Hornet HMD Crosshair

[CBStu]

Sorry, but that is not the answer. It’s not about repositioning your head, it’s about the positioning of the HMD crosshair relative to the ‘default’ view.

 

For example, in level flight say, we tend to look at the VVI which is roughly on the horizon. Now, that is higher up than the centre of the screen so we can see the DDIs. Switch on the HMD and you’ll see the crosshair is always in the screen centre, i.e. well below where the default tends to be.

 

See the various attachments above.

I agree. For me this has been enough of a mess I seldom use the HMD. With HMD on I note that if you are looking straight ahead you don't really see the HMD just the normal crosshair. If you hold your head perfectly unmoved up and down but turn a little to one side the HMD appears and it is substantially lower then the normal crosshair. 99% of the time were are banked over w/ the stick pulled back a bunch trying to get the crosshair on the enemy plane. So having the HMD lower than standard makes things even worse. Since the radar controlled gun aiming came out I haven't bothered w/ HMD at all.

[Fri13]

Reposition your head position to look straight and save it pressing R_ALT + keypad 0. It's a pretty easy fix.

 

Is there any means to change that keybinding for something else, like in HOTAS?

If course I could make a HOTAS to have that keybinding temporarily but wouldn't want to do that.

 

Reason to ask is that IMHO DCS should drop many of these functions from being only in keyboard, like "Press Space to continue" in tutorials and trainings. It should more likely be "Press Trigger to continue" and trigger would be captured waiting for that to happen, so you don't fire weapons if doing so.

[imacken]

I agree. For me this has been enough of a mess I seldom use the HMD. With HMD on I note that if you are looking straight ahead you don't really see the HMD just the normal crosshair. If you hold your head perfectly unmoved up and down but turn a little to one side the HMD appears and it is substantially lower then the normal crosshair. 99% of the time were are banked over w/ the stick pulled back a bunch trying to get the crosshair on the enemy plane. So having the HMD lower than standard makes things even worse. Since the radar controlled gun aiming came out I haven't bothered w/ HMD at all.

 

Exactly that. Although it's OK in VR, so not sure where the issue is.

[Topo]

To add to the confusion here, the HMD crosshairs are perfectly aligned with the VVI/horizon in VR. All 3 modules - A-10C II, Viper and Hornet - are all perfect.

 

So, I don't know what is going on with TIR.

 

Probably because in VR the pov is really related to your head position/orientation.

In the monitor (2D) the defautl POV is "forced" to look a bit down, to better read the instruments.

IMHO the HMD is correct as is; the default 2d initial view has to be raised a bit.

These are only my speculation.

 

sorry for my english...

[imacken]

Well, looks like it's a bug, certainly in the A-10C II it is, which BN says has been fixed internally. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=288069

 

Maybe the Hornet will get the same attention, as it is worse than the A-10C II in this respect.

[Stearmandriver]

Isn't it easy enough to raise the default view position in Track IR? Just look down a little and hit the key to re-center your view. Then when you return your head to a neutral position, the view is looking up more.

 

Personally I don't want that as I like having the panel in my scan, but seems easy enough to achieve with headtracking if that's your preference.

 

I also have no problems with the HMD as is; I always use it in merged fights for either the ACM HACQ mode, or off-boresight sidewinder shots. Works great. Only thing that annoys me about it is we can't yet use it to create (or even see) a ground target designation. ;)

[imacken]

Isn't it easy enough to raise the default view position in Track IR? Just look down a little and hit the key to re-center your view. Then when you return your head to a neutral position, the view is looking up more.

 

No, that doesn't help, well it does help the HMD position issue, but then your default non-HMD view is affected. All that needs to be done, is for ED to raise the position of the crosshair, or make it adjustable.

 

As has been said above, the issue occurs because the crosshair is centred on the screen, but your head position is not, otherwise you can't really see the DDIs.

 

This is why VR works perfectly, as it does relate to your head position.

[Swift.]

If they raised the DAC, then you would also have to remove the ability to zoom. Otherwise it would be 'zoomed' off the edge of the screen.

[hein22]

While I don't agree about this being an issue, I do think that ED should code an aligment procedure where the pilot can adjust this as his preference.

[Andartu]

While I don't agree about this being an issue, I do think that ED should code an aligment procedure where the pilot can adjust this as his preference.

 

Yes and Yes.. let everyone decide for himself :thumbup: Problem solved.

[imacken]

If they raised the DAC, then you would also have to remove the ability to zoom. Otherwise it would be 'zoomed' off the edge of the screen.

 

I don’t understand. It is perfectly positioned in VR and yet zoom works ok.

Could you explain?

[Topo]

I think he mean if DCS raise the DAC to fit the VV in 2d monitor (a bit over the monitor center) when you zoom in, the DAC can be outside view, because you zoom relative to the center of the monitor.

In VR the zoom is ok because the DAC is perfectly centered.

[imacken]

Thanks, but still confused. If I adjust to make the crosshair level with the VVI/horizon and turn my head, zoom still works the same as it does in default view.

 

Not sure what the issue is here.

[Swift.]

Thanks, but still confused. If I adjust to make the crosshair level with the VVI/horizon and turn my head, zoom still works the same as it does in default view.

 

Not sure what the issue is here.

 

Yea, because the DAC is still in the centre of the screen. If what you propose (moving the DAC to the top of the screen to match the VVIs placement at default view), happens, then you will see a different behaviour.

 

The bottom line is: Its not wrong how it is now, its not 'low' or anything like that, you are simply looking down. It would be like aiming at the floor in an FPS and complaining that the crosshair isnt on the enemy's head.

[imacken]

Yea, because the DAC is still in the centre of the screen. If what you propose (moving the DAC to the top of the screen to match the VVIs placement at default view), happens, then you will see a different behaviour.

 

The bottom line is: Its not wrong how it is now, its not 'low' or anything like that, you are simply looking down. It would be like aiming at the floor in an FPS and complaining that the crosshair isnt on the enemy's head.

I don’t know where you get the ‘top of the screen’ thing from.

 

I wish you would stop saying I’m looking down. I am adopting the same position as everyone else. IMO, it is most definitely not right. See previous attachments. It is low, just a fact!

 

1) there are loads of threads on this subject

2)in VR the crosshair is perfectly in line with the level flight VVI/horizon

3) on monitor, it’s not, it’s well below

4) if one adjusts the view to make the crosshair appear coincident with VVI/horizon, then the DDIs are almost not visible. Not the correct view orientation at all

5) this has been recognised as a bug in the A-10C II which had nothing like the same drop as the Hornet.

The issue is that - on monitor - the crosshair is centred on the screen, whereas your view is not. The VVI/horizon is well above centre, hence the unfortunate drop in where the crosshair appears. As others have said here and in other threads, what that means is that you have to move your head significantly further up than you should when tracking most enemy planes.

[TuffAsAir]

These are your screenshots, to which I have added a cross over the center of the screen. In the first screenshot, you can clearly see that the HMD crosshair is centered on the screen, if you consider that the center of the screen is "where you are looking", then you are looking below the VVI.

 

 

In the second screenshot, both are centered, thus "correct". The center of view for the HUD and HMD cursor coincide.

 

 

The fact that you can not see your HMDs on the screen at the same time is a "side effect" of being on center. The default view being "lower than center" is a way of permitting constant overview of HMDS but does not allow overlapping HMD crosshair with VVI.

[hein22]

These are your screenshots, to which I have added a cross over the center of the screen. In the first screenshot, you can clearly see that the HMD crosshair is centered on the screen, if you consider that the center of the screen is "where you are looking", then you are looking below the VVI.

 

 

In the second screenshot, both are centered, thus "correct". The center of view for the HUD and HMD cursor coincide.

 

 

The fact that you can not see your HMDs on the screen at the same time is a "side effect" of being on center. The default view being "lower than center" is a way of permitting constant overview of HMDS but does not allow overlapping HMD crosshair with VVI.

 

This is exactly why I said I didn't consider any of this a problem. But that it would be still nice to have an alignment procedure.

[TuffAsAir]

The procedure is as follows:

 

 

-If you are using TIR(or other head tracking), pause it or turn it off.

-Center the view by pressing NumPad 5.(by default)

-Use NumPad 8 to raise your POV.

-Pressing RAlt+NumPad 0 will save the new POV as default center.

[imacken]

These are your screenshots, to which I have added a cross over the center of the screen. In the first screenshot, you can clearly see that the HMD crosshair is centered on the screen, if you consider that the center of the screen is "where you are looking", then you are looking below the VVI.

 

 

In the second screenshot, both are centered, thus "correct". The center of view for the HUD and HMD cursor coincide.

 

 

The fact that you can not see your HMDs on the screen at the same time is a "side effect" of being on center. The default view being "lower than center" is a way of permitting constant overview of HMDS but does not allow overlapping HMD crosshair with VVI.

 

Good grief!

 

That's the point I (and others in other threads) have been making! It's because the crosshair is at the centre of the screen and the horizon line of sight is above the centre that the issue occurs on monitors (and not in VR)! The centre of the screen is NOT 'where you are looking'. If you were, you would be looking down!

 

And on your second point, VR does it correctly, and does allow overlapping HMD crosshair and VVI.

 

I'm out of here. This has become pointless. I'll stick to other threads on this topic.

[TuffAsAir]

Good grief!

 

That's the point I (and others in other threads) have been making! It's because the crosshair is at the centre of the screen and the horizon line of sight is above the centre that the issue occurs on monitors (and not in VR)! The centre of the screen is NOT 'where you are looking'. If you were, you would be looking down!

 

And on your second point, VR does it correctly, and does allow overlapping HMD crosshair and VVI.

 

I'm out of here. This has become pointless. I'll stick to other threads on this topic.

If you consider the center of the screen is "where you are looking". Note the quotes.

 

 

As far as your point as to VR doing it correctly; Vr centers the view to where you are looking, whereas there is no way for the software to know where you are actually looking on a 2D display. Head tracking tracks your head, not your eyes.

Edited October 5, 2020 by TuffAsAir

[Bunny Clark]

OK, everyone here I think perfectly understands the issue, they just have two different ways to think about it. One isn't necessarily wrong or right.

 

Personally, I'd consider the center of the screen to be the "where you are looking" point. Just like the cross hairs of any shooter game, the JHMCS cross hairs are at the center of the screen. For head tracking users and VR users, it's most natural (I think) for the crosshairs to be at the center of the screen.

 

The problem is that in the Hornet, the default 2D view is tilted downward. If you consider the center of the "view" to be the center of the screen, and the level point being the horizon. Essentially ED has placed the 0 pan 0 tilt head position in 2D about 12 degrees below the horizon. Since VR has no default view, the view is always related to raw head position, this effect does not manifest.

 

There are essentially two ways to fix this:

 

The default head possession can be moved to true 0,0. That's something you can do in DCS right now. It's how I currently fly the Hornet. It means the DDIs aren't fully visible in the default view, but since I use head tracking glancing down slightly doesn't bother me.

 

Or you can move the JHMCS up ~12° to match the horizon line. This means that as you look around, the crosshairs will always be offset above the center of the screen. As Swift pointed out, since the Zoom View zooms into the center of the screen, as you zoom in the JHMCS crosshair would get further and further from the center. This would also have to be implemented as an option, since it would be bad for VR users and at least some head tracking users (myself included) would not want the "center" offset like that.

[Butcher868]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=251858&highlight=Butcher868

 

i posted this a year ago and i think that would be a good deal for everyone

[Topo]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=251858&highlight=Butcher868

 

i posted this a year ago and i think that would be a good deal for everyone

 

IMHO the problem is'nt the HMD position (the "red circle" in your previous post), because is correct at the center of the screen; the problem is the default 2d view a bit angled down (in fact, the "blue circle" isn't centered on the screen but is tilted up).

In 2d monitor the velocity vector is'nt centered on the screen, so in the default view position you don't look directly ahead but a bit downward.

In 2d monitor you don't look directly at the VV, but a bit down.

If ED move the HMD display up to match the VV in default view, the zoom can be problematic.

In VR this problem is fixed because the view is correlated to the real head position, and not forced a bit down to show more instrument panels like in 2d monitor default view.

[Svend_Dellepude]

The procedure is as follows:

 

 

-If you are using TIR(or other head tracking), pause it or turn it off.

-Center the view by pressing NumPad 5.(by default)

-Use NumPad 8 to raise your POV.

-Pressing RAlt+NumPad 0 will save the new POV as default center.

 

^^This^^

 

I'm on TIR and never seen this as an issue. The HUD is front of your head so you just need to raise the default view to match this.

[CBStu]

I am understanding what all of you are saying but I still blame this on ED.

We generally fly looking at the VV.

We shoot guns looking at a cross hair.

We fire rockets looking at a different type cross hair.

We shoot missiles looking at various types of aim reticles usually in the form of circle.

Every one of these works just fine w/ the default view.

Then I try the HMD planning to use the HMD to fire 9x missiles. W/ HMD on, when I look straight I see the standard Aim9 aim circle in it's standard position and the HMD isn't really visible. (I know the HMD is there but it is not very visible) If I turn my head slightly to either side, the HMD circle pops into view but it is much lower than the conventional circle. Well this is just great. If I am wanting to use the HMD I am generally cranking through a turn and, if the HMD were higher, that would be helpful. W/ it being lower it is actually almost a hindrance. I am NOT going to mess w/ my default head position (or default view) to get the HMD to work better and screw up my view for every other facet of flying the FA-18.

Here is an idea which I know isn't realistic, but what the he11, let's use the dang HMD to aim MavFs.