haven’t been able to produce a track. It always happens until the moment i try to record a track.

Asus ROG Maximus X Apex

Core I7 8700K @ 5.3Ghz / Liquid cooled (Kraken X62)

32GB DDR4 RAM 3200ghz

EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC

Acer X5280HK G-SYNC 4K Monitor

ASUS Essence STX II Sound Card

Samsung 960 Pro M.2 PCI-E SSD 2TB

Windows 10 Professional 64

Latest drivers

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have posted a number of TRK files in this thread:

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4527701

 

 

and this one:

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=289113

 

 

All my TRK are in the STABLE version except maybe one where noted.

 

Have reproduced the issue and also had occasions where the issue is not present. Very odd. My last post with 2 TRKs from the Persian Gulf show both things going on, but the most telling thing is when running in and switching between MAV DDI and TPOD DDI you can clearly see the MAV locking and unlocking based on the position of the TDC. I tend to see the issue more in the PG than Caucasus map. Also it SEEMED that missions created or edited BEFORE the latest patch went into the STABLE game allowed the TDC in the MAV DDI to work, and missions created or updated AFTER the patch did not, but my latest PG TRKs were with a mission that was edited and saved just today.

Link to post
Share on other sites
OK, done that. Problem is..... the mavericks worked fine !!!! Aaaaaahhhh.

Well, allmost. I made a SinglePlayer track, in which you can see the 2nd MAV won't fire. I am so hoping now, that it was because of a bug and not that I did something wrong...

 

The track is too big to attach apparently, so get it here: http://www.marctelkamp.nl/SP.trk

 

OK, so I had a look at your track after my trip, and there 2 things. Firstly, if I take control, I have no problem locking onto the 2nd target at all. Secondly, your track is so zoomed in on the HUD, that it is very difficult to see what you are doing. Having said that, I can't see anything obviously wrong, so I have no idea where that leaves us. Don't know why I have no issues and you do.

 

Can you post another track that is less zoomed in and focussed on the HUD so we can see more easily what you are doing?

Intel i9 10900K 5.1GHz · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z490-F · Acer 4K 32" XB321HK · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 10 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · TrackIR5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil WarBRD Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM2 · Virpil Alpha Grip · HP Reverb G2

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, not only I have issues. I read more people in this thread who confirm it.

But there is more, although not so obvious...

 

Last time my MAV-E couldn't find the laser of a JTAC.

Last time my MAV-F wouldn't lock either. Erratically locking and unlocking. I have seen this bug reported in another post.

 

But I just noticed these things. I didn't test them thouroughly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is difficult to understand here is that most people are not having this issue. Otherwise it would be all over the forum. I personally cannot reproduce your issue either on my own missions, or on your track. It woks absolutely fine for me if I do the 100% correct procedure.

Have you tried my track earlier in this thread? Does that work OK for you?

Intel i9 10900K 5.1GHz · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z490-F · Acer 4K 32" XB321HK · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 10 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · TrackIR5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil WarBRD Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM2 · Virpil Alpha Grip · HP Reverb G2

Link to post
Share on other sites
What is difficult to understand here is that most people are not having this issue. Otherwise it would be all over the forum. I personally cannot reproduce your issue either on my own missions, or on your track. It woks absolutely fine for me if I do the 100% correct procedure.

Have you tried my track earlier in this thread? Does that work OK for you?

 

Didn't know if you were replying to me or to Marc-T-NL, but there are several threads referencing this issue. I have TRKs in them. It is intermittent, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Check the TRK below which I also posted in the thread below. Near the end of the TRK you can see me running in with a target locked and laser firing. Switching between DDI's (MAV and FLIR) causes the laser lock (SOLID BOX) to appear and disappear based on the position of the TDC, only reliably locked when in the FLIR DDI.

 

If it makes a difference, these were done with the current STABLE version not OB. I have tried to isolate the issue but can't quite pin it down. Some of my MP buddies have seen the same thing. By no means is this completely solid, BUT I have observed it to happen MORE on the PG map than the Caucasus and MORE with Missions that were created or edited AFTER the current STABLE patch was put in. It worked PERFECTLY fine for me on an old mission in the Caucasus reliably.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4527701

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=289113

Recluse_MAVE_PG2.trk


Edited by Recluse
Link to post
Share on other sites

Tests:

 

MAV caged, FLIR designated diamond, FLIR selected, laser armed, WR press: No response

MAV uncaged, FLIR designated (diamond), FLIR selected, laser armed, WR press: After delay missile fires and tracks

MAV uncaged, FLIR undesignated (cross), FLIR selected, laser armed, WR press: No response

 

MAV uncaged, FLIR designated (diamond), MAV selected, laser armed, WR press: After delay missile fires and tracks

MAV caged, FLIR designated (diamond), MAV selected, laser armed, WR press: No response

 

MAV uncaged and previously designated to look a different direction than FLIR, FLIR designated (diamond), FLIR selected, laser armed, WR press: Laser fires, no track or launch

Above but slowly slew active laser spot toward MAV direction: When FLIR within ~1-1.5 divisions angle on MAV to MAV LOS missile tracks and fires

 

Notable behavior: when MAV is selected (SCS left) for the first time missile uncages without pressing uncage button. However if missile is caged by button then this will not happen. The auto uncage behavior will not happen again until missile spends some time in undesignated and uncaged state simultaneously and then recaged.

 

Notable behavior 2: when target designation is made missile LOS will not move to this direction until MAV page is selected

 

Notable behavior 3: when MAV is caged laser will not attempt to fire on WR press

 

Notable behavior 4: The "small cross" designations in A or P TRK FLIR designate the missile LOS away from the center of the FLIR which is the laser spot. In extreme cases this can cause the missile to look far enough away from the laser spot to fail to track.

---

 

Taking all of the above into consideration: It is necessary for the missile to be uncaged in order to fire the laser (by WR button) or weapon. To this end it is necessary for MAV to be SOI at least briefly once. Usually this happens when SOI shifts to MAV from any other screen and a target has been designated. This auto uncage will not happen without a designated target or if the caging has been manually commanded and not reset back to enable auto uncage again.

 

Once the missile is uncaged it does not matter which screen is SOI. WR press will fire the laser and if missile tracks it will also fire. Missile will track only if it is pointing close to laser spot. Since missile pointing is only updated when MAV is SOI it is a significant possibility that it is not.

 

My recommendations are to first uncage the missile, then confirm the target designation, then return to MAV SOI so that missile LOS will point at designated target. If using A or P TRK FLIR do not designate with small cross except at center of the screen. If using P TRK be aware that target designation is static and target designation nor missile pre-aim will follow a moving target even if it is tracked on FLIR. When engaging a moving target designate with small cross at target or slightly ahead, MAV SOI to update LOS, and fire without delay.


Edited by Frederf
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Didn't know if you were replying to me or to Marc-T-NL, but there are several threads referencing this issue. I have TRKs in them. It is intermittent, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Check the TRK below which I also posted in the thread below. Near the end of the TRK you can see me running in with a target locked and laser firing. Switching between DDI's (MAV and FLIR) causes the laser lock (SOLID BOX) to appear and disappear based on the position of the TDC, only reliably locked when in the FLIR DDI.

 

If it makes a difference, these were done with the current STABLE version not OB. I have tried to isolate the issue but can't quite pin it down. Some of my MP buddies have seen the same thing. By no means is this completely solid, BUT I have observed it to happen MORE on the PG map than the Caucasus and MORE with Missions that were created or edited AFTER the current STABLE patch was put in. It worked PERFECTLY fine for me on an old mission in the Caucasus reliably.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4527701

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=289113

 

Sorry, but you are not doing the procedure correctly in your track. It's the same issue as discussed on page 1 I think. On your first target you get it right as you have the little cross inside the parallel bars in point track mode. The next 3 or 4 attempts - I then gave up - you are NOT doing a TDC depress and therefore you don't have the little cross.

It will never work unless you do TDC depress in point track mode.

If I take over in your track, I have no issues at all in hitting the target and locking the MAV every time. Look at my track on page 1.

Intel i9 10900K 5.1GHz · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z490-F · Acer 4K 32" XB321HK · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 10 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · TrackIR5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil WarBRD Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM2 · Virpil Alpha Grip · HP Reverb G2

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Mea Culpa! I just re-watched my TRK and Took control before seeing your post and I noted exactly what you described above. When I watched it, I thought "Hey I didn't do a TDC depress!". I did, however do a TDC depress INITIALLY on the target before going to Point Track, so I thought that the Designation, as far as the LASER spot (and hence the MAV-E seeker) should still be workable (for a stationary target). Obviously not, Just now I went back and tried it with either a second TDC depress on POINT Track or NO point track and just an initial TDC depress and it does seem to work. Interestingly, when NOT doing a TDC Depress on a POINT TRACK , the MAV does find the laser when the TDC is in the FLIR page.

 

I still wonder why, conceptually, if the Maverick Seeker seems to lock on just fine to the pre-point track designated point, as indicated by the triangle superimposed on the diamond for a stationary target, I'm not sure why it isn't finding the laser based on what sensor has the TDC on it.

 

Nonetheless, problem solved...


Edited by Recluse
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

I have just reported an issue where the laser mav seeker wanders if cycled to a waypoint that has not been set, or undesignated by cycling waypoints. It maybe related, something to bare in mind.

 

thanks

smallCATPILOT.PNG.04bbece1b27ff1b2c193b174ec410fc0.PNG

Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

Windows 10 Pro x64, NVIDIA MSI RTX 2080Ti VENTUS GP, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 32GB DDR @3000, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2

Link to post
Share on other sites
Shall I just totally de-install DCS and reinstall it again ? Is there a way to save my HOTAS-bindings ?

 

Your bindings are unaffected by a reinstall. They are in your Saved Games folder. However, just in case, make a backup or rename the folder C:\Users\xxxx\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\Input to be safe.

I am not convinced that a reinstall will make any difference to your issue which I still believe is down to users not following the correct procedures. As you know from above, I have no problem making it all work as it should when taking over in your track.

Intel i9 10900K 5.1GHz · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z490-F · Acer 4K 32" XB321HK · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 10 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · TrackIR5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil WarBRD Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM2 · Virpil Alpha Grip · HP Reverb G2

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, procdure shoulld be pretty forward:

 

0] Master arm on, AG mode, set lasercodes corresponding

1] Find enemy in TPOD

2] Set TPOD to area-lock or vehicle-lock

3] Convert lock to target (TDC depress)

4] Switch to MAV-display

5] Uncage (seeker finds target)

6] Arm laser

7] Shoot while seeker is within circle on the display

8] Keep target lased until very dead

 

There shouldn't be more to it. It should not be neccessary to select the TPOD-display again (which is a workaround that actually works).

 

Tonight I will test again. But think about the tracks I made: If I play the track in an older DCS-version, it works fine. If I play the VERY SAME TRACK in the newest version, it won't lock...

Link to post
Share on other sites

So, tonight on the PG map, I successfully hit 4/4 moving targets each and every time in point track mode .... as long as I switched to TGP page before firing.

 

I saw the "X" on the Mav page immediately turn to a square the moment I assigned the TDC to the TGP, and I could launch immediately after.

 

Conversely, while on the Mav page, the "X" remained and "X", and could not fire.

 

Each and every time.

 

Absolutely reliable, predictable, consistent, and reproducible.

 

Is it possible for a test to look at this again? PLEASE? Perhaps using point track as a test case (the original post only mentioned Area Track).

Link to post
Share on other sites
So, tonight on the PG map, I successfully hit 4/4 moving targets each and every time in point track mode .... as long as I switched to TGP page before firing.

 

I saw the "X" on the Mav page immediately turn to a square the moment I assigned the TDC to the TGP, and I could launch immediately after.

 

Conversely, while on the Mav page, the "X" remained and "X", and could not fire.

 

Each and every time.

 

Absolutely reliable, predictable, consistent, and reproducible.

 

Is it possible for a test to look at this again? PLEASE? Perhaps using point track as a test case (the original post only mentioned Area Track).

 

As others, including myself, are not seeing this issue, if you want to get some more attention from ED, then post a track.

Intel i9 10900K 5.1GHz · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z490-F · Acer 4K 32" XB321HK · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 10 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · TrackIR5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil WarBRD Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM2 · Virpil Alpha Grip · HP Reverb G2

Link to post
Share on other sites
So, tonight on the PG map, I successfully hit 4/4 moving targets each and every time in point track mode .... as long as I switched to TGP page before firing.

 

I saw the "X" on the Mav page immediately turn to a square the moment I assigned the TDC to the TGP, and I could launch immediately after.

 

Conversely, while on the Mav page, the "X" remained and "X", and could not fire.

 

Each and every time.

 

Absolutely reliable, predictable, consistent, and reproducible.

 

Is it possible for a test to look at this again? PLEASE? Perhaps using point track as a test case (the original post only mentioned Area Track).

 

Hi,

 

MAKE SURE you are hitting TDC DEPRESS After getting the Point Track. You will see the little offset cursor cross in the middle of the target box. THEN it seems to work. I was omitting this step. It still seems like a bug to me for stationary targets since you have ALREADY designated the point, and then just refined the track as Point track, but I will accept the extra press as necessary for MOVERS and just accept it for Stationary targets as well. It similarly doesn't make sense that switching TDC to the other page makes such a difference (even with a STATIONARY) target to the distance for a lock, but it seems that it is AS DESIGNED, so I stopped fighting about it, and just did the extra TDC depress.

 

Try the extra TDC depress after POINT TRACKING the mover and see what happens

 

Actually the other night I had the same issue AGAIN even with the additional TDC depress on a stationary target (oil rig structure)..but it seems to work for all other types of target.

 

I swore I was done with this, but here is one more TRK:

 

- Running in. VVSLV target Oil Rig. First, no point TRK just Designation (I did an additional TDC Depress after slewing the TPOD). Uncage Mave, Pickle.. no lock other than one intermittent flash. Move TDC to FLIR page. IMMEDIATE LOCK.

-Go to POINT TRACK and TDC DEPRESS to see the OFFSET CURSOR CROSS. Go to MAV page. NO LOCK... Move to FLIR page IMMEDIATE LOCK. Back to MAV page. NO LOCK.. but finally at about 3 miles, the MAV seeker locks with the TDC there.

 

Until this Oil Rig object, I did not have this issue with any other (usually vehicle or ship) targets when assuring either a DESIGNATION without POINT TRACK or a POINT TRACK with TDC depress.

Recluse_MAVE_TDC3.trk


Edited by Recluse
Link to post
Share on other sites

I watched your first track. What point is that you are trying to make with it? Sorry, not clear to me.

EDIT: I get it now. I'll look at the other.

Intel i9 10900K 5.1GHz · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z490-F · Acer 4K 32" XB321HK · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 10 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · TrackIR5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil WarBRD Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM2 · Virpil Alpha Grip · HP Reverb G2

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so is the issue that the MAV won't lock when it is SOI, but when you switch to TPOD as SOI it does? I mean, this may be normal behaviour. We probably need someone from ED to comment on that.

Intel i9 10900K 5.1GHz · MSI Gaming X Trio RTX 3090 · ASUS ROG STRIX Z490-F · Acer 4K 32" XB321HK · Samsung 970 500Gb M.2 NVMe · 2 x Samsung 850 Evo 1Tb · 2Tb HDD · 32Gb Corsair Vengance 3000MHz DDR4 · Windows 10 · Thrustmaster TPR Pedals · TrackIR5 · Thrustmaster F/A-18 Hornet Grip · Virpil WarBRD Base · Virpil Throttle MT-50 CM2 · Virpil Alpha Grip · HP Reverb G2

Link to post
Share on other sites
OK, so is the issue that the MAV won't lock when it is SOI, but when you switch to TPOD as SOI it does? I mean, this may be normal behaviour. We probably need someone from ED to comment on that.

 

Yes, as I and others have stated on this thread -- all parameters are correct: laser armed and firing, MAV seeks is correctly the laser (X in the right place), etc., but simply will not lock till and only until TPOD is SOI. You cannot fire the Maverick while the Mav is SOI.

 

Whether this is correct or not, I do not know.

 

BUT:

 

(1) This clearly was not the case a few patches ago, as many videos/tutorials written then do not mention or (in the case of video) show the SOI being TPOD when firing. This includes Wag's academic series as well as tutorials by third-parties (RedKite and others).

(2) No documentation mentions needing to set SOI to TPOD for firing.

 

More to the point:

 

(3) On this thread and others, many, including yourself, say that this is not the case for them -- so there is inconsistency.

(4) Some on this thread say that they sometimes find this is the case and sometimes not.

(5) The tester (or somebody) has declared this as "CAN NOT REPRODUCE".

 

So, IF it is correct behavior then it appears that lots of people, including yourself and the ED tester, have broken installations. Either way, the inconsistency itself seems to me an issue.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As one who has also experienced this intermittently, I have also observed a corollary behavior that I regard as a BUG...

 

- Even when I can correctly obtain a lock with TDC in the MAV page, it occurs at about 8 miles. Fine

- IF however, I leave/change the TDC to the FLIR page, lock occurs immediately when MAV shows IN RANGE, about 10 miles.

- IN RANGE, LOCKED, FIRE! MAVERICK often falls short.. so things are BUGGED with regard to Range indicator and/or LASER firing time.

 

1st TRK: All good at 8 nm, with TDC in MAV page but also notice that earlier there is a short "flash" of the lock in the MAV DDI that reverts back to the X

2nd TRK: (Sorry, my TRACKIR was not behaving, so view is distorted): Immediately switch to FLIR. FIRE at about 9-10 miles. MAV falls short AND laser seems to stop firing before impact. (Didn't quite capture that here as I was following the Missile, but I've seen it in the past). I did a POINT TRACK just to show the TDC designation with Offset Cursor marked.

 

I didn't have my TrackIR on for the first track and noticed that when I played it back with TIR active, it only showed the HUD. I could use the keyboard commands that I used originally to unlock the view and then TRACKIR could pan around during REPLAY (without taking control)

F18_MAVE.trk

F18_MAVE_Short.trk

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have this issue as well, mav won't lock until I sensor select back to TPOD.

 

With Master ARM on

A/G mode selected

LTD/R switch ARM

MAV-E SOI

Press weapon release once (you will get LTD/R indication on FLIR display)

MAV-E will uncage and search for laser

Once LKD indication on HUD, press weapon release again to fire the weapon.

 

Shack.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x400 gig SSD drives (one soley for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

With Master ARM on

A/G mode selected

LTD/R switch ARM

MAV-E SOI

Press weapon release once (you will get LTD/R indication on FLIR display)

MAV-E will uncage and search for laser

Once LKD indication on HUD, press weapon release again to fire the weapon.

 

Shack.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

Doesn't work for some folks some of the time, and doesn't work for other folks any of the time.

 

Even with LTD/R flashing, and everything else within parameters (incl. seeker X in the right place) maverick will never see the laser.

 

Need to assign TDC back to TPOD for maverick to see the laser, lock, and launch.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...