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The Su-35 is too classifide to see it in DCS in the next 40 years. ED even cant do a FF old MiG-29 cuz of russian law. Maybe one day by a thired dev team.

 

Edit: I am very suprised that they will do the MiG-29 now.


Edited by Mike_Romeo
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This game is for simulation of NATO war games (F-16 vs F-14 etc.) only. Do not buy anything if you wish to play as redfor, with the exception of the KA-50 module.

 

Take this warning from someone who has played for many years and many thousand hours. In this sim, you will not see any authentic combat between NATO and Russian/Chinese forces, and you will never be able to fly modern russian and chinese planes.

 

Check again in 2 years. But given EDs priorities, chances are that it will not be any different.

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20 years after it left the activ service in the russian aur force.

not necessarily so

 

Su-17M4 are long gone off the air force (about 30 years already) - still classified

same for Mig-27K

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I would prefer the Su-24, it's the only strike aircraft I really, really care about. It's old, still in service and still there is no way anyone will even attempt to make one.

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This game is for simulation of NATO war games (F-16 vs F-14 etc.) only. Do not buy anything if you wish to play as redfor, with the exception of the KA-50 module.

 

Take this warning from someone who has played for many years and many thousand hours. In this sim, you will not see any authentic combat between NATO and Russian/Chinese forces, and you will never be able to fly modern russian and chinese planes.

...

^^ THIS

 

But we have at least the CHENGDU FC1/JF-17, a great multi role plane


Edited by sylkhan
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...used by the Pakistanis. :) It is really nice, but feels more like a Chinese F-16.

 

I have a feeling that the Russian team mostly flies helicopters, and US team fixed wing. :)

 

Su-17M4 are long gone off the air force (about 30 years already) - still classified

same for Mig-27K

Funnily enough, Su-17M4 is actually in use by a NATO country - Poland is still flying a bunch of them.

 

I wonder if TV-guided missiles might be the reason. Both Su-17M4 and MiG-27K can use them, and this is one of their distinguishing features.

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This game is for simulation of NATO war games (F-16 vs F-14 etc.) only. Do not buy anything if you wish to play as redfor, with the exception of the KA-50 module.

 

Take this warning from someone who has played for many years and many thousand hours. In this sim, you will not see any authentic combat between NATO and Russian/Chinese forces, and you will never be able to fly modern russian and chinese planes.

 

Check again in 2 years. But given EDs priorities, chances are that it will not be any different.

 

 

Simply BS!

 

 

 

The 21 and older stuff is there, the MiG 23 in development, the Mi-24 on the front door. You want something new? You won't get the Su-34, the 35 and all the others for the same reason you won't see a F-35, a F-22 or fancy Block 70/72 Vipers. Please direct your complains to the Kremlin and the Pentagon.

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The problem is, I suppose, that there's an era mismatch of sorts. There are no good opponents for the Viper and Hornet on the Russian side. Yes, there are older Russian birds, but on that side, there's nothing except the Saberjet and the F-5. I suppose you could do Tomcat vs. MiG-23, once the latter comes out.

 

That said, the US planes we have are early 2000s models, at which time Russia was only just starting to recover from the Yeltsin era economic slump. They would've been stuck with the majority of their planes being 90s era at that time. ED supposedly wants to do the MiG-29A at some point.

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Simply BS!

 

 

 

The 21 and older stuff is there, the MiG 23 in development, the Mi-24 on the front door. You want something new? You won't get the Su-34, the 35 and all the others for the same reason you won't see a F-35, a F-22 or fancy Block 70/72 Vipers. Please direct your complains to the Kremlin and the Pentagon.

But the older stuff is hardly a match for even 90s variants of our DCS aircraft. I dont think anyone here is realistically expecting an Su-35 or smth. Simply a FF Flanker from the 90s w/ properly modeled missile's would be a HUGE improvement over what we have RN.

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That said, the US planes we have are early 2000s models, at which time Russia was only just starting to recover from the Yeltsin era economic slump. They would've been stuck with the majority of their planes being 90s era at that time.

 

Thats the point, you can't blame ED for a slow down in russian aircraft development during the 90's :music_whistling:

 

BTW apart from the Viper, A-10C and our Hornet, most of the stuff like F-5, F-14A&B, F-15C is more than a couple of years older. If we ever see a AH64A it will also be probably also be a model from the past century.

 

Regarding old russian jets, Mover had an interesting interview with "Bio" Baranek where he told that their primary concern where MiG-17 and 21's. They saw the 23 more as some kind of a joke from the red side.

 

That said, Zhen answered his question himself. Even old russian jets (like early SU-24) are still classified and it would be some kind of suicidal act for a russian company to reproduce such a plane against the governmental laws.

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But the older stuff is hardly a match for even 90s variants of our DCS aircraft. I dont think anyone here is realistically expecting an Su-35 or smth. Simply a FF Flanker from the 90s w/ properly modeled missile's would be a HUGE improvement over what we have RN.

 

You are right, missiles are another thing but as far as I know ED is reworking all of them. Regarding the flanker I would encourage you to search for some documentaries about the russian airforce in the 90's. Apart from their showcase models (25, 31) there was simply a lack of modern fighters and even training methods...

 

Maybe you just look into some minutes of this vid...

 

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You are right, missiles are another thing but as far as I know ED is reworking all of them. Regarding the flanker I would encourage you to search for some documentaries about the russian airforce in the 90's. Apart from their showcase models (25, 31) there was simply a lack of modern fighters and even training methods...

 

Maybe you just look into some minutes of this vid...

 

 

If it was just 90s equipment on the NATO side in DCS, there would be no problem.

 

The NATO planes in DCS arent from the 90s. The 120C7 is from mid 2000s, as is the AIM-9X. The versions of F-18 and F-16 are also from 2004 and 2007, some AG weapons that are coming are even newer.

 

There is plenty of equivalent equipment from the 2000s. Su-30MKI would be an excellent match for DCS NATO aircraft.

 

Su-27S in DCS from 1984 with missiles from no newer than 1987, is not. Neither are late 70s models of SA-15 and S-300, that are no match against 2010 SLAM-ER, 2000s JSOWs and 90s JDAMs. There once again, TOR M1 and S-300PMU would provide a realistic counterpart.

 

 

But its not going to happen. ED has abandoned the red side in DCS. Mi-24P belongs to a museum, its RWR is one of the first, if not the first the soviets ever developed back in the 60s. Compare that to a supposed modern Apache that is coming to DCS - absolute joke.

 

As i said, dont spend money in this simulator if you even want to shoot down russian aircraft - you will not find them here, even the AI has nothing, no modern SAM, no modern fighter. Only soviet dinosaurs.


Edited by Max1mus
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Simply a FF Flanker from the 90s w/ properly modeled missile's would be a HUGE improvement over what we have RN.

 

With how modern our mid to late 2000s F-16, F-18 and upcoming F-15E/Eurofighter are, no. ED has trapped themselves into a spot where they need to make a 2000s fighter like SU-30MKI - which they cant.

 

And as such, DCS will be for NATO pilots only. ED has long realized this and changed their priorities accordingly. There are plenty of examples: The Black Shark 3 update being cancelled, russian missiles not being reworked to new APIs while western ones are, not a single more modern SAM being added.

 

ED keeps trying to keep the redfor playerbase in, by making empty vague hints like the recent Chizh interview, where he says they are "looking into options". But the same Chizh has precisely said in a forum post that DCS will never have a full fidelity, modern Flanker.

 

In short, dont buy into this scam. If youre interested into red flag and fictitious NATO vs NATO combat, go ahead. But otherwise, your money can be spent better, especially these days.


Edited by Max1mus
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With how modern our mid to late 2000s F-16, F-18 and upcoming F-15E/Eurofighter are, no. ED has trapped themselves into a spot where they need to make a 2000s fighter like SU-30MKI - which they cant.

 

And as such, DCS will be for NATO pilots only. ED has long realized this and changed their priorities accordingly. There are plenty of examples: The Black Shark 3 update being cancelled, russian missiles not being reworked to new APIs while western ones are, not a single more modern SAM being added.

 

ED keeps trying to keep the redfor playerbase in, by making empty vague hints like the recent Chizh interview, where he says they are "looking into options". But the same Chizh has precisely said in a forum post that DCS will never have a full fidelity, modern Flanker.

 

In short, dont buy into this scam. If youre interested into red flag and fictitious NATO vs NATO combat, go ahead. But otherwise, your money can be spent better, especially these days.

 

 

Unfortunately this is the reality that comes with a combat simulator when the focus if full fidelity. Which I am not complaining about because it is what it is. It will have its pros and its cons.

 

That's why I roll my eyes every time I see someone complaining about there not being more REDFOR aircraft. Then when they learn that there is a limitation with making full fidelity aircraft they want to start adding FC3 level aircraft just to get something that looks like a Russian aircraft. But if they are going to go that route then they are better off with other flight combat games that already do that.

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Maybe someone could make modern Chinese or Indian variants of the Flanker? I mean obviously there is a huge demand for these aircraft, Eagle Dynamics can't make them for legal reasons but what about a 3rd party? Would that be possible?

 

(Oh as for the Hind, I don't care how old it is, this thing is a flying tank it's THE flying tank and as or even more iconic than the Apache)

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Maybe someone could make modern Chinese or Indian variants of the Flanker?

Su-30MKI is still developed and produced by a Russian aircraft producer - IRKUT

a part of them being assembled from kits in India's HAL, but I'm sure they're still heavily classified

 

and it's almost identical to the one we have in our air force - Su-30SM

 

China is another deal, they developed their own flanker variants and they go through a full production circle at home

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(Oh as for the Hind, I don't care how old it is, this thing is a flying tank it's THE flying tank and as or even more iconic than the Apache)

 

Mi-24G or Mi-35 are no less iconic. And they have an actual gunner position and are actually comparable to the planned modern Apache.


Edited by Max1mus
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Kh-29Ts are not classified

No, but perhaps some equipment used to employ them is. Some chairborne fool likely classified something like the resolution of the cockpit display used to cue the weapon, and now the whole cockpit is off limits.

Mi-24G or Mi-35 are no less iconic. And they have an actual gunner position and are actually comparable to the planned modern Apache.

The Mi-24P was selected specifically because of how good its 30mm cannon was. The ones you mentioned use a dinky minigun that actual Mi-24 crews decried as being only useful as ballast, or so the story goes. Infantry in the open was just about the only thing you could kill with it, anyway, and in DCS, that's not a common use case. If you want something comparable to the Apache, Mi-24VP at least has a proper cannon in the turret.


Edited by Dragon1-1
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The Mi-24P was selected specifically because of how good its 30mm cannon was. The ones you mentioned use a dinky minigun that actual Mi-24 crews decried as being only useful as ballast, or so the story goes. Infantry in the open was just about the only thing you could kill with it, anyway, and in DCS, that's not a common use case. If you want something comparable to the Apache, Mi-24VP at least has a proper cannon in the turret.

 

Mi-35s upgraded avionics and better anti tank missiles/guidance would be more comparable to an apache, as would be a Superhind. Mi-28 of course even more so. The only thing the soviet shitty old Mi-24P has going for it is the ability to carry troops, which might come in handy in dynamic campaigns.

 

But it wont do anything to solve the time frame disparity, it will just make the problem worse. More people flying around in these coffins while all of NATO is in late 2000s missile carriers.

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