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F-16: Thales Scorpion JHMCS addition?


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Kinda in the title. Chances are I already know the answer because ED really likes to stand by their tag lines of when aircraft are meant to be represented (i.e our Viper is circa 2007) but at the same time the Scorpion is designed to be installed on a standard issue HGU-55/P and HGU-68/P helmets and is fully compatible with standard issue U.S. Pilot Flight Equipment without special fitting. Also the USAF and USANG actively use it on F-16s and A-10s

 

So heres the thing: Are there any plans to add this to our F-16 and yes I know it wasn't given to the F-16 IRL till 2008 and I don't quite know if by moving it to a 2008 model by adding it if it'll open up any other cans of worms for people want bits of equipment from 2008 but from what I could find the Scorpion was the only note worthy upgrade of that year.

 

So ED, are there plans?, is it possible?

Edited by Southernbear
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ED is already unwilling to add GBU-54s to the F-16C which saw it’s first combat usage from F-16s in early 2008 (meaning it was being tested in at least 2007). So I think it’s safe to say the Scorpion HMCS won’t make it’s way over to the Viper. (It also isn’t very common system among Viper squadrons in the USAF/ANG)

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Yeah, thankfully ED has some standards unlike 3rd parties which are like, system for our franken plane barely added a year ago? Sure its in!

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Also worth noting that vipers JHMCS will probably see some cool stuff too. It just happens that hog2 got it all before the others.

 

Hey, could you expand on that a little please ? Would like to know more as i'm interested in that :p

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Also worth noting that vipers JHMCS will probably see some cool stuff too. It just happens that hog2 got it all before the others.

 

There are a couple of reasons for that...

 

A.) Money

B.) Mission

 

A.) The JHMCS does everything necessary for the vipers mission. Spending money on "new and shiny" needs to be kept in check...switching to a different system requires aircraft testing And certification. ($$$) aircrew training ($$$) maintenance ($$$)

 

B.) The Scorpion system is unnecessary fluff for the F-16 mission. That's why they weren't adopted.

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There are a couple of reasons for that...

 

A.) Money

B.) Mission

 

A.) The JHMCS does everything necessary for the vipers mission. Spending money on "new and shiny" needs to be kept in check...switching to a different system requires aircraft testing And certification. ($$$) aircrew training ($$$) maintenance ($$$)

 

B.) The Scorpion system is unnecessary fluff for the F-16 mission. That's why they weren't adopted.

 

 

The person you're replying to is talking about DCS and the current state of the 18 and 16's EA jhmcs and why the A-10 II got some love before the teens. And Scorpion is used by some older US F-16s.

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Yeah, thankfully ED has some standards unlike 3rd parties which are like, system for our franken plane barely added a year ago? Sure its in!

 

You got to be kidding..Standards?As in 4 HARMS vs stick to what their modelled airframe actually carried/was wired for? Triple Mavericks? Its not like they don’t drop their standards to cater to their userbase wishes..Seriously hope your post was meant in a sarcastic way.

 

If they push in the Scorpion I never want to hear another word about other developers Frankenplanes or timeframe inconsistencies.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Snappy

Edited by Snappy
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You got to be kidding..Standards?As in 4 HARMS vs stick to what their modelled airframe actually carried/was wired for? Seriously hope your post was meant in a sarcastic way.

 

If they push in the Scorpion I never want to hear another word about other developers Frankenplanes or timeframe inconsistencies.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Snappy

 

 

 

 

Can you prove that?

 

 

You guys are crying about 4 HARM all over the forum but you are happy to rearm and refuel 10 times in 2 hours, and fly 10 sorties in that time, now that's realistic.

 

 

 

When did you see hornet with 8 JSOW that went into a real life mission?

 

 

But 4 HARM on a Viper is a big problem, and you can't even prove that it cant carry them.

 

People presented evidence that they can be loaded and ED decided to enable it, what did you present except words?

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Can you prove that?

 

 

You guys are crying about 4 HARM all over the forum but you are happy to rearm and refuel 10 times in 2 hours, and fly 10 sorties in that time, now that's realistic.

 

 

 

When did you see hornet with 8 JSOW that went into a real life mission?

 

 

First of all you have no idea what I do or don‘t , so don‘t make baseless assumptions.

 

As for proof , neither do you have any, except words from ED, which doesn’t mean much either

without documents to back it up and I mean for the ANG airframe they constantly point out they‘re modelling.

So you can‘t prove anything either.

Its not like ED wasn‘t wrong with some of their claims before, see M-61 gun dispersion issue.

 

Also I think you misunderstood me, personally I have no big issue with you loading on 4 Harms or triple Mavericks if it absolutely floats your boat.I personally think the whole DCS realism tag should be taken less seriously.

 

The thing I took issue with, is people acting like ED is somehow the gold standard for for module realism, as opposed third party developers, which it is not.

ED takes the same dips into the hypothetical as other developers from time to time.

 

Anyway we‘re getting OT so I‘m quitting here.Lets see whether they stick to authenticity with Scorpion Helmet sight.

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

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The person you're replying to is talking about DCS and the current state of the 18 and 16's EA jhmcs and why the A-10 II got some love before the teens. And Scorpion is used by some older US F-16s.

 

Easy way to tell between jhmcs and scorpion is the sensor location for scorpion is at the top of the canopy like on this blk 30.

 

eL16Zuu.png

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Down the line we might see DCS: F-16C II Fighting Falcon DLC featuring Scorpion and APKWS.

Not even kidding, with the success of A-10C II, I hope that we see new features added to our birds as DLC’s.

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Down the line we might see DCS: F-16C II Fighting Falcon DLC featuring Scorpion and APKWS.

Not even kidding, with the success of A-10C II, I hope that we see new features added to our birds as DLC’s.

 

I don't know if this is good for us.

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But 4 HARM on a Viper is a big problem, and you can't even prove that it cant carry them.

 

Actually...we DID prove you can't carry them...

 

Originally Posted by Scrape View Post

Stations 4&6 are not wired for video. The only stations that can transmit video are 3&7. I'm saying this as a guy who ran those video lines the AGM-88 uses. I started on BLK 30s in 2001 and worked 16s for 13 years. Never saw a video line going to or from stations 4&6. Not sure who changed your mind, but it's worth taking a second look.

 

Edit for clarification: The station comm lines exist. Meaning jettison commands and such will go through and work. However there is no video, so the WPN page on the MFD will be blank. The 88 and LAU-118 will send the video, but there is no pin in the pylon disconnect on the wing to receive it on stations 4 & 6. Can't use a 88 without video. 65s and 88s use the same video line. Meaning that United States F-16s (can't speak for other countries) cannot support 65s or 88s on sta 4&6.

 

A real life maintainer said "It won't work".

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Actually...we DID prove you can't carry them...

 

 

 

A real life maintainer said "It won't work".

Yup. As I recall, there were several real life maintainers that chimed in on this. I guess he missed that though.

DO it or Don't, but don't cry about it. Real men don't cry!

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Of note, it seems to be that the only F-16 units using the Scorpion are the ANG units and maybe the AFRC. And that maybe because they are flying older Block aircraft. All Frontline units with BLOCK40/50 use the standard JHMCS.

 

To put a Scorpion JHMCS in the Block 50 we currently have would make it a Frankenstein aircraft.

 

Attention to detail is important here!

DO it or Don't, but don't cry about it. Real men don't cry!

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Im not an expert and Im not sure which blocks will receive that but I found this article:

https://defpost.com/thales-receives-8-5m-support-contract-for-f-16-helmet-mounted-integrated-targeting-system/http://

 

 

Im guessing that since it is (IDIQ) contract all blocks of F-16s will be upgraded to Scorpions HMITs (since block 30/32 was upgraded much earlier than this article came out)? Like I said Im not an expert but Thales systems seems to be more advanced than JHMCS (made by joint venture of Collins and Elbit) especially in A-G mode right? Please correct me if Im wrong

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Easy way to tell between jhmcs and scorpion is the sensor location for scorpion is at the top of the canopy like on this blk 30.

 

eL16Zuu.png

 

Yeap..that's the magnetic tracker for the scorpion system. Which we are replacing with stickers(on canopy) and a camera on the helmet for tracking. This is known as the the "Hobit" or Hybrid-Optical Inertial Tracking(HObIT).

 

 

 

Edited by JFC3000GT
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btw, its Scorpion HMCS, not JHMCS.

 

It's actually called HMIT(Helmet Mounted Integrated Targeting)...yeap many acronyms..lol. We are replacing these as I said on the earlier post.

 

 

-I'm an Avionics Tech in Homestead ARB. Our F-16 are block 30's and even though they are old, there's always something getting upgraded on them.

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It's actually called HMIT(Helmet Mounted Integrated Targeting)...yeap many acronyms..lol. We are replacing these as I said on the earlier post.

 

 

-I'm an Avionics Tech in Homestead ARB. Our F-16 are block 30's and even though they are old, there's always something getting upgraded on them.

 

Saw the HObIT on the jets that were in Vegas a few weeks back.

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