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Case III Recovery Qustions


SharpeXB
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Some dumb questions...

Is the ILS in Stable version working right now?

I set it, turn it on but don’t see the needles

 

Does the final course given to you account for the angled deck? The normal Case I BRC is the course of the boat, what about Case III?

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1. You need to turn on ICLS, set it to the correct channel and then box the ILS option on the HSI.

 

2. Yes. the final bearing you get in CASE III comms does account for the angled deck.

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When mother tells you BRC, it's the heading of the carrier (more likely when flying visual i guess), when she says Final Bearing (using ILS approach i guess), is the angled deck strip and Radial is the 180 (reciprocal) of the Final Bearing (for now as they don't brief us to the offset approach).

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I set it, turn it on but don’t see the needles

Are you sure you truly have it turned on? What has caught me more than a few times is you need to BOTH turn on the ICLS in the UFC (press ILS button below keypad, then the ON/OFF button so that ON shows in the UFC) AND you need to select the ICLS OSB just below the TCN on your HSI DDI page. I usually forget the 2nd one and wonder where my bars are

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I’ve got both those selected and I see the needles, but they remain fixed on my velocity vector, just off center of it. I’ll have to post a screenshot. They don’t move like it seems they should.

 

the needles are fixed to my vv no matter where I point it. It’s not like a normal ILS where I could see the glide slops falling if I’m flying level.


Edited by SharpeXB

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Should the vv be caged or uncaged?

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You definitely want to be uncaged for landing, so that the TVV is representing your accurate flight path.

 

I'll frequently cage it for the overhead turn in a Case I and II approach to keep it from pulling off the side or below the HUD, and then uncage as soon as I roll out into the groove.

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I’ve got both those selected and I see the needles, but they remain fixed on my velocity vector, just off center of it. I’ll have to post a screenshot. They don’t move like it seems they should.

 

the needles are fixed to my vv no matter where I point it. It’s not like a normal ILS where I could see the glide slops falling if I’m flying level.

 

Would it be possible for you to upload a video of it? And maybe the miz in question. It sounds really strange indeed.

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You definitely want to be uncaged for landing, so that the TVV is representing your accurate flight path.

 

I'll frequently cage it for the overhead turn in a Case I and II approach to keep it from pulling off the side or below the HUD, and then uncage as soon as I roll out into the groove.

Right, that’s what I understand. The VV now seems to not be independent of the ILS needles.

For example the M-2000C has similar HUD symbology and you gotta put the thing on the thing on the thing, I get that.

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So here's what I'm noticing, the localizer bar stays fixed on my VV even though I'm deviating right and left, it's hard to use it for guidance because it's not giving me any feedback as to my course. normally I'd expect this to move right to left as I try to align on it.

In "loc1" I can see it offset from far away but closer to the course line any deviation is imperceptible. I'm 2.9 miles off the course line which is just showing as a small deviation on the HUD

In "loc2" I realize I'm on the localizer path so it's centered and you can see from the course arrow and red light that I'm not lined up, but there's no drift from the localizer bar as I'm approaching which helps with lining this up. The bar just moves with the VV. The LRLLS is a better course guide

loc1.thumb.jpg.e2f4681e243d7e46e9f1f6fec581f604.jpg

loc2.thumb.jpg.61a93aec0560a34721725e76cde70607.jpg

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So here's what I'm noticing, the localizer bar stays fixed on my VV even though I'm deviating right and left, it's hard to use it for guidance because it's not giving me any feedback as to my course. normally I'd expect this to move right to left as I try to align on it.

In "loc1" I can see it offset from far away but closer to the course line any deviation is imperceptible. I'm 2.9 miles off the course line which is just showing as a small deviation on the HUD

In "loc2" I realize I'm on the localizer path so it's centered and you can see from the course arrow and red light that I'm not lined up, but there's no drift from the localizer bar as I'm approaching which helps with lining this up. The bar just moves with the VV. The LRLLS is a better course guide

 

 

LOC2, Personaly what i do is, i follow the tacan, until i get the ICLS on final bearing (i admit i do the offset radial approach, not the straight final bearing one), once ICLS shows and i'm between 10 and 8 nm, i start flying the ICLS localiser. The tacan will always be offset right closer you get to the ship, my guess is the Tacan is located on the taller antenna on the island?. but i might all be wrong.

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  • 4 months later...
On 9/29/2020 at 1:43 PM, Doum76 said:

When mother tells you BRC, it's the heading of the carrier (more likely when flying visual i guess), when she says Final Bearing (using ILS approach i guess), is the angled deck strip and Radial is the 180 (reciprocal) of the Final Bearing (for now as they don't brief us to the offset approach).

So this is the answer I was looking for I think, in all the docs and even some of the turtorials the Marshal radial is NOT the reciprocal of the Final Bearing it is offset. Am I right in my assumption that currently in DCS the Marshall and Final Bearing will always be reciprocals of each other and there is no offset for the stack therefore you can in fact just fly the Final Bearing for the entire procedure, or have I misunderstood?


Edited by zildac

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8 hours ago, zildac said:

Am I right in my assumption that currently in DCS the Marshall and Final Bearing will always be reciprocals of each other and there is no offset for the stack therefore you can in fact just fly the Final Bearing for the entire procedure, or have I misunderstood?

 

You're correct. At the moment in DCS the Final Bearing will always be the reciprocal of the Marshal Radial. 

 

That's apparently not very realistic, and offset marshal stacks are probably something that we'll get eventually. 

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42 minutes ago, Bunny Clark said:

You're correct. At the moment in DCS the Final Bearing will always be the reciprocal of the Marshal Radial. 

 

That's apparently not very realistic, and offset marshal stacks are probably something that we'll get eventually. 

Thanks for confirming 👍

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On a side note, the thing that puts me off Case III is the 4 hour (exagerated 😛 ) push time.  Is there any way to change this.

I know the die hards will be spitting their coffee out reading this, but it would be great to be given the details and declare when ready.

 

I understand landing 14 planes in RL is complicated to plan, but half the time it's just me and my wingman.

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It's usually only been about 10 minutes from calling Inbound to the actual push time in the few I've tried thus far, which for me gives me enough time to remind myself what the heck I'm supposed to be doing 😁 I guess you could always just commence the descent after one Marshal circuit or none if you want, not sure that it affects the outcome in DCS currently?


Edited by zildac

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you can always tell the TWR via the COMM menu that you are "commencing". after one, two or even no holding patterns in the marshal stack. DCS doesnt care about the pushtime and there are no peneltaies if you disregard the pushtime and even fly straight in

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Thanks for the above comments.  I'll get back into it then.  When the Hornet first came out one of my final advanced ratings were zero visibility night landings from 7 of miles out, straight in.  Obviously that wouldn't happen unless dire circumstances but for me, it's the pinnacle of flying and SO hard to pull off.

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I have a question about CASE III departures, regarding if you launch from the carrier in the totally opposite direction of where you then are supposed to go, the departure heading I mean.

According to the procedures I have read you are intercept the 10nm arc and then follow it until you reach the departure radial, in the case Im describing you will need to travel along the arc for one half circle, 180 degrees.

 

That takes a significant amount of time, is this how its done in real life or would you just follow the arc a little bit to a departure radial and then some miles outside of the 10nm circle turn to the "real" departure heading to avoid traveling along the whole half circle at limited 300 kts according to the procedures?


Edited by Fisherman82
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I dont know how it's done in the real military world, but I think the reason for the procedure is to:

1. flying the whole procedure (7NM, intercept 10NM DME arc, 300kts, IC radial) could be necessary to keep you clear of the recovery area (marshal)

2. to direct you into the mission area

3. keep things in an orderly manner

 

I guess ATC can always give you vectors according to the inbound traffic and to get you in the mission area as fast as possible

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I've been noticing lately that the ILS needles used to be pretty representative of the ball but now they aren't.  For instance, you can have the needles completely centered but the ball will be high.

 

If I continue to fly the needles I usually will not get a three wire.  But if I follwo the ball I will.  They used to coincide but lately they don't.

 

v6,

boNes

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