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Honey, I developed FFB joystick (DIY)


propeler

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On 9/4/2021 at 9:58 PM, robjos1 said:

@Propeler Any news on the 2 axis odrive code?

Right now I work on another revision of mechanical construction, after performing all test on it I will make a port of firmware for ODrive. It is difficult to make separate versions for my board and ODrive (considering that I support those firmaware for FFB wheel as vell) on  every change so I will build it once check that everything works as expected.

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6febadf9-c19e-4dae-89ce-9715a3052b76.jpg


Edited by propeler
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Sure that makes sense, would be great to even have a test version when you're ready though.

 

New base looking very smart though quite tall, guess it's mounted on the floor in front of a chair

 

What encoders are you using with the hoverboard motors, or calculating position from Hall sensors?


Edited by robjos1
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  • 3 weeks later...

Been caught up with annoying real life stuff and finally coming back to this, though I just came across a MSFBB2 n.i.b. for a bargin.

 

I am wondering how putting the motors and circuitry of a MSFFB2 instead of hoverboards would hold up. The belt/gear ratio would help a lot but I am not sure even with the resistor mod if it wouldn't still be much too weak. The other concern is the mechanical deadzone MSFBB2's have, and if it can be overcome with this new gimbal


Edited by TomVR
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Been caught up with annoying real life stuff and finally coming back to this, though I just came across a MSFBB2 n.i.b. for a bargin.
 
I am wondering how putting the motors and circuitry of a MSFFB2 instead of hoverboards would hold up. The belt/gear ratio would help a lot but I am not sure even with the resistor mod if it wouldn't still be much too weak. The other concern is the mechanical deadzone MSFBB2's have, and if it can be overcome with this new gimbal
In the forum for that other WWII sim you can find rebuild FFB2s with timing belt solution, that supposedly greatly removes that deadzones. I assume you mean the tiny sloppiness in the middle.
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk

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ah yes, this famous post

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27099-ms-ffb2-modded-stick-for-you/?do=findComment&comment=735904

 

I think I can recreate that using propeler's excellent gimbal design. Its not every day I come across a MSFFB2 for 20 bucks locally!

I'll have to do some searching in ancient threads too, I remember reading an external PSU and mosfet mod that could get 400% more torque from the standard motors. though I expect much of the useful reference is all lost to the photobucket apocalypse 

 

39 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

In the forum for that other WWII sim you can find rebuild FFB2s with timing belt solution, that supposedly greatly removes that deadzones. I assume you mean the tiny sloppiness in the middle. emoji4.png
Cheers!

Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk
 

 


Edited by TomVR
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17 hours ago, TomVR said:

ah yes, this famous post

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27099-ms-ffb2-modded-stick-for-you/?do=findComment&comment=735904

 

I think I can recreate that using propeler's excellent gimbal design. Its not every day I come across a MSFFB2 for 20 bucks locally!

I'll have to do some searching in ancient threads too, I remember reading an external PSU and mosfet mod that could get 400% more torque from the standard motors. though I expect much of the useful reference is all lost to the photobucket apocalypse 

 

 

Roland's page is still in tact http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm


Edited by Thadiun Okona
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Hey guys, an update on my FFB development. 

Ordered FFB controller boards and boards for the motor control, redesigned the gimbal from scratch, so not to be bound by copyrights. Also spent some time on optimizing the design, so it could be built rather quickly. Finding sources of parts is also a challenge during these times of various shortages.

I'm hoping I will be able to start selling these electronics kits for anyone that wants to build own FFB joysticks. And later some finished builds, similarily how Prusa started with 3D printers 🙂

 

Added some prototype photos

IMG_20210930_140009.jpg

IMG_20210930_140022.jpg

IMG_20210930_140114.jpg

IMG_20210930_140914.jpg

Screenshot from 2021-09-30 14-20-48.png

Screenshot from 2021-09-30 14-21-04.png


Edited by walmis
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15 hours ago, TomVR said:

Some madlad has already completed a MSFFB2 driven propeler gimbal design.

 

hope they post detail in the thread.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/py7525/ive_seen_some_love_for_the_microsoft_sidewinder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf


Also the OP in that thread is discussing compound pulleys as a way to increase torque. It's an interesting suggestion, since I think overall FFB speed might not be as important as a strong centering force, though the rattling and vibration effects I guess would suffer a lot.

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9 hours ago, walmis said:

I'm hoping I will be able to start selling these electronics kits for anyone that wants to build own FFB joysticks. And later some finished builds, similarily how Prusa started with 3D printers 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, this looks incredible.  As I possess zero ability to do anything beyond very basic wood work, I would absolutely be a day-one customer for a finished build! So I'm hoping you get to that point soon.

i7-9700K / MSI MPG Z390 Gaming PRO Carbon AC / 32GB DDR4 / RTX 3080 Ti / TrackIR5 / MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals / VKB Gunfighter MkIII base + MCG Ultimate grip

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12 hours ago, walmis said:

Hey guys, an update on my FFB development. 

Ordered FFB controller boards and boards for the motor control, redesigned the gimbal from scratch, so not to be bound by copyrights. Also spent some time on optimizing the design, so it could be built rather quickly. Finding sources of parts is also a challenge during these times of various shortages.

I'm hoping I will be able to start selling these electronics kits for anyone that wants to build own FFB joysticks. And later some finished builds, similarily how Prusa started with 3D printers 🙂

 

Added some prototype photos

IMG_20210930_140009.jpg

IMG_20210930_140022.jpg

IMG_20210930_140114.jpg

IMG_20210930_140914.jpg

Screenshot from 2021-09-30 14-20-48.png

Screenshot from 2021-09-30 14-21-04.png

 

Looks fantastic!

 

When do you think you would have electronic kits available and around what price would you be looking at?

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22 hours ago, walmis said:

Hey guys, an update on my FFB development. 

Ordered FFB controller boards and boards for the motor control, redesigned the gimbal from scratch, so not to be bound by copyrights. Also spent some time on optimizing the design, so it could be built rather quickly. Finding sources of parts is also a challenge during these times of various shortages.

I'm hoping I will be able to start selling these electronics kits for anyone that wants to build own FFB joysticks. And later some finished builds, similarily how Prusa started with 3D printers 🙂

 

Added some prototype photos

 

 

 

 

 

 

hello, put me in your list of potential customer...


Edited by lefuneste01

P8700K @4.8 GHz, 1080ti, 16 GB RAM, HP reverb Pro.

I spend my time making 3dmigoto VR mods for BoS and DCS instead of flying, see https://www.patreon.com/lefuneste

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On 8/1/2021 at 3:24 PM, 98abaile said:

So would this solution work with any game that supports FFB? I see mention of firmware but no software; I'm wondering if the control board could be repurposed for an FFB yoke I was planning on building.

I was wondering if I could get an answer to this?

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1 hour ago, 98abaile said:

I was wondering if I could get an answer to this?

Yeah, a yoke should be possible too. The mechanics should be able to accept two NEMA23 case motors. The USB board supports standard FFB implementation. I'm also working on a support application to adjust additional settings, such as calibration, firmware update, etc.. 

 

On 10/1/2021 at 2:23 AM, Roller25 said:

Looks fantastic!

 

When do you think you would have electronic kits available and around what price would you be looking at?

Working on this! Supply side of things is complicated, but my guess this year I should be able to get something ready. Price target would be around 250-300$ for 2 motors with integrated electronics and a USB control board.

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15 hours ago, walmis said:

Working on this! Supply side of things is complicated, but my guess this year I should be able to get something ready. Price target would be around 250-300$ for 2 motors with integrated electronics and a USB control board.

I'll be keen as soon as you have them available. Sooner the better! 👍

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On 10/1/2021 at 3:08 AM, Bard_the_Bowman said:


That’s me!  I’ve been lurking here for a while but just made an account.  I’ll post more later. 

Well got dang it, I guess it’ll be some more time before I have time to post any kind of write up about my FFB2-propeler-frankenstick.  I had issues with the pillow blocks cracking probably from  being a tad too aggressive in mounting the bearings in them, and my improvised solution of reinforcing them worked real good - until tonight when I tried a water landing in a float plane in MSFS using Frankenstick with XPForce. Word of wisdom - make sure your XPForce gear vibration settings are turned WAY down before doing water landings lmao

D5D4E05E-5D78-4AC8-877D-C48C39C1EC97.jpeg

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On 9/30/2021 at 12:51 PM, TomVR said:


Also the OP in that thread is discussing compound pulleys as a way to increase torque. It's an interesting suggestion, since I think overall FFB speed might not be as important as a strong centering force, though the rattling and vibration effects I guess would suffer a lot.

I don’t think the vibration effects would suffer too much. The gear reduction in Propeler’s design is significantly less than the stock FFB2 design. So increasing the reduction ratio shouldn’t make it any slower than stock or at least not much.  
 

Also it turns out my pitch axis is plenty strong, strong enough to break stuff, so if I do any further reduction it will only be on the roll axis.


Edited by Bard_the_Bowman
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1 hour ago, Bard_the_Bowman said:

I had issues with the pillow blocks cracking probably from  being a tad too aggressive in mounting the bearings in them

In wich orientation and material you print it?

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2 hours ago, propeler said:

In wich orientation and material you print it?

Lying face down on bed, printed with Polymax PC (polycarbonate hybrid).  I think the problem was that I pounded bearings into the blocks with rubber hammer instead of pressing.  Also maybe should have sanded inside of blocks before installing bearings.

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9 hours ago, propeler said:

In wich orientation and material you print it?

Also Propeler I want to thank you for creating this amazing forum thread.  This is like a flight stick force feedback Renaissance happening in here.  And your gimbal design is a work of art (the cracking on mine is only because I got hasty with installing the bearings, not a problem with your design).  I had started designing my own gimbal but found this thread and decided not to re-invent the wheel.  
 

Glad to finally be posting in here instead of just lurking lol.  Have you ever thought about starting a Discord server?  I know there are some for racing wheel projects and it might be neat to start one for FFB flight hardware.  I would be happy to start one if you all have any interest.  I help run a fairly large Elite Dangerous discord server so I should be able to set one up easily if there is interest.


Edited by Bard_the_Bowman
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9 hours ago, propeler said:

In wich orientation and material you print it?

The followup question is: has the printer ever been  precisely calibrated?  *Most are not accurate out of the box... they're close enough to make parts that fit with parts printed on that particular machine but not precise enough to reliably press bearings into. Bearings are made to standard dimensions so if your printed part has a hole that's just slightly off no matter what orientation it's printed the part will crack.

 

*Prusa's are the only ones I know of that are able to print dimensionally accurate parts without first manually verifying or calibrating x/y/z and extruder axes, and even then only because Prusa calibrates them at the factory and the cost reflects it. 

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56 minutes ago, Thadiun Okona said:

The followup question is: has the printer ever been  precisely calibrated?  *Most are not accurate out of the box... they're close enough to make parts that fit with parts printed on that particular machine but not precise enough to reliably press bearings into. Bearings are made to standard dimensions so if your printed part has a hole that's just slightly off no matter what orientation it's printed the part will crack.

 

*Prusa's are the only ones I know of that are able to print dimensionally accurate parts without first manually verifying or calibrating x/y/z and extruder axes, and even then only because Prusa calibrates them at the factory and the cost reflects it. 

No I haven’t calibrated, but parts I have printed have been remarkably close to spec.  I got very lucky with my Ender 3 Pro and it seems to be remarkably accurate overall without calibration.  For example the main bearings fit on the gimbal arms perfectly with no major issues at all.  I think that my impact-heavy pressing strategy was probably the biggest issue.  This filament has incredible tensile strength but based on my testing does seem to be fairly vulnerable to strong impact force.  So I think that if I carefully use a press next time and make sure that any imperfections in the print are sanded away, it should be fine.  I also printed some reinforcement parts* that I superglued onto the cracking blocks, and I think I might add those straightaway this time as an additional measure.  
 

*Note that the paper-board reinforcement on the right side lower block in the picture is not what I’m referring to here, that was something I slapped on the lower block real quick as a preventative measure.  


Edited by Bard_the_Bowman
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