APKWS for Huey

[RodBorza]

Hello all,

 

I could just ask for someone to do it, but I think that wouldn't be fair.

Anyway, how can one, in this case me, a total noob start to mod. Is there a manual, a SDK, a website...

 

What I want to do is to use the APKWS in the Huey.

Using the helo as a launching platform and the guidance made by a JTAC or another aircraft.

 

Thanks.

Edited October 5, 2020 by RodBorza
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[=OPS=Slider]

I'm not familiar with the Huey, but I believe it doesn't use any laser guided weapons in DCS. This might be an issue when it comes to laser code, unless you can set it for the rockets on the ground. Then adding it for the Huey is not a big deal. Small edit in lua file and it should be ready to go. I can try it and report back in a moment.

 

EDIT: Well, I haven't even found the file needed to modify, to add the APKWS. Therefore I think we're done at this point. Unless someone can manage to even add APKWS for the Huey.

Edited October 6, 2020 by =OPS=Slider1709

[BonerCat]

You can basicly put any munition on any plane in DCS, and in some cases, AI will be able to use it (I once got an AI F-16 firing sparrows. They were pretty shit, but it worked), but in overwhelming majority of cases, the player will not be able to use that weapon, due to lacking integration to the cockpit system

Because the APKWS to the Huey rockets is basicly what a GBU-12 is to the Mk-82, so it *might* work, but i wouldnt bet on it

 

You're gonna have to find the file that has all the default loadouts for the plane, and add one in there

You'll have to copy the code for the munition, and paste it onto the station

Some lua editing, not that much

good luck!

[ams999]

I could add the APKWS to the Huey but I can't get them to fire. Unless someone knows how to get them to fire it's just eye candy, unfortunately.

I also could add the 3x APKWS launcher which looks quite funny and reaches a bit below the surface when on the ground (same goes for Hellfires from the AH-64D, which also won't fire).

Edited October 7, 2020 by ams999

[ams999]

If anyone wants to have a go at it, I took the APKWS code from

 

\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\CoreMods\aircraft\A-10\A-10C_2.lua

 

and put it in

 

\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Scripts\Database\helicopters\AB-212ASW.lua

[RodBorza]

If anyone wants to have a go at it, I took the APKWS code from

 

\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\CoreMods\aircraft\A-10\A-10C_2.lua

 

and put it in

 

\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Scripts\Database\helicopters\AB-212ASW.lua

 

Thanks.

 

I'll try and see what can be done.

[apogeo]

Going to revive this topic to see if anybody has any idea how to accomplish this. I can't find any file where UH-1H loadouts would be...

[ACS_Dev]

It is not currently possible with a drag-and-drop (or more accurately, copy/paste) approach. APKWS are built on rocket bodies but due to how ED's code handles missiles vs/bombs they won't fire. This is because unlike the regular hydras, ED made it an A/G missile and thus it cannot interface correctly with the Huey. This is the case with every A/G missile I have tried on an un-supported platform. They won't show up on MFDs and won't fire.

This is an unrealistic limitation. In the war in Ukraine the APKWS has been seen mounted on trucks and used as rocket artillery, so it must be able to lock on to a laser after launch. The question is why ED would spend any time, no matter how simple the solution (make firing a weapon possible on certain platforms even with no guidance or interface) may or may not be, to make this a reality. You would need an offboard solution for lasing and making that compatible with the in-game JTAC (who is not coded to expect hueys with APKWS) is a big ask. The most likely result would be the capability to launch APKWS from basically any rocket-carrying platform but requiring the usage of manual mission scripting or a human CA operator. It would certainly be very cool but ED is unlikely to see it as worth it when a small fraction of the already small MP playerbase would be using it.

If I had my way we would be able to dumb-fire APKWS from the MI-8, MI-24, UH-1 (especially because they don't have to worry about the wrong weapon name on an MFD and there isn't much of a FLCS to compensate for different weight) and maybe the apache (the aforementioned problems come into play and you have now opened an entire can of worms) and have them be lased off-board. An even cooler feature would be for the door gunners on these birds to given the CA JTAC UI for client operators, allowing them to work as FACs for APKWS helos as well as completely unrelated aircraft. Like the previous idea though this is a pipe dream because ED would never do something that benefits so few people and makes no money. We can only hope.

 

[SkateZilla]

On 9/7/2023 at 6:34 PM, ACS_Dev said:

It is not currently possible with a drag-and-drop (or more accurately, copy/paste) approach. APKWS are built on rocket bodies but due to how ED's code handles missiles vs/bombs they won't fire. This is because unlike the regular hydras, ED made it an A/G missile and thus it cannot interface correctly with the Huey. This is the case with every A/G missile I have tried on an un-supported platform. They won't show up on MFDs and won't fire.

This is an unrealistic limitation. In the war in Ukraine the APKWS has been seen mounted on trucks and used as rocket artillery, so it must be able to lock on to a laser after launch. The question is why ED would spend any time, no matter how simple the solution (make firing a weapon possible on certain platforms even with no guidance or interface) may or may not be, to make this a reality. You would need an offboard solution for lasing and making that compatible with the in-game JTAC (who is not coded to expect hueys with APKWS) is a big ask. The most likely result would be the capability to launch APKWS from basically any rocket-carrying platform but requiring the usage of manual mission scripting or a human CA operator. It would certainly be very cool but ED is unlikely to see it as worth it when a small fraction of the already small MP playerbase would be using it.

If I had my way we would be able to dumb-fire APKWS from the MI-8, MI-24, UH-1 (especially because they don't have to worry about the wrong weapon name on an MFD and there isn't much of a FLCS to compensate for different weight) and maybe the apache (the aforementioned problems come into play and you have now opened an entire can of worms) and have them be lased off-board. An even cooler feature would be for the door gunners on these birds to given the CA JTAC UI for client operators, allowing them to work as FACs for APKWS helos as well as completely unrelated aircraft. Like the previous idea though this is a pipe dream because ED would never do something that benefits so few people and makes no money. We can only hope.

 

What's the Difference between a Rocket and a Missile? 
According to everyone I know in the Navy, Guidance.

APKWS Takes a unguided rocket, and gives it guidance, thus becoming a missile.

older aircraft it was simply adding the guidance section, and firing them like normal rockets.
newer aircraft SMS & DFCS need to know the weight of these items, the Guidance section alone adds 30lbs, x however many are loaded into the launcher x however many launchers are loaded.

[ACS_Dev]

I may not have been clear enough regarding what I was trying to get at with my post.

Yes, the APKWS rocket is technically a missile because it is guided. In DCS this prevents it from being fired from platforms that don't have simplistic onboard laser designators. This is where my problem with how DCS handles it lies. The missile does not have this limitation IRL. It's fired by the contact at the back of the launcher, just like any other rocket, one of the biggest selling points it has. DCS does not care about this fact. It demands a guidance solution prior to firing and that guidance solution must be from onboard the launching aircraft. Again, if this were a real limitation, the whole ground-launched APKWS system wouldn't be a thing. We should be able to launch it from anything configured to run Hydras regardless of whether it has a solution or not, and then guide it onto the target with an offboard designator.

This is a systematic limitation, albeit a very narrow one given how unique APKWS is. Ideally DCS would be able to handle it like a rocket that can also guide on things, allowing us to launch it from most aircraft without a guidance solution. This would be particularly nice for Ukrainian Hinds, Huey, Hip, even Apache. Given how entrenched the class system is it would likely be an unrealistic ask.

 

[SkateZilla]

15 minutes ago, ACS_Dev said:

I may not have been clear enough regarding what I was trying to get at with my post.

Yes, the APKWS rocket is technically a missile because it is guided. In DCS this prevents it from being fired from platforms that don't have simplistic onboard laser designators. This is where my problem with how DCS handles it lies. The missile does not have this limitation IRL. It's fired by the contact at the back of the launcher, just like any other rocket, one of the biggest selling points it has. DCS does not care about this fact. It demands a guidance solution prior to firing and that guidance solution must be from onboard the launching aircraft. Again, if this were a real limitation, the whole ground-launched APKWS system wouldn't be a thing. We should be able to launch it from anything configured to run Hydras regardless of whether it has a solution or not, and then guide it onto the target with an offboard designator.

This is a systematic limitation, albeit a very narrow one given how unique APKWS is. Ideally DCS would be able to handle it like a rocket that can also guide on things, allowing us to launch it from most aircraft without a guidance solution. This would be particularly nice for Ukrainian Hinds, Huey, Hip, even Apache. Given how entrenched the class system is it would likely be an unrealistic ask.

 

APKWS Just Needs to have the ability for it to detect any lasers set to the freq. from any source, and fire.

[ACS_Dev]

https://www.l3harris.com/sites/default/files/2023-05/L3Harris_Vampire_SellSheet_2023.pdf
No, not even requiring a guidance solution at launch. UAV targeting for indirect fire is listed on the spec sheet from L3harris. We should be able to lau-mod it to Hinds, loft them at the target and have an offboard platform sending a laser that the rocket will capture after launch. This is my whole point. The missile does not care at all if it has a guidance solution prior to launch. If you hit the fire button on a helicopter carrying APKWS in its hydra pods it will fire. In DCS it won't.