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After the Gazelle, buy another Polychop Helo worth the risk?


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After the Gazelle, buy another Polychop Helo worth the risk?  

146 members have voted

  1. 1. After the Gazelle, buy another Polychop Helo worth the risk?

    • Yes
      82
    • No
      30
    • Maybe, undecided.
      34


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Never had a problem with the Gazelle once i took the time to master it... mostly because I didnt expect it to fly like a Huey or an Mi-8. To me, it behaves exactly as a lightweight helicopter should. I've yet to see anyone who has actually flown a gazelle say 'wait, this is nothing like reality'.

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Never had a problem with the Gazelle once i took the time to master it...

 

As I have said, Gazelle is fun to fly when you fly it unlike anything else, you ignore the experiences and skills flying helicopters and you just fly Gazelle as it is.

I wouldn't call "learn to master it" about it, more like a "learn to accept it as is".

 

mostly because I didnt expect it to fly like a Huey or an Mi-8.

 

And how you would expect it to fly?

 

To me, it behaves exactly as a lightweight helicopter should.

 

These arguments were made previously in the years back, "it is lightest helicopter in DCS, it flies totally differently than any other helicopter that are just heavier!"

 

 

So how you would expect THAT thing to fly?

 

The argument you have made is:

 

Gazelle is much lighter than X, so it is expected to it fly differently than heavier helicopters by controls.

 

How about when a Mosquito is MUCH lighter than Gazelle, how is it expected to fly differently than much heavier Gazelle by controls?

 

I've yet to see anyone who has actually flown a gazelle say 'wait, this is nothing like reality'.

 

So lets make a hypothetical question.

If a person has experience, lets say a 8000 hours with 20+ different kind helicopters but never Gazelle, that all range from much lighter and smaller to much heavier and larger than Gazelle, and all of them has the same control and flight principles, then what would a that person say about Gazelle flight characteristics and controls in DCS if it is totally different than anything else that person has ever flown?

 

One aircraft that I would personally love to see in DCS, is the Robinson R22, because if it would be made well, it would help many to train in helicopter flight school.

But as DCS is about military aircrafts (mainly), R44 would be nice option for that as many militaries use it for their flight training as well.

 

So what you think about that? Because Gazelle is so lightweight helicopter, that the basic principles don't apply to it? What makes Gazelle so special from all other traditional helicopters that it defies physics? What was the reason that Polychop was required to say that they are going to "fix Gazelle" after Kiowa Warrior, if it is fine as is? Like are they now going to change the Gazelle something unrealistic that it shouldn't be?

 

Understand the controversial opinions here when current product status is what it is, and the upcoming product shows the same traits that are to be "fixed"?

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Having to revisit this thread again for moderation as posts are being reported by users, some of you just repeat the same over and over and it is getting to troll levels. Please bare this in mind when replying, no one likes toxic posting and those who do are not welcome here.

 

Treat each other with respect, please read the forum rules, if I have to start handing out warning's I will, lets hope it does not come to that.

 

thanks

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Never had a problem with the Gazelle once i took the time to master it...

 

As I have said, Gazelle is fun to fly when you fly it unlike anything else, you ignore the experiences and skills flying helicopters and you just fly Gazelle as it is.

I wouldn't call "learn to master it" about it, more like a "learn to accept it as is".

 

 

 

And how you would expect it to fly?

 

 

 

These arguments were made previously in the years back, "it is lightest helicopter in DCS, it flies totally differently than any other helicopter that are just heavier!"

 

[CUT RIDICULOUSLY LONG WAFFLE WITH NO DIRECT CITATION OF ANY DIRECT EVIDENCE CONCERNING THE REAL LIFE GAZELLE]

 

Here's a question for you to waffle a response on:

 

What are your precise qualifications to judge the aerodynamic capabilities and flight dynamics of this aircraft?

 

To make it easier for you, I'll help you break it down by using sub-questions:

 

1. Do you have a CPL or equivalent helicopter license?

1b. How many hours?

 

2. Was any of it in a Gazelle?

2b. How many hours?

 

 

3. If not, was it in a helicopter similar to a Gazelle - similar weight, power, rotor system, and with the same sorts of flight controls, autopilot and stability enhancements? Please state model and type.

 

4. Do you hold a degree in Engineering, in particular Aeronautical engineering?

 

I ask these things because you have decided to open an interrogation upon me, and my statement, when you are not the original poster, and I was not responding to you, so I feel its best I know whom I am being interrogated by. Also, I think many who've come across this post, and your many, many long-winded replies to people that never asked your opinion, are keen to know.

 

Dont be shy, lay it out, so we can play it out. Otherwise, stick with writing war and peace to people directly responding to you - the masochists that want to be brow-beaten with your nagging opinion.

 

Look forward to the summary of your qualifications.


Edited by Ironwulf
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@Fri13

 

I don't get what you are trying to achieve here.

 

So you do not get it, so let me clarify it for you....

 

If you are trying to point out flaws with the Gazelle, why?

 

Yes, you do not get it. Let me clarify it for you....

 

This thread is about Kiowa Warrior, not about Gazelle itself.

The purchase decision people are to make for Kiowa Warrior is simple question:

 

Does the existing Gazelle flight modeling and input problems be in the Kiowa Warrior as well, or have they found a way to develop a helicopter physics and input system so that Kiowa Warrior does fly if just as traditional helicopter, but even better if very close if not exactly like a real Kiowa Warrior?

 

To you answer for that question, you need to know that what are the problems (if there are such). People here are buying Kiowa Warrior for many reasons, some buy it because it makes nice sound, some like the 3D model, some like the things go "boom" and wants to do it with hellfires, laser guided rockets etc. And some wants to FLY a Kiowa Warrior as its flight characteristics, the upsides and downsides, all of it.

 

Now, how does those people who purchase a module based the accuracies in flight modeling, make that decision is the Kiowa Warrior worth to buy? Do they just take a word from it that "Everything is all right in my opinion" like relative to what? Or do they take a leap of faith "They promised that it will be most accurate ever made" or something?

 

The question needs to but in the context, first one needs to understand what are these talked problems and errors in Gazelle, and then what it is in the Kiowa Warrior itself.

We only get to see Kiowa Warrior in the videos, as it is not released yet for Open Beta.

But with videos we can do some risk evaluation and comparisons to existing modeling method.

 

If someone say "You are just "rivet counters" and don't know nothing, Gazelle is perfect!" then they need to explain that why it is perfect as much as we have explained what are the problems in it.

How can those people make any decision about the Kiowa Warrior, if they do not even understand the problems in Gazelle? Because "It sounds so cool" or "because Hellfires, YEAH!"? Those wouldn't be reasoning at all that Kiowa Warrior flight modeling is correct!

Neither is "I am fine with everything, as long I get Kiowa Warrior".

 

 

They have already publicly acknowledged those flaws and said they will be updating it after the KW is released.

 

Yes, yes, and yes...

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4513472&postcount=19

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4188208&postcount=6

 

Say something that I have not already stated, multiple times even in this thread?

 

You have provided nothing new that hasn't already been said.

 

Okay, please quote the posts that raise the concerns about Kiowa Warrior flight modeling by showing the moments in the Kiowa Warrior videos and comparing it to the current Gazelle behavior.... Please... really pease do so!

 

If you do have new info of a bug that hasn't been raised and acknowledged, raise a bug report.

 

How to make a bug report about unreleased Kiowa Warrior?

Have you read this THREAD SUBJECT?

 

"After the Gazelle, buy another Polychop Helo worth the risk?"

 

Do need help to understand that?

Please explain how are you going to make the risk evaluation without knowing, understanding and comparing Gazelle problems to ANY traditional helicopter, and then to little information there is to Kiowa Warrior module?

 

If you are trying to say that the KW is going to be flawed, what are you basing this on?

 

If you would read my posts, you would understand. It is explained there. So go to read them first and then come back, as you have your answers.

 

Until YOU have flown it you have no idea and even then its YOUR OPINION!

 

Yes, I have said that I don't have that module and I have only the videos, and clearly said that I am making MY OPINIONS based to the evidence that Polychop has made possible with their public flight demos, and comparing that current Gazelle.

 

If a X fly incorrectly with the control inputs.

And then a Y flies with similar control inputs in similar conditions, then what are the conclusions or questions you can make from it if the X is incorrect by physics?

 

You do realise they have actual KW pilots not only providing info but actually flying the thing, providing feedback and even making videos.

 

Yes, and you do realise I have brought this up:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4515946&postcount=54

 

And you do understand that Polychop had that exact same argument made with Gazelle, that all their advisors and real pilots said that it is 100% accurate and proper and perfect etc?

 

Again, why did they change their assurances from Gazelle flight modeling _after years_ of saying otherwise, to that it needs to be fixed/changed with the new methods to fix the problems?

 

Are you saying that your opinion based on a 10 month old video of a very early build that will bear very little resemblance to what we will get our hand is more valuable than actual pilot feedback? Logical Fallacy - Fallacy of composition ;)

 

No, it is not fallacy. As I have clearly stated that it is 10 month old video, as it is evidence that Polychop itself has provided, we can do that same comparison as well with 6 months old video:

if that makes you merrier.

If you can have link to videos with the control input box that are under month old, please do so. We can discuss more about it.

 

And if you think that Gazelle flight modeling is in _very early build_ 10 months ago, then are they going to release the Kiowa Warrior in 2025?

And how do you know that the video is nothing like the Kiowa Warrior we are going to get?

 

That's not a right hand roll due to control input, that's Transverse flow effect! The other movements you can hardly see as they are very slight so how do you know how it handles?

 

Have you not followed the whole discussion at all? Have you not flown the Gazelle in DCS already and looked its control input box comparing it to its flight modeling?

Go and start doing some research, please....

 

Just join the discord and/or ask people who actually know what they are talking about instead of spewing assumption based on nothing.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4517801&postcount=97

 

The irony of you using that video to say the FM is the same as the Gazelle but ignoring the part in the video where Shiftie says "this handles nothing like anything in DCS, nothing like the Gazelle" is amazing!

 

That doesn't mean ANYTHING, especially when SAME TRAITS ARE VISIBLE!

Gazelle FLIES LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, and statement said "nothing like gazelle" means NOTHING.

 

And I am not ignoring it, because if you would have read my comment on another thread, you would find out that I have said exactly that same thing.... That it is scary because the person says "Nothing like gazelle" with the same control input traits...

 

I get that buying a module that doesn't work can be frustrating and we are all passionate about the sim but to be honest it looks to me like you have an agenda here.

 

Agenda, what is that agenda now you talk about. As I have no agenda. Now you have made that claim, please provide the evidence for that agenda.

 

You are providing nothing but your assumptions

 

That is incorrect, please provide the evidence if you think otherwise.

 

you were even invited to a discord to talk to REAL KW PILOTS, you refused all while spewing hatred towards Polychop.

 

Were I?

 

Let's see the post...

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4517758&postcount=91

 

Do you see my name in that post?

Do you see it ANYWHERE in it?

 

And hatred?

Please provide the posts where I say I hate them, that I even closely "spew hatred toward" polychop?

 

Please, PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE FOR YOUR CLAIMS!

 

I am waiting your apology for your false accusations....

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Never had a problem with the Gazelle once i took the time to master it...Here's a question for you to waffle a response on:

 

What are your precise qualifications to judge the aerodynamic capabilities and flight dynamics of this aircraft?

 

Strawman argument.

 

To make it easier for you, I'll help you break it down by using sub-questions:

 

1. Do you have a CPL or equivalent helicopter license?

1b. How many hours?

 

Strawman argument.

 

2. Was any of it in a Gazelle?

2b. How many hours?

 

Strawman argument.

 

 

3. If not, was it in a helicopter similar to a Gazelle - similar weight, power, rotor system, and with the same sorts of flight controls, autopilot and stability enhancements? Please state model and type.

 

Strawman argument.

 

4. Do you hold a degree in Engineering, in particular Aeronautical engineering?

 

Strawman argument.

 

I ask these things because you have decided to open an interrogation upon me, and my statement, when you are not the original poster, and I was not responding to you, so I feel its best I know whom I am being interrogated by.

 

You are trying to make a personal attacks, nothing more. You made claims about your opinions, I asked you to explain them because you are a official beta tester.

It is not interrogation as you claim, https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4518216&postcount=104

 

If you make illogical claims, then be ready to be questioned your logic. It is not personal when it is about argument.

 

Also, I think many who've come across this post, and your many, many long-winded replies to people that never asked your opinion, are keen to know.

 

Personal attack. You can do better, please do so.

If you do not wish to be talked by anyone else in the room, move to private space and have your discussion there, in private.

If you come to public place, you are open to be talked by anyone else in that room, even if you do not say something to specific person.

 

Do you understand what the "forum" means?

Let me quote you the definition:

 

a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

 

When you enter to the thread with a public reply, you are part of the forum of that topic. Anyone can talk to you, or you can talk to anyone. You are not here holding a private discussion with everyone else, you saying "I didn't reply to you, so you can't talk to me!".

If you want to talk to someone without anyone else hearing/reading your comment, do it so privately.

 

Dont be shy, lay it out, so we can play it out.

 

So you build personal attacks and then you want to "play it out"?

 

Otherwise, stick with writing war and peace to people directly responding to you - the masochists that want to be brow-beaten with your nagging opinion.

 

If you have no respect, you don't read their posts, and then you will even skip them to make your claims while they have already been answered in the text that you didn't have respect to even read in the first place.

 

Look forward to the summary of your qualifications.

 

If you can't do it without personal attacks, then it is better that you do not write anything.

As you have demonstrated that you can't, I don't even need to reply you as you can't stay in the topic but you go to person.

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Hi all,

 

you have all given feedback, this thread is going in circles now and I am getting constant forum reports from all sides.

 

Take a break, enjoy some flying

 

thanks

  • Like 1

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  • 8 months later...
On 7/1/2021 at 6:41 AM, RealDCSpilot said:

Thanks to the new free-to-play program, any risk has been removed.

True story.

  • Like 1

 

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Posted (edited)

I found this video useful and am enjoying the gaz now for what it is. The pilot who did fly a gaz (341) as part of training says the FM needs some work, but the main culprit that keeps people from enjoying the gaz is the cyclic bug and a misunderstanding of light helos. So you get the acknowledgment that the FM isn’t accurate and needs a good bit of work, but the module is still fun as long as you adjust the saturation levels of the cyclic. Personally I also made the rudder pedal Y saturation more sensitive. And you fly with micro inputs, and should rest your arm/hand so that you’re only using your wrist and fingers to use the cyclic 


Edited by S. Low
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