CCIP Mode

[sSkullZnBoneZz]

Hey guys, I've been messing around with the Instant Action mission in Nevada, "Weapons Practice" I believe it's called. I'm simply trying to drop a CBU-97 in CCIP mode but the PBIL line never turns solid and I never see the bombing recticle show up. I have the fuse set to nose the TGP SPI is placed on the target, HUD is SOI. Any ideas?

[shahin_sky]

Me too sir

[Ziptie]

Hey guys, I've been messing around with the Instant Action mission in Nevada, "Weapons Practice" I believe it's called. I'm simply trying to drop a CBU-97 in CCIP mode but the PBIL line never turns solid and I never see the bombing recticle show up. I have the fuse set to nose the TGP SPI is placed on the target, HUD is SOI. Any ideas?

 

What degree of nose down attitude do you have when attempting? Altitude? Those are factors that play into getting the pipper / ball and chain to change for valid drop solution cue.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Foka]

CBU falls like a rock, so pipper will be very low.

[webweaver40]

I had same problem tonight in a 30 to 35 degree dive. Do we need to go steeper than that? I'll do some more testing tomorrow.

 

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[Foka]

Depends on altitude you're on.

[gachatar]

The CBU-97 needs a very steep dive because once it opens up, the submunition dispensers parachute down almost vertically. I usually just drop them in CCRP in a moderate nose down.

[sSkullZnBoneZz]

Thanks for the reply guys, I have tried at 10,000 feet and at 5,000 feet still same result even going 50-60 degree angle. This can't be right, the A10C was my first module back in 2013 and I never had this problem before.

[Rainmaker]

Use CCRP without designation. With function like delayed CCIP and cue up pipper higher in the HUD. Just requires you to consent to release and hold pickle through bomb release.

[Frederf]

Same with CBU-87. It's like the CCIP calc is using the wrong drag value. CCRP for both seems fine.

 

From 25,000' CCIP solution was 90 degrees down.

[Ziptie]

Just dropped 97s and 87s in CCIP, no issues whatsoever. 12,000 ft, 45* nose down, press and hold weapon release - multiple shacks. Might just be out of parameters slightly or making an error...?

 

Works perfect here.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Tippis]

You can also set up the CCIP-CR mode to 3/9 or 5mil and always have the pipper on-screen so you can designate targets more easily and not worry about flying in such a way that the line goes solid by itself.

 

Flip the IFFCC switch over to test and change the CCIP CONSENT OPT. Unfortunately, though, the CCIP-CR mode has been broken since january, so it's still… unreliable.

 

Also, given the altitudes you'll be at in Nevada, it matters a lot that the computer knows the ground altitude — it should rarely come up, but it is possible to confuse the poor thing about where the ground actually is and making it not give you a proper release solution because it believes the ground is 6000' lower than it actually is.

[Frederf]

I did a comparison going idle descent from 25,000' with MK84 and CBU-87 CCIP (HOF 300'). I set -30 FPA and autopilot and just coasted downhill until the pipper appears on the bottom of the HUD.

 

MK84 showed up at 11,100' (~-31 dive, 380 KCAS). CBU-87/300 showed up at 9,900' (-30.5 dive, 375 KCAS). That's near enough to the same for my tastes. Looks OK. I guess I just got used to faster jets where CCIP would be more distant at high altitudes.

 

CBU CCIP is difficult because if HOF is high then you have to get the pipper on HUD before you drop below the minimum height to arm (HOF + whatever arming delay the fuze has). But the higher you go the steeper the pipper angle is going to be for a given speed. Trying to put pipper on HUD means a steep dive which reduces bomb range (which also causes steeper pipper angle) and reduces the time until you hit the minimum altitude.

 

CCIP delivery of a 3000' HOF CBU will simply have a height below which direct CCIP delivery is impractical.

[sSkullZnBoneZz]

Thanks for all the tips guys.

[Orsi]

If we have a way to adjust ccip will be very good. Sometimes you need a 45 degree dive to get a solution, with this we will loose too much altitude.

[Ziptie]

If we have a way to adjust ccip will be very good. Sometimes you need a 45 degree dive to get a solution, with this we will loose too much altitude.

 

IFCC switch to center position, change CCIP constant release to 3/9(?). Toggle IFCC switch back to original position. Now less nose down required for pipper and release.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[PhoenixRising]

How does that work? The physics of a bomb leaving the rail haven't changed.

[Ziptie]

How does that work? The physics of a bomb leaving the rail haven't changed.

 

It is changing the fall line / pipper (ball and chain) display, requiring less nose down for the pipper to be displayed.

 

Snoopy would probably be best to explain how it all works, if he is able to do so without disclosing anything that might be classified or considered sensitive information.

 

Either way, try it - it works.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[sSkullZnBoneZz]

It is changing the fall line / pipper (ball and chain) display, requiring less nose down for the pipper to be displayed.

 

Snoopy would probably be best to explain how it all works, if he is able to do so without disclosing anything that might be classified or considered sensitive information.

 

Either way, try it - it works.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

 

Thanks for the tip. I’ll give it a try.

 

 

 

 

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[Orsi]

But 3/9 isn’t less precise than the constant release?

[Ziptie]

But 3/9 isn’t less precise than the constant release?

 

I don’t have any issues hitting targets with 87s/97s with CCIP 3/9 consent. Maybe because that is what I have always selected since day 1 of the original A10C when I purchased, carrying over that habit to the A10CII. The only time I have an issue, is when I don’t properly input wind into the LASTE, but that has nothing to do with CCIP 3/9 consent. That’s just an error by the link from the seat to the helmet.

 

Cheers.

 

Ziptie

[Frederf]

But 3/9 isn’t less precise than the constant release?

3/9 and 5 mil are lateral miss release constraints. They are equally accurate if you fly through the center of the solution. Each constrain releases the weapon at the longitudinal best time so misses will be left-right not far-long.

 

But 3/9 lets the bomb come off for lateral misses that 5 mil won't.

[Tippis]

How does that work? The physics of a bomb leaving the rail haven't changed.

It essentially turns the standard CCIP pipper into a CCRP designator rather than a direct impact point calculation tool. Its behaviour is identical to regular CCIP up until the point you get the pipper on target and press the release button.

 

At that point, instead of figuring out which point on the ground the bombs will hit if released, the fire control computer figures which point on the ground you're aiming at and calculates a CCRP release solution for you to hit that spot. This is then fed right back into the display and you're given CCRP-like steering cues to ensure that you hit the spot you designated. If you arrive at that solution (within the 5mil or 3/9 constraints) with the button still held down, you consent to release and the bombs come off the rack.

 

The logic goes from “if released now, your bombs go here” to “to make the bombs go here, release… … … now!”, and you're using CCIP logic and HUD cues rather than, say, TGP input to do the aiming. Between the capabilities to do both CCIP and CCRP calculations, the fire control computer can switch from one to the other on the fly.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Tippis

[PhoenixRising]

It essentially turns the standard CCIP pipper into a CCRP designator rather than a direct impact point calculation tool. Its behaviour is identical to regular CCIP up until the point you get the pipper on target and press the release button.

 

At that point, instead of figuring out which point on the ground the bombs will hit if released, the fire control computer figures which point on the ground you're aiming at and calculates a CCRP release solution for you to hit that spot. This is then fed right back into the display and you're given CCRP-like steering cues to ensure that you hit the spot you designated. If you arrive at that solution (within the 5mil or 3/9 constraints) with the button still held down, you consent to release and the bombs come off the rack.

 

The logic goes from “if released now, your bombs go here” to “to make the bombs go here, release… … … now!”, and you're using CCIP logic and HUD cues rather than, say, TGP input to do the aiming. Between the capabilities to do both CCIP and CCRP calculations, the fire control computer can switch from one to the other on the fly.

Thanks for the in depth reply. I was able to try it out today, and it makes a lot more sense now. Whether it is easier or not, I think I need more practice to determine that.