robjos1 Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 @Propeler Any news on the 2 axis odrive code? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propeler Posted September 6, 2021 Author Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) On 9/4/2021 at 9:58 PM, robjos1 said: @Propeler Any news on the 2 axis odrive code? Right now I work on another revision of mechanical construction, after performing all test on it I will make a port of firmware for ODrive. It is difficult to make separate versions for my board and ODrive (considering that I support those firmaware for FFB wheel as vell) on every change so I will build it once check that everything works as expected. Edited September 6, 2021 by propeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robjos1 Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) Sure that makes sense, would be great to even have a test version when you're ready though. New base looking very smart though quite tall, guess it's mounted on the floor in front of a chair What encoders are you using with the hoverboard motors, or calculating position from Hall sensors? Edited September 6, 2021 by robjos1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomVR Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) Been caught up with annoying real life stuff and finally coming back to this, though I just came across a MSFBB2 n.i.b. for a bargin. I am wondering how putting the motors and circuitry of a MSFFB2 instead of hoverboards would hold up. The belt/gear ratio would help a lot but I am not sure even with the resistor mod if it wouldn't still be much too weak. The other concern is the mechanical deadzone MSFBB2's have, and if it can be overcome with this new gimbal Edited September 27, 2021 by TomVR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAXsenna Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Been caught up with annoying real life stuff and finally coming back to this, though I just came across a MSFBB2 n.i.b. for a bargin. I am wondering how putting the motors and circuitry of a MSFFB2 instead of hoverboards would hold up. The belt/gear ratio would help a lot but I am not sure even with the resistor mod if it wouldn't still be much too weak. The other concern is the mechanical deadzone MSFBB2's have, and if it can be overcome with this new gimbalIn the forum for that other WWII sim you can find rebuild FFB2s with timing belt solution, that supposedly greatly removes that deadzones. I assume you mean the tiny sloppiness in the middle. Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomVR Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) ah yes, this famous post https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27099-ms-ffb2-modded-stick-for-you/?do=findComment&comment=735904 I think I can recreate that using propeler's excellent gimbal design. Its not every day I come across a MSFFB2 for 20 bucks locally! I'll have to do some searching in ancient threads too, I remember reading an external PSU and mosfet mod that could get 400% more torque from the standard motors. though I expect much of the useful reference is all lost to the photobucket apocalypse 39 minutes ago, MAXsenna said: In the forum for that other WWII sim you can find rebuild FFB2s with timing belt solution, that supposedly greatly removes that deadzones. I assume you mean the tiny sloppiness in the middle. Cheers! Sent from my MAR-LX1A using Tapatalk Edited September 27, 2021 by TomVR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thadiun Okona Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, TomVR said: ah yes, this famous post https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27099-ms-ffb2-modded-stick-for-you/?do=findComment&comment=735904 I think I can recreate that using propeler's excellent gimbal design. Its not every day I come across a MSFFB2 for 20 bucks locally! I'll have to do some searching in ancient threads too, I remember reading an external PSU and mosfet mod that could get 400% more torque from the standard motors. though I expect much of the useful reference is all lost to the photobucket apocalypse Roland's page is still in tact http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm Edited September 28, 2021 by Thadiun Okona 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomVR Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Some madlad has already completed a MSFFB2 driven propeler gimbal design. hope they post detail in the thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/py7525/ive_seen_some_love_for_the_microsoft_sidewinder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walmis Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) Hey guys, an update on my FFB development. Ordered FFB controller boards and boards for the motor control, redesigned the gimbal from scratch, so not to be bound by copyrights. Also spent some time on optimizing the design, so it could be built rather quickly. Finding sources of parts is also a challenge during these times of various shortages. I'm hoping I will be able to start selling these electronics kits for anyone that wants to build own FFB joysticks. And later some finished builds, similarily how Prusa started with 3D printers Added some prototype photos Edited September 30, 2021 by walmis 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomVR Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 15 hours ago, TomVR said: Some madlad has already completed a MSFFB2 driven propeler gimbal design. hope they post detail in the thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/py7525/ive_seen_some_love_for_the_microsoft_sidewinder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Also the OP in that thread is discussing compound pulleys as a way to increase torque. It's an interesting suggestion, since I think overall FFB speed might not be as important as a strong centering force, though the rattling and vibration effects I guess would suffer a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregP Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 9 hours ago, walmis said: I'm hoping I will be able to start selling these electronics kits for anyone that wants to build own FFB joysticks. And later some finished builds, similarily how Prusa started with 3D printers Wow, this looks incredible. As I possess zero ability to do anything beyond very basic wood work, I would absolutely be a day-one customer for a finished build! So I'm hoping you get to that point soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roller25 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 12 hours ago, walmis said: Hey guys, an update on my FFB development. Ordered FFB controller boards and boards for the motor control, redesigned the gimbal from scratch, so not to be bound by copyrights. Also spent some time on optimizing the design, so it could be built rather quickly. Finding sources of parts is also a challenge during these times of various shortages. I'm hoping I will be able to start selling these electronics kits for anyone that wants to build own FFB joysticks. And later some finished builds, similarily how Prusa started with 3D printers Added some prototype photos Looks fantastic! When do you think you would have electronic kits available and around what price would you be looking at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard_the_Bowman Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/29/2021 at 9:21 PM, TomVR said: Some madlad has already completed a MSFFB2 driven propeler gimbal design. That’s me! I’ve been lurking here for a while but just made an account. I’ll post more later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefuneste01 Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, walmis said: Hey guys, an update on my FFB development. Ordered FFB controller boards and boards for the motor control, redesigned the gimbal from scratch, so not to be bound by copyrights. Also spent some time on optimizing the design, so it could be built rather quickly. Finding sources of parts is also a challenge during these times of various shortages. I'm hoping I will be able to start selling these electronics kits for anyone that wants to build own FFB joysticks. And later some finished builds, similarily how Prusa started with 3D printers Added some prototype photos hello, put me in your list of potential customer... Edited October 1, 2021 by lefuneste01 P8700K @4.8 GHz, 3080ti, 32 GB RAM, HP reverb Pro. I spend my time making 3dmigoto VR mods for BoS and DCS instead of flying, see https://www.patreon.com/lefuneste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom_Mark Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Wallet is ready here when a viable solution appears :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98abaile Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 On 8/1/2021 at 3:24 PM, 98abaile said: So would this solution work with any game that supports FFB? I see mention of firmware but no software; I'm wondering if the control board could be repurposed for an FFB yoke I was planning on building. I was wondering if I could get an answer to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walmis Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 1 hour ago, 98abaile said: I was wondering if I could get an answer to this? Yeah, a yoke should be possible too. The mechanics should be able to accept two NEMA23 case motors. The USB board supports standard FFB implementation. I'm also working on a support application to adjust additional settings, such as calibration, firmware update, etc.. On 10/1/2021 at 2:23 AM, Roller25 said: Looks fantastic! When do you think you would have electronic kits available and around what price would you be looking at? Working on this! Supply side of things is complicated, but my guess this year I should be able to get something ready. Price target would be around 250-300$ for 2 motors with integrated electronics and a USB control board. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roller25 Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 15 hours ago, walmis said: Working on this! Supply side of things is complicated, but my guess this year I should be able to get something ready. Price target would be around 250-300$ for 2 motors with integrated electronics and a USB control board. I'll be keen as soon as you have them available. Sooner the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard_the_Bowman Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 On 10/1/2021 at 3:08 AM, Bard_the_Bowman said: That’s me! I’ve been lurking here for a while but just made an account. I’ll post more later. Well got dang it, I guess it’ll be some more time before I have time to post any kind of write up about my FFB2-propeler-frankenstick. I had issues with the pillow blocks cracking probably from being a tad too aggressive in mounting the bearings in them, and my improvised solution of reinforcing them worked real good - until tonight when I tried a water landing in a float plane in MSFS using Frankenstick with XPForce. Word of wisdom - make sure your XPForce gear vibration settings are turned WAY down before doing water landings lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard_the_Bowman Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) On 9/30/2021 at 12:51 PM, TomVR said: Also the OP in that thread is discussing compound pulleys as a way to increase torque. It's an interesting suggestion, since I think overall FFB speed might not be as important as a strong centering force, though the rattling and vibration effects I guess would suffer a lot. I don’t think the vibration effects would suffer too much. The gear reduction in Propeler’s design is significantly less than the stock FFB2 design. So increasing the reduction ratio shouldn’t make it any slower than stock or at least not much. Also it turns out my pitch axis is plenty strong, strong enough to break stuff, so if I do any further reduction it will only be on the roll axis. Edited October 4, 2021 by Bard_the_Bowman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propeler Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share Posted October 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Bard_the_Bowman said: I had issues with the pillow blocks cracking probably from being a tad too aggressive in mounting the bearings in them In wich orientation and material you print it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard_the_Bowman Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 2 hours ago, propeler said: In wich orientation and material you print it? Lying face down on bed, printed with Polymax PC (polycarbonate hybrid). I think the problem was that I pounded bearings into the blocks with rubber hammer instead of pressing. Also maybe should have sanded inside of blocks before installing bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard_the_Bowman Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, propeler said: In wich orientation and material you print it? Also Propeler I want to thank you for creating this amazing forum thread. This is like a flight stick force feedback Renaissance happening in here. And your gimbal design is a work of art (the cracking on mine is only because I got hasty with installing the bearings, not a problem with your design). I had started designing my own gimbal but found this thread and decided not to re-invent the wheel. Glad to finally be posting in here instead of just lurking lol. Have you ever thought about starting a Discord server? I know there are some for racing wheel projects and it might be neat to start one for FFB flight hardware. I would be happy to start one if you all have any interest. I help run a fairly large Elite Dangerous discord server so I should be able to set one up easily if there is interest. Edited October 4, 2021 by Bard_the_Bowman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thadiun Okona Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 9 hours ago, propeler said: In wich orientation and material you print it? The followup question is: has the printer ever been precisely calibrated? *Most are not accurate out of the box... they're close enough to make parts that fit with parts printed on that particular machine but not precise enough to reliably press bearings into. Bearings are made to standard dimensions so if your printed part has a hole that's just slightly off no matter what orientation it's printed the part will crack. *Prusa's are the only ones I know of that are able to print dimensionally accurate parts without first manually verifying or calibrating x/y/z and extruder axes, and even then only because Prusa calibrates them at the factory and the cost reflects it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bard_the_Bowman Posted October 4, 2021 Share Posted October 4, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Thadiun Okona said: The followup question is: has the printer ever been precisely calibrated? *Most are not accurate out of the box... they're close enough to make parts that fit with parts printed on that particular machine but not precise enough to reliably press bearings into. Bearings are made to standard dimensions so if your printed part has a hole that's just slightly off no matter what orientation it's printed the part will crack. *Prusa's are the only ones I know of that are able to print dimensionally accurate parts without first manually verifying or calibrating x/y/z and extruder axes, and even then only because Prusa calibrates them at the factory and the cost reflects it. No I haven’t calibrated, but parts I have printed have been remarkably close to spec. I got very lucky with my Ender 3 Pro and it seems to be remarkably accurate overall without calibration. For example the main bearings fit on the gimbal arms perfectly with no major issues at all. I think that my impact-heavy pressing strategy was probably the biggest issue. This filament has incredible tensile strength but based on my testing does seem to be fairly vulnerable to strong impact force. So I think that if I carefully use a press next time and make sure that any imperfections in the print are sanded away, it should be fine. I also printed some reinforcement parts* that I superglued onto the cracking blocks, and I think I might add those straightaway this time as an additional measure. *Note that the paper-board reinforcement on the right side lower block in the picture is not what I’m referring to here, that was something I slapped on the lower block real quick as a preventative measure. Edited October 4, 2021 by Bard_the_Bowman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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