Remove the Auto Start Cheat

[BuzzU]

You have the choice to pay or not. If your not going to be happy with the product, don't buy it. You can easily ask if it has your required options.

 

If I was selling campaigns i'd try and please as many buyers as possible. Wouldn't you?

[SharpeXB]

but it's more effort for the mission designer.

Sure it’s more effort but it creates a better experience playing the mission. But they’ve stopped putting in the effort since it’s not getting used. So eventually ED will follow the same logic and stop putting full systems into the modules.

 

You can go into any custom mission you like, select the player aircraft, and under the first waypoint change it from 'hot start' or 'start on runway' to 'start on ramp.'

Yes but you may screw up the scripting and timeline if all the other AI are on the runway an take off without you. Like you said above it had to be scripted into the mission.

 

If I was selling campaigns i'd try and please as many buyers as possible. Wouldn't you?

And the way to appease everyone is with a cold ramp start. Then if anybody wants to skip that and Auto Start they can. But if the mission has a hot start forced into it there’s no other choice.

Edited September 27, 2020 by SharpeXB

[BuzzU]

Yup.

Edited September 27, 2020 by BuzzU

[gavagai]

SharpeXB wins the argument. Any single player campaign mission should ramp start because you can always auto start afterward.

 

Telling someone to edit a paid campaign for rampstarts is not acceptable.

[Gladman]

If I was selling campaigns i'd try and please as many buyers as possible. Wouldn't you?

 

I'd say jmarso's post sums it up about as good as you can get it. Beyond that, it could be the creator prefers one way to the other. Again, vet the product and choose to support or not. The free market will take care of the rest.

[SharpeXB]

it could be the creator prefers one way to the other.

The creator is either being lazy or just being pragmatic about the fact that DCS has become full of “gamers” who don’t really want a simulation.

 

I’m sure about 90% of DCS gamers can’t start the aircraft or do anything besides fly it into the ground and gawk at the graphics or whatever.

[BIGNEWY]

closed for moderation

 

Edit:

 

Thread reopened.

 

A reminder to all, keep to our forum rules, please do not derail the thread, keep it to the threads topic, treat everyone with respect when posting.

 

thank you

Edited September 27, 2020 by BIGNEWY

[Gladman]

The creator is either being lazy or just being pragmatic about the fact that DCS has become full of “gamers” who don’t really want a simulation.

 

I’m sure about 90% of DCS gamers can’t start the aircraft or do anything besides fly it into the ground and gawk at the graphics or whatever.

 

You could be correct, however it doesn't change the reality of your having little to no control over it and it being very unlikely to change.

 

I like the manual start myself, it helps me get into the mood, but I won't complain about a person spending countless hours to build me a mission or set of mission to fly. Again, you can let the free market work itself out, if you don't like the product, don't buy it.

[bart]

I’m sure about 90% of DCS gamers can’t start the aircraft or do anything besides fly it into the ground and gawk at the graphics or whatever.

 

If that's the way they want to play DCS that's their choice I guess. They purchased DCS modules the same as I did, and they are entitled to play DCS their way, just the same as we/I am entitled to play it my way.

 

From a personal perspective, I don't even know what the key binding is for Auto Start, never used it. That should say which side of the fence I am on, but that's just me. That's how I choose to play DCS, it's the realism and accuracy that keeps me coming back.

 

DCS also caters for all tastes too, you just need to look at FC3 aircraft. Personally I don't have any FC3 aircraft on my list, but again that's just me.

 

Horses for courses I guess.

[BuzzU]

Gladman......No way to look at it until you buy it.

Edited September 27, 2020 by BuzzU

[BIGNEWY]

No way to look at it until you buy it.

 

If it is a paid campaign ask the developer in their forum section, I am sure they will be happy to answer questions.

 

thanks

[Worrazen]

Kinda agree with the OP, just not with the conclusion because it most likely won't be practically possible.

 

Here's a way:

 

Paid missions/campaigns could have a requirement by ED to come with cold-start or both flavors, as part of the 3rd-party license.

 

ED should make this easier by providing as part of the ME and mission system overhaul a new feature to support such flavors more easily by adding support for mission modifier system which would enable a Mission Designer to modify part of a mission without needing to create two separate missions.

 

The User would select the modifier/flavor (cold or hot start, etc) before loading the mission (at mission planner screen makes sense, planner waypoints and imagery would change accordingly).

 

ED would provide the Mission Designer-s (public info / docs) average estimated time of how long it takes to complete a cold-start procedure for all user pilotable aircraft. Perhaps even time estimates for Beginner, Average and Expert levels as well.

 

DCS could further use these fixed estimations together with a new system that would calculate in real-time in ME how long would a parked cold-start aircraft in a particular airfield slot take time to start rolling down the runway, taking taxiing and traffic and other predictable factors into account, it's a bit complicated of a feature but it should be really helpful with that.

 

Then the Mission Designer would be able to use these estimations however he pleases, perhaps put his own extra delay on top of that to make the mission easier for beginners in the beginning, or none.

 

This whole thing may actually be one part of a new mission difficulty system, time crunch, among other things like ammo, fuel, AI difficulty, customizable separately, again using the mission modifier system without the User needing to edit the mission and without the Mission Designer needing to produce a separate mission file.

 

For example you could as a User, customize, multiple difficulty settings (modifiers) that the Mission Designer has sprinkled into the mission, controlling whether you want hot or cold start, how much ammo will your buddy have at this or that point, how much enemies will attack you when enemy's reinforcements come, etc, the possibilities are endless.

 

What a great opportunity really.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Worrazen

[SharpeXB]

If it is a paid campaign ask the developer in their forum section, I am sure they will be happy to answer questions.

It’s not just 3rd party campaigns succumbing to this simplified format.

 

From the F/A-18C manual

“ Cold Start

There are two methods you can use to start a cold and dark Hornet. The first, and easiest, is the Auto- Start. By pressing [Left Win + Home], the aircraft will be started automatically for you. To cease the Auto-Start, you can press [Left Win + End].

Being a DCS title though, the Hornet really shines when you take advantage of the detailed systems modeling, like manually starting the aircraft. ”

 

And yet Eagle Dynamic’s own official campaign for the Hornet features it starting hot on the catapult every flight :doh:

Edited September 27, 2020 by SharpeXB

[Gladman]

Gladman......No way to look at it until you buy it.

 

Youtube tells all.

[Steel Jaw]

If you don't like it don't use it.

I hate FC3 modules on MP servers because they're to easy in my opinion so I avoid those servers...simple.

 

 

This. Air Quakers on the MP servers are a scourge.

[BIGNEWY]

It’s not just 3rd party campaigns succumbing to this simplified format.

 

From the F/A-18C manual

“ Cold Start

There are two methods you can use to start a cold and dark Hornet. The first, and easiest, is the Auto- Start. By pressing [Left Win + Home], the aircraft will be started automatically for you. To cease the Auto-Start, you can press [Left Win + End].

Being a DCS title though, the Hornet really shines when you take advantage of the detailed systems modeling, like manually starting the aircraft. ”

 

And yet Eagle Dynamic’s own official campaign for the Hornet features it starting hot on the catapult every flight :doh:

 

I will pass on your feedback, but understand I cannot promise anything. Please also note that some other users will not share your opinion.

 

thanks

[SharpeXB]

Please also note that some other users will not share your opinion.

I don’t see the problem. There’s an Auto Start for those who don’t want to start manually.

 

And I can’t possibly be the only DCS player who likes to start up the aircraft.

[MAXsenna]

I don’t see the problem. There’s an Auto Start for those who don’t want to start manually.

 

 

 

And I can’t possibly be the only DCS player who likes to start up the aircraft.

You're not. I like it too!

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Buzzles]

I don’t see the problem. There’s an Auto Start for those who don’t want to start manually.

 

And I can’t possibly be the only DCS player who likes to start up the aircraft.

No, you're not, and it's exactly what Autostart is for.

Most missions (included+DLC) should start cold and dark if appropriate, so we can either do full manual start or use Auto.

[Paganus]

Good on ya, for posting your feedback for the content creators, but making demands to have it only your way, is not going to fly, so to speak.

 

As for those community members so quick to throw around the “gamer” or “air quake” labels, you’re only kidding yourselves if you think ED doesn’t value them (also paying customers) just as much as they do you.

 

This does get my vote for favorite ED forum rage thread of the day though.

[Harzach]

No because it’s a sarcastic attention grabber :music_whistling:

 

1.14 It's forbidden to create threads/topics containing in their title/body:

 

- hyperbolic, rude or strong language

 

AKA "clickbait."

[SharpeXB]

AKA "clickbait."

Well I can’t change the title. It’s not what I really meant. A mod can change it if they like.

Having an Auto Start cheat should actually make creating ramp start missions more palatable for everyone since you can choose. Right now we have no choice.

[Shimmergloom667]

I don’t see the problem. There’s an Auto Start for those who don’t want to start manually.

 

And I can’t possibly be the only DCS player who likes to start up the aircraft.

 

You are not. Starting the Jet manually is integral to my enjoyment of a long mission.

[Qiou87]

Although I personally agree with the fact that cold & dark is the best for my enjoyment, I see problems in the way the game is working right now. Many things are timed on the time in the game, for example other planes launching etc. There are huge time differences between start times, due to game updates (INS being the major time difference, depending on the availability of fast alignment or not, or the choice of the pilot to not wait for full alignment if doing only A/A...) and simply player proficiency. Imagine someone doing the startup with a guide on his knees, slowly, and compare that to someone who has 50 flight hours in the jet already and just goes through the procedure very fast. Even the "auto-start" cheat is very slow in comparison to a proficient player.

 

So whilst I support wholeheartedly to have this option in all missions, mission & campaign creators need an easy way to avoid that this option breaks their missions due to the large time differences in jet start procedures from one player to the next and from one game patch to the next. Some seem to manage this with triggers, but it needs to be quite easy to use - the quantity of missions available is already a problem in this game, making it more difficult to create them is clearly not a desirable outcome.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Qiou87

[Nealius]

Not sure if anyone's mentioned it before, but in hot/runway/air starts, the aircraft's systems and switches may not be set to the user's preferences. This is one major reason I like cold starts: I can assure that everything necessary is on, everything unnecessary is off, and certain preferences are set.