After the Gazelle, buy another Polychop Helo worth the risk?

Ironwulf · October 9, 2020

Never had a problem with the Gazelle once i took the time to master it... mostly because I didnt expect it to fly like a Huey or an Mi-8. To me, it behaves exactly as a lightweight helicopter should. I've yet to see anyone who has actually flown a gazelle say 'wait, this is nothing like reality'.

Fri13 · October 9, 2020

Never had a problem with the Gazelle once i took the time to master it...

As I have said, Gazelle is fun to fly when you fly it unlike anything else, you ignore the experiences and skills flying helicopters and you just fly Gazelle as it is.
I wouldn't call "learn to master it" about it, more like a "learn to accept it as is".

mostly because I didnt expect it to fly like a Huey or an Mi-8.

And how you would expect it to fly?

To me, it behaves exactly as a lightweight helicopter should.

These arguments were made previously in the years back, "it is lightest helicopter in DCS, it flies totally differently than any other helicopter that are just heavier!"

So how you would expect THAT thing to fly?

The argument you have made is:

Gazelle is much lighter than X, so it is expected to it fly differently than heavier helicopters by controls.

How about when a Mosquito is MUCH lighter than Gazelle, how is it expected to fly differently than much heavier Gazelle by controls?

I've yet to see anyone who has actually flown a gazelle say 'wait, this is nothing like reality'.

So lets make a hypothetical question.
If a person has experience, lets say a 8000 hours with 20+ different kind helicopters but never Gazelle, that all range from much lighter and smaller to much heavier and larger than Gazelle, and all of them has the same control and flight principles, then what would a that person say about Gazelle flight characteristics and controls in DCS if it is totally different than anything else that person has ever flown?

One aircraft that I would personally love to see in DCS, is the Robinson R22, because if it would be made well, it would help many to train in helicopter flight school.
But as DCS is about military aircrafts (mainly), R44 would be nice option for that as many militaries use it for their flight training as well.

So what you think about that? Because Gazelle is so lightweight helicopter, that the basic principles don't apply to it? What makes Gazelle so special from all other traditional helicopters that it defies physics? What was the reason that Polychop was required to say that they are going to "fix Gazelle" after Kiowa Warrior, if it is fine as is? Like are they now going to change the Gazelle something unrealistic that it shouldn't be?

Understand the controversial opinions here when current product status is what it is, and the upcoming product shows the same traits that are to be "fixed"?

BIGNEWY · October 9, 2020

Having to revisit this thread again for moderation as posts are being reported by users, some of you just repeat the same over and over and it is getting to troll levels. Please bare this in mind when replying, no one likes toxic posting and those who do are not welcome here.

Treat each other with respect, please read the forum rules, if I have to start handing out warning's I will, lets hope it does not come to that.

thanks

Ironwulf · October 9, 2020

Never had a problem with the Gazelle once i took the time to master it...

As I have said, Gazelle is fun to fly when you fly it unlike anything else, you ignore the experiences and skills flying helicopters and you just fly Gazelle as it is.
I wouldn't call "learn to master it" about it, more like a "learn to accept it as is".

And how you would expect it to fly?

These arguments were made previously in the years back, "it is lightest helicopter in DCS, it flies totally differently than any other helicopter that are just heavier!"

[CUT RIDICULOUSLY LONG WAFFLE WITH NO DIRECT CITATION OF ANY DIRECT EVIDENCE CONCERNING THE REAL LIFE GAZELLE]

Here's a question for you to waffle a response on:

What are your precise qualifications to judge the aerodynamic capabilities and flight dynamics of this aircraft?

To make it easier for you, I'll help you break it down by using sub-questions:

1. Do you have a CPL or equivalent helicopter license?
1b. How many hours?

2. Was any of it in a Gazelle?
2b. How many hours?

3. If not, was it in a helicopter similar to a Gazelle - similar weight, power, rotor system, and with the same sorts of flight controls, autopilot and stability enhancements? Please state model and type.

4. Do you hold a degree in Engineering, in particular Aeronautical engineering?

I ask these things because you have decided to open an interrogation upon me, and my statement, when you are not the original poster, and I was not responding to you, so I feel its best I know whom I am being interrogated by. Also, I think many who've come across this post, and your many, many long-winded replies to people that never asked your opinion, are keen to know.

Dont be shy, lay it out, so we can play it out. Otherwise, stick with writing war and peace to people directly responding to you - the masochists that want to be brow-beaten with your nagging opinion.

Look forward to the summary of your qualifications.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Ironwulf

Fri13 · October 9, 2020

@Fri13

I don't get what you are trying to achieve here.

So you do not get it, so let me clarify it for you....

If you are trying to point out flaws with the Gazelle, why?

Yes, you do not get it. Let me clarify it for you....

This thread is about Kiowa Warrior, not about Gazelle itself.

The purchase decision people are to make for Kiowa Warrior is simple question:

Does the existing Gazelle flight modeling and input problems be in the Kiowa Warrior as well, or have they found a way to develop a helicopter physics and input system so that Kiowa Warrior does fly if just as traditional helicopter, but even better if very close if not exactly like a real Kiowa Warrior?

To you answer for that question, you need to know that what are the problems (if there are such). People here are buying Kiowa Warrior for many reasons, some buy it because it makes nice sound, some like the 3D model, some like the things go "boom" and wants to do it with hellfires, laser guided rockets etc. And some wants to FLY a Kiowa Warrior as its flight characteristics, the upsides and downsides, all of it.

Now, how does those people who purchase a module based the accuracies in flight modeling, make that decision is the Kiowa Warrior worth to buy? Do they just take a word from it that "Everything is all right in my opinion" like relative to what? Or do they take a leap of faith "They promised that it will be most accurate ever made" or something?

The question needs to but in the context, first one needs to understand what are these talked problems and errors in Gazelle, and then what it is in the Kiowa Warrior itself.

We only get to see Kiowa Warrior in the videos, as it is not released yet for Open Beta.

But with videos we can do some risk evaluation and comparisons to existing modeling method.

If someone say "You are just "rivet counters" and don't know nothing, Gazelle is perfect!" then they need to explain that why it is perfect as much as we have explained what are the problems in it.

How can those people make any decision about the Kiowa Warrior, if they do not even understand the problems in Gazelle? Because "It sounds so cool" or "because Hellfires, YEAH!"? Those wouldn't be reasoning at all that Kiowa Warrior flight modeling is correct!

Neither is "I am fine with everything, as long I get Kiowa Warrior".

They have already publicly acknowledged those flaws and said they will be updating it after the KW is released.

Yes, yes, and yes...

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4513472&postcount=19

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4188208&postcount=6

Say something that I have not already stated, multiple times even in this thread?

You have provided nothing new that hasn't already been said.

Okay, please quote the posts that raise the concerns about Kiowa Warrior flight modeling by showing the moments in the Kiowa Warrior videos and comparing it to the current Gazelle behavior.... Please... really pease do so!