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Question regarding the coolie switch logic


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Hi,

 

Snoopy/experts - can you explain the SOI changing logic using the coolie switch?

In the F-16 switching the SOI (or the 'active performed MFD') is faster and easier - pressing short DMS down. In the A10 its a long press to the side while the short DMS down swaps the screens.

1. Is the 'swap' function is really that useful in real life?

2. What's the logic of a LONG press to the side instead of a short press down?

 

It's interesting to know if it's simply an historical decision or there is a real benefit to that in term of 'flow'?

 

Thanks.

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Hi,

 

Snoopy/experts - can you explain the SOI changing logic using the coolie switch?

In the F-16 switching the SOI (or the 'active performed MFD') is faster and easier - pressing short DMS down. In the A10 its a long press to the side while the short DMS down swaps the screens.

1. Is the 'swap' function is really that useful in real life?

2. What's the logic of a LONG press to the side instead of a short press down?

 

It's interesting to know if it's simply an historical decision or there is a real benefit to that in term of 'flow'?

 

Thanks.

 

The logic of coolie long is quite simple - to make SOI of left/right screen quickly to operate sensor without removing your (hand) from HOTAS.

 

I use coolie switch aft all the time to switch left and right MFD to maintain hand on stick and operate the MFD (what used to be on right MFD, which is typically TGP). Then coolie switch aft again to revert back (most likely to MAV screen) employ weapons.

 

Also, DMSAS never switches screens on the MFD’s for A10C.

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x400 gig SSD drives (one soley for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Also, if you coolie switch aft short - it flips display layouts of MFDs, so if you need to switch left on the right MFD - rather than cycling coolie switch right three times, you can coolie switch aft, coolie switch left, then have the screen you desired.

 

“It’s a feel thing.”

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x400 gig SSD drives (one soley for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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Hi,

I've been thinking about it, too!

(Bear in mind though that I'm a noob and have only had some 50 hours in A-10C and only tried the "II" version yesterday for the first time).

 

Ad 1. No, 'swap screens' feature is next to useless, at least for me. I've used it maybe twice during those 50 hrs of my flying. Perhaps it can be of more use in A-10C II, but let's wait and see (overlay on HMD from TGP is supposedly possible only when the latter is on the right MFCD vs. only the right MFCD displays MAV page by default, IIRC, so - at least theoretically - you may now have a sensible reason to swap screens).

Anyway, consider this: pressing AND HOLDING the coolie down brings up DSMS page on both MFCD's temporarily, i.e. as long as you hold it. That's a nice and useful feature, but due to it you can't assign anything else to coolie down long. Coolie down short may be utilized for something else, though - and they picked 'swap screens'.

 

Ad 2. I don't own the F-16, so I'm not sure how you can select between two MFCD's and the HUD (and now the HMD in "Tank Killer") as your SOI with just one button, but regardless of that - the story behind the side-long-press must have been this: if they chose the long press for switching through all the MFCD pages (4 or 5 of them) that would take eons for the pilot to just glimpse at another page and quickly return to the page he was viewing previously, so it seems reasonable to use short presses for this. Thus, for selecting a SOI you need to press long, but you always do it only once at a time (not 4 or 5 times in a row). I guess that's the reason behind it.

However, if you ask me, I hate it! :) It happens to me too often that, especially in the heat of the action, I kinda 'loose grip' of the coolie and only 'tap' it left or right instead of pressing and properly holding it, so I switch the page on the MFCD instead of making it the SOI - at the least appropriate moment! But hey - newbies should practice instead of complaining, so I just try to give the coolie a firm push each time I need to make MFCD the SOI... perhaps one day I'll get good at it :)

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Hi guys... I don't think screen swap as a routine procedure... In commercial aviation MFDs reversion (or swapping) is not that common... it's used when one of the MFDs are failing. So my two cents on this one... use screen swap when they malfunction and coolie hat for selecting them as SOI.

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Hi,

I've been thinking about it, too!

(Bear in mind though that I'm a noob and have only had some 50 hours in A-10C and only tried the "II" version yesterday for the first time).

 

Ad 1. No, 'swap screens' feature is next to useless, at least for me. I've used it maybe twice during those 50 hrs of my flying. Perhaps it can be of more use in A-10C II, but let's wait and see (overlay on HMD from TGP is supposedly possible only when the latter is on the right MFCD vs. only the right MFCD displays MAV page by default, IIRC, so - at least theoretically - you may now have a sensible reason to swap screens).

Anyway, consider this: pressing AND HOLDING the coolie down brings up DSMS page on both MFCD's temporarily, i.e. as long as you hold it. That's a nice and useful feature, but due to it you can't assign anything else to coolie down long. Coolie down short may be utilized for something else, though - and they picked 'swap screens'.

 

Ad 2. I don't own the F-16, so I'm not sure how you can select between two MFCD's and the HUD (and now the HMD in "Tank Killer") as your SOI with just one button, but regardless of that - the story behind the side-long-press must have been this: if they chose the long press for switching through all the MFCD pages (4 or 5 of them) that would take eons for the pilot to just glimpse at another page and quickly return to the page he was viewing previously, so it seems reasonable to use short presses for this. Thus, for selecting a SOI you need to press long, but you always do it only once at a time (not 4 or 5 times in a row). I guess that's the reason behind it.

However, if you ask me, I hate it! :) It happens to me too often that, especially in the heat of the action, I kinda 'loose grip' of the coolie and only 'tap' it left or right instead of pressing and properly holding it, so I switch the page on the MFCD instead of making it the SOI - at the least appropriate moment! But hey - newbies should practice instead of complaining, so I just try to give the coolie a firm push each time I need to make MFCD the SOI... perhaps one day I'll get good at it :)

 

For the 'swap' function - it might be useful in real life because it might be better to remove the hand from the throttle to touch an MFCD instead of removing the hand from the stick. As a simmer - i guess it's impossible to 'imagine the scenario' and the benefit it might bring.

It would be superb if a real pilot/SME could give his two cents in this regard.

 

regarding the the Ad 2- I agree with your theory. Overall It make sense.

 

In the F-16 you switch SOI by pressing DMS down (could have been collie switch down for the A10), changing the pages on the MFD with DMS right short for the right MFD (it will move one page at a time) and DMS left short for the left MFD (again, it will move one page at a time). Those could be collie right/left short. DMS up puts the HUD as SOI. Overall - much better in my opinion.

The collie down long bringing the DSMS is really a nice touch. I use it to verify what ordinance i still got left on the plane without going out from the TAD screen.

 

I guess that after a while when HOTAAS become muscle memory it becomes pity to change the HOTAS config... Although if it was done as in the F-16 - it would be better in my opinion

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it's used when one of the MFDs are failing. So my two cents on this one... use screen swap when they malfunction and coolie hat for selecting them as SOI.

 

I might remember it wrong, but the few times I had a single MFCD failing, the swap didn't work for me and I had to manually set up the remaining one to show the pages I was interested in.

 

Anyway, I believe actual pilots will show the TGP page on the side the pod is mounted under the wing. Swapping the MFCDs around with a single flick of a button might come in handy then. Though I'm not sure if they'd set up their MFCDs ahead of time with a data cartridge.

 

I rarely use the swap function, but I don't mind that it's there. Not really missing anything in terms of HOTAS in the A-10 (other than my muscle memory, with the recent changes :smartass:)

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With the MFCD changes in the new module, I use the swap function at the beginning of every mission. I've just gotten so accustomed to having my TGP on the left MFCD, and MAV on the right, that I can't deal with them being swapped. :pilotfly:

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I almost never use the swap function und find it very annoying to use long presses to switch SOI between left and right MFD. Especially when switching between TGP and MAV. Furthermore it is inconsistent with the short press to make HUD SOI. I am cool with it if it is that way in reality, but it definitely is not the best solution.


Edited by Hive
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I have zero inconsistencies with coolie switch forward/up for HUD SOI. With the addition of the HMCS, it can be easy to make a mistake of making HMCS SOI with an additional coolie switch forward/up I suppose.

 

Personally, the CSLL / CSRL to make L/R MFD SOI has also never been an issue either. You can just “say” SOI in your head when CSLL / CSRL and be confident that the depressed time will be long enough to make SOI rather than accidentally switching what is being displayed. Or you can always simply depress the OSB button for TGP/MAV/TAD to make SOI again - if coolie switch is really that much of a dislike for the operator.

 

Different strokes for different folks.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x400 gig SSD drives (one soley for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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I almost never use the swap function und find it very annoying to use long presses to switch SOI between left and right MFD. Especially when switching between TGP and MAV. Furthermore it is inconsistent with the short press to make HUD SOI. I am cool with it if it is that way in reality, but it definitely is not the best solution.

 

Coolie Hat Short Left and Right are used for changing pages on the MFCDs, which is why you have the "Long" function to set SOI. Its great to be able to change pages on the MFCDs without having to take your hands off the throttle and stick.

 

The HUD SOI function I think is inconsistent now because it is now more or less a "toggle" between HUD SOI and HMCS SOI. Just haven't figured out how to tell which one is SOI at any given moment. I'm sure it'll just be a matter of getting used to the new systems introduced in the new module.

 

The Coolie Hat functions in the DCS A-10C are exactly as laid out in the TO-1 for the real-world aircraft. So, that's the logic they're going by. :thumbup:

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My main issue is that I change my SOI very often, so I want it to be as quick as possible. A long press takes forever. Everybody has different preferences, I guess... But the inconsistency between short press for HUD and long press for the MFCDs cannot be denied - whether you are fine with it or not.

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My main issue is that I change my SOI very often, so I want it to be as quick as possible. A long press takes forever. Everybody has different preferences, I guess... But the inconsistency between short press for HUD and long press for the MFCDs cannot be denied - whether you are fine with it or not.

 

Its how it is in the real jet though. Its not a DCS problem.

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My main issue is that I change my SOI very often, so I want it to be as quick as possible. A long press takes forever.

 

It takes less than 0.5 seconds, so it really doesn’t take forever. I also change SOI frequently, it’s all about having a flow.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x400 gig SSD drives (one soley for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs

 

Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, FC3. Modules: Combined Arms, Supercarrier. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

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If I'm a designer on the A-10 HOTAS, and I have to have one switch which needs to both cycle left and right MFD pages and assign SOI to any screen or HUD. I can set long press to one of those two sets of functions. What's more annoying for the pilots? Long press each time I want to change to the next page can be forever if you're cycling over to a Maverick after locking a target with the TGP, for example. So I've gotta use short press for page cycle. Short press for SOI would be great too, but if I can only use long press for one thing, page cycle is much better than SOI.

 

 

Every design, be it aircraft design or user interface design, is a series of compromises. Is the A-10's HOTAS perfect? No. But it can do a LOT without touching the screens, more than most aircraft.

 

 

I do love the way the F-16 does it though. DMS short down to toggle SOI between each MFD, DMS up to set SOI to HUD (and up multiple times would no doubt be a fine way to toggle HUD and HMD on other aircraft), and DMS left/right short to cycle pages.

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Change your SOIs 100x and it adds up. But no point in discussing that. If you're fine with that, great. I just wanted to share my feelings and they are as legitimate. I don't want it to be changed if it is that way in reality.


Edited by Hive
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I like the fact that coolie long left or right is used to set SOI instead of F-16 system because that means one less button I need to map on my already limited joystick.

Do not expect fairness.

The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone.

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Change your SOIs 100x and it adds up. But no point in discussing that. If you're fine with that, great. I just wanted to share my feelings and they are as legitimate. I don't want it to be changed if it is that way in reality.

 

No, the command being a long press doesn't bother me. I can go along with anything if it's like that in the real plane. I have to question if the real Hog uses an 8 way switch for the collie switch. My problem is being able to straight across for left-right commands. Especially, when the angle of the switch changes with throttle position. Sometimes I don't go straight across and hit a blank spot on the 8 way switch if i'm a little high or low.

Buzz

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Things might be easier if the coolie switch was a 4 way switch instead of an 8 way hat. I've never liked the way it feels.

Amen to that! It would be nice if you could somehow disable the "diagonal" buttons in a 8-way POV, but you can't.

A few weeks ago I came up with a trick for that, but actually I haven't tried it with the coolie (haven't thought of that so far!), but with the trim hat (it's also an 8-way hat/POV on the TM Warthog Joystick).

I noticed that sometimes I can't trim ailerons. It turned out that the position of my hand on the stick is such that sometimes I press - say - up+left ("course" 315 on the hat) instead of just left (course 270). Or up+right, down+right instead of just right etc.

What I also noticed was that I NEVER mix pitch trim with left/right - I always press straight up or down.

Solution: I assigned up+left AND left AND down+left for "left wing down" trim, and similarily for the right wing down. Works a charm :)

Perhaps - once you (or I, for that matter) figure out what mistakes on the coolie your fingers do - the same trick may be used for the coolie? But it only works if one "axis" on the POV/hat (i.e. up/down or left/right) is always pressed correctly. If it's a mess in all directions, nothing can be done, I think.

Besides, I have the impression that the coolie hat on TM Warthog Throttle is somehow turned or "skewed", don't know how to say it. Or simply I have "skewed" hands, that's possible, too ;)

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You can disable it if you are willing to use Target. This is the only thing I use Target for. The eight way hats used to drive me nuts. I would much prefer to not use Target, but this has much improved my use of hats on the Warthog.

 

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No, the command being a long press doesn't bother me. I can go along with anything if it's like that in the real plane. I have to question if the real Hog uses an 8 way switch for the collie switch. My problem is being able to straight across for left-right commands. Especially, when the angle of the switch changes with throttle position. Sometimes I don't go straight across and hit a blank spot on the 8 way switch if i'm a little high or low.

 

Make duplicate entries for left at left, left-up and left-down positions. Same for right side. That solved all my problems with 8 way hats.


Edited by =4c=Nikola

Do not expect fairness.

The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone.

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