Display scale in Cockpit or in setting

[Phil C6]

Hi screens are bigger and bigger, so with big screens we could set the FOV for get scale 1:1

Should be great to get an indication on the screen of how configure it for have real size.

By ex display something with known measure (size and angle) a lign of 20cms in the cockpit by ex and just verify the mesure on the screen and modify the Fov for get it correspond)

 

 

I'm not sure to be clear, if you have question let me know

 

 

Best regards

[draconus]

It will be 1:1 only for certain distance from where you sit. With 6DOF - when you bring your head closer to monitor the cockpit parts will get bigger but you'll also see bigger screen and everything what is displayed changing angular sizes.

 

VR solves this problem by having natural scale with constant screen distance all the time.

 

I just use my hand before me as a reference to cockpit switches and stick. If you have cockpit measurments you can use that to calculate it more exactly.

Edited September 23, 2020 by draconus

[Phil C6]

It will be 1:1 only for certain distance from where you sit. With 6DOF - when you bring your head closer to monitor the cockpit parts will get bigger but you'll also see bigger screen and everything what is displayed changing angular sizes.

 

 

 

 

Hi thx for answer, yes I noticed this effect but it should be better than nothing to get this size reference for the center of the screen

 

 

 

VR solves this problem by having natural scale with constant screen distance all the time.

 

I just use my hand before me as a reference to cockpit switches and stick. If you have cockpit measurments you can use that to calculate it more exactly.

 

 

Yes I imagine but for now i have TV screen and don't know when I'll can get VR so it should be great to get the realistic hud size and plane size (and maybe block the max zoom)

 

 

 

Best regards

[SharpeXB]

All you need to know is your FOV which the service menu FPS thingy can tell you.

[Phil C6]

All you need to know is your FOV which the service menu FPS thingy can tell you.

 

 

Ok it's a wishlist guys, maybe you don't need it?, ok personnally I would like set my screen for get realistic size of target on my screen

I already know my FOV but I don't know the real angular view of the HUD so yes I would like get a scale mark

I imagine it should be easy for ED

The other solution should ED tell us the exact size of HUD for each plane (they could easily get it from the 3d cockpit).

 

 

Best regards

[SharpeXB]

Ok it's a wishlist guys, maybe you don't need it?, ok personnally I would like set my screen for get realistic size of target on my screen

I already know my FOV but I don't know the real angular view of the HUD so yes I would like get a scale mark

I imagine it should be easy for ED

The other solution should ED tell us the exact size of HUD for each plane (they could easily get it from the 3d cockpit).

 

 

Best regards

Check out some tutorials for this from racing sims. Those players do it because FOV affects your perception of speed. They usually have triple monitors if they do this too. You just need to equate your monitor FOV to the one in the game. But there’s not a scale in racing sims in order to do this, it’s just done with FOV.

[=4c=Nikola]

Ok it's a wishlist guys, maybe you don't need it?, ok personnally I would like set my screen for get realistic size of target on my screen

I already know my FOV but I don't know the real angular view of the HUD so yes I would like get a scale mark

I imagine it should be easy for ED

The other solution should ED tell us the exact size of HUD for each plane (they could easily get it from the 3d cockpit).

 

 

Best regards

 

It's not that we do not need it. All information you need are already available. It's 2 min job to set it up.

 

Example:

Screen is 60cm wide and player sits 100cm from it.

 

FOV=2(Tan^(-1)(60/2/100)) = ~33degrees.

 

Ingame, open service menu pressing twice RCTRL + Pause, read ingame FOV and adjust to match calculated one.

Edited September 24, 2020 by =4c=Nikola

[Phil C6]

Hi, you are right, great thx very much

 

Best regards

 

PS: it's it possible to limit the max zoom by lua?

[SharpeXB]

PS: it's it possible to limit the max zoom by lua?

Yes but I don’t recall exactly how. If you’re using an axis for the zoom you can use the tuning menu saturation (or whatever it’s called)

[=4c=Nikola]

It is possible:

 

1. You need to copy server.lua from Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Config\View folder to Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\View

 

2. Then, you open server.lua located in Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config\View

and add view entry for your module of choice. It's easiest to go to DCS World\Mods\aircraft\aircraft of choice\View.lua and copy existing view profile.

 

3. You edit CameraViewAngleLimits = {20.000000,140.000000}, to achieve min and max FOV you want.

 

4. You find correct reference code for the aircraft you are editing by going to DCS World\Mods\aircraft\aircraft of choice\Entry.lua and read make_view_settings value.

 

 

Examples:

 

ViewSettings["F-16C_50"] = {
Cockpit = {
[1] = {-- player slot 1
	CameraViewAngleLimits  = {20.000000,140.000000},
	CockpitLocalPoint      = {3.259,0.796,0.0},
	CameraAngleRestriction = {false,90.000000,0.500000},
	CameraAngleLimits      = {200,-90.000000,90.000000},
	EyePoint               = {0.05000,0.100000,0.000000},
	ShoulderSize		   = 0.25,
	Allow360rotation	   = false,
	-- limits_6DOF            = {x = {-0.13,0.30},y ={-0.06,0.16},z = {-0.18,0.18},roll = 90.000000},
	limits_6DOF            = {x = {-0.17,0.45},y ={-0.30,0.10},z = {-0.22,0.22},roll = 90.000000},
},
}, -- Cockpit 
Chase = {
	LocalPoint      = {-5.0,1.0,3.0},
	AnglesDefault   = {0.000000,0.000000},
}, -- Chase 
Arcade = {
	LocalPoint      = {-21.500000,5.618000,0.000000},
	AnglesDefault   = {0.000000,-8.000000},
}, -- Arcade 
}

ViewSettings["FA-18C_hornet"] = {
Cockpit = {
[1] = {-- player slot 1
	CameraViewAngleLimits  = {20.000000,140.000000},
	CockpitLocalPoint      = {3.533,1.156,0.0},
	CameraAngleRestriction = {false,90.000000,0.500000},
	CameraAngleLimits      = {200,-90.000000,90.000000},
	EyePoint               = {0.05000,0.100000,0.000000},
	ShoulderSize		   = 0.25,
	Allow360rotation	   = false,
	limits_6DOF            = {x = {-0.10,0.30},y ={-0.3,0.060},z = {-0.20,0.20},roll = 90.000000},
	-- limits_6DOF            = {x = {-0.13,0.30},y ={-0.3,0.065},z = {-0.18,0.18},roll = 90.000000},
},
}, -- Cockpit 
Chase = {
	LocalPoint      = {-5.0,1.0,3.0},
	AnglesDefault   = {0.000000,0.000000},
}, -- Chase 
Arcade = {
	LocalPoint      = {-21.500000,5.618000,0.000000},
	AnglesDefault   = {0.000000,-8.000000},
}, -- Arcade 
}

Edited September 24, 2020 by =4c=Nikola

[Phil C6]

Hi, thx a lot

Edited December 13, 2020 by Phil C6

[Phil C6]

Hi shouldn't be great to can use automatically this formula in DCS so we should put screen size and distance to the screen in DCS setting page and like that DCS should configure automatically max zoom setting to this value (so it limit the zoom setting to something realistic for almost people who want play realistic)?

Best regards

Edited December 13, 2020 by Phil C6

[=4c=Nikola]

It would indeed, but I guess it's so low on priority list they're not even thinking about it.

[Bowie]

Not sure if this is the same issue or not - but the aircraft are not visible (w/o zooming in) past ~ 1.4 miles.

 

Fly mostly War Birds on Realistic, and I don't use labels. (nor am I a cyborg w/ zoom-able eyeballs, so I don't use that function, either)

 

The 28" 4K monitor should render War Birds visible at 3-5 miles.

 

I use the 1x [Enter] key as default.

 

Same problem?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

Bowie

[draconus]

17 hours ago, Bowie said:

Same problem?

No. It's not about visibility/rendering but the world scale. You don't change zoom whenever you feel like seeing things better but you want to set it once for your setup to render the right scale. No fisheye. No tele. Just as you would see if it was an empty frame.

[Bowie]

10 hours ago, draconus said:

No. It's not about visibility/rendering but the world scale. You don't change zoom whenever you feel like seeing things better but you want to set it once for your setup to render the right scale. No fisheye. No tele. Just as you would see if it was an empty frame.

 

Like the sound of that.

 

See people zooming all the time on vids, like cyborgs.

 

Call that cheating.

 

But a visual range of 1.4 miles on a warbird isn't right, either.

 

 

 

 

Bowie

Edited December 22, 2020 by Bowie

[SharpeXB]

14 hours ago, Bowie said:

 

See people zooming all the time on vids, like cyborgs.

 

Two things to consider here

FOV. The real world is a lot bigger than what you see on your screen and if you were to set your FOV to a life sized value it will be way too narrow for this kind of sim ie flight. Racing sim players do this but they’re all just focused on the track and not looking around, plus they probably have triple screens. 
Resolution. Even 4K is very far short of real world acuity so the only way to make up for that is to make the image you’re seeing larger. Again more of an issue for flight sims since we are trying to see and ID small distant objects

The “zoom view” isn’t a “cheat” it’s a necessary tool to simulate real world 20/20 vision on a PC screen. It’s not unique to DCS, every flight sim has this feature. The fact that you’re not using it is why you can’t see the other aircraft at reasonable distances. 
Finally, it’s not an “exploit” because it’s self limiting, you’re just trading one advantage for another, detail vs FOV. Many games have an adjustable FOV and it’s not considered a cheat to change that value. 

[Bowie]

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Two things to consider here

FOV. The real world is a lot bigger than what you see on your screen and if you were to set your FOV to a life sized value it will be way too narrow for this kind of sim ie flight. Racing sim players do this but they’re all just focused on the track and not looking around, plus they probably have triple screens. 
Resolution. Even 4K is very far short of real world acuity so the only way to make up for that is to make the image you’re seeing larger. Again more of an issue for flight sims since we are trying to see and ID small distant objects

The “zoom view” isn’t a “cheat” it’s a necessary tool to simulate real world 20/20 vision on a PC screen. It’s not unique to DCS, every flight sim has this feature. The fact that you’re not using it is why you can’t see the other aircraft at reasonable distances. 
Finally, it’s not an “exploit” because it’s self limiting, you’re just trading one advantage for another, detail vs FOV. Many games have an adjustable FOV and it’s not considered a cheat to change that value. 

 

That may be.

 

But never had to zoom CFS2.

 

3-5 mi. was still a discernible A/C.

 

A speck at a mile just isn't right.

 

Have flown through furballs that were just a few thousand feet above or below me, and was not able to see them.

 

Had to use the map/altitude cheat.

 

 

 

 

Bowie

Edited December 22, 2020 by Bowie

[SharpeXB]

45 minutes ago, Bowie said:

But never had to zoom CFS2.

 

3-5 mi. was still a discernible A/C.

 

A speck at a mile just isn't right.

 

Have flown through furballs that were just a few thousand feet above or below me, and was not able to see them.

 

Can’t say anything regarding CFS3 except it’s a different game so it’s not relevant to DCS 

WWII aircraft are very discernible for me at 3-5 mi in DCS even at a wide FOV. Depending on the situation ie contrast with background. 
The default wide FOV in DCS is way too large IMO for a 16:9 screen, it’s quite fish-eyed and it seems to me it was intended for triple monitors. I have it set at about 70% in the axis tuning. 

[draconus]

2 hours ago, Bowie said:

A speck at a mile just isn't right.

It's just a feeling or a result of some calculations of yours I'd gladly see?

 

@SharpeXBDepending on screen size and distance we can get "retinal" resolution with 4k or even lower resolution screens but not with our eye's FoV. For that we need future VR sets.

Edited December 22, 2020 by draconus

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

 

@SharpeXBDepending on screen size and distance we can get "retinal" resolution with 4k or even lower resolution screens but not with our eye's FoV. For that we need future VR sets.

 

In order to not perceive the pixels on your screen you’d have to sit farther away or have a much smaller monitor than most any player has. At normal sizes and distances 4K doesn’t get to “retina” level. Your own eyes can tell you this. I think an Apple iMac claims this for a 27” 5K screen. 
On a 28” 4K screen I could definitely perceive pixels and needed antialiasing to smooth out the image. 
Don’t hold your breath waiting for VR to get there... it will be a decade or so...

Edited December 23, 2020 by SharpeXB

[Bowie]

23 hours ago, draconus said:

It's just a feeling or a result of some calculations of yours I'd gladly see?

 

Can stand in the road in front of my office, and look down it to an elevated highway exactly 1.25 miles away.

 

Can distinguish motorcycles, compact from full size automobiles, including color.

 

Can almost read the writing on the side of a semi-tractor trailer.

 

Could distinguish type and attitude of a War-Bird fighter easily as well.

 

In DCS it's a speck.

 

 

 

 

Bowie

[draconus]

33 minutes ago, Bowie said:

In DCS it's a speck.

Ok, have you already set real FoV or you still see your whole cockpit on your tiny monitor? I mean the render engine is not wrong - it keeps the proportions - but you can set the scale how you wish. Take for example a module with pilot body - do you find it proper size if you look at hands or legs?

Edited December 23, 2020 by draconus

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Bowie said:

 

Can stand in the road in front of my office, and look down it to an elevated highway exactly 1.25 miles away.

 

Can distinguish motorcycles, compact from full size automobiles, including color.

 

Can almost read the writing on the side of a semi-tractor trailer.

 

Could distinguish type and attitude of a War-Bird fighter easily as well.

 

In DCS it's a speck.

 

 

 

 

Bowie

You’re looking at a computer monitor here, not the real world. The difference should be obvious. 

[Bowie]

12 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

You’re looking at a computer monitor here, not the real world. The difference should be obvious. 

 

Computers - can render anything they want to.

 

So why not RW?

 

 

 

 

Bowie

17 hours ago, draconus said:

Ok, have you already set real FoV or you still see your whole cockpit on your tiny monitor? I mean the render engine is not wrong - it keeps the proportions - but you can set the scale how you wish. Take for example a module with pilot body - do you find it proper size if you look at hands or legs?

 

 

I use the default [Enter] setting.

 

 

 

 

Bowie

Edited December 24, 2020 by Bowie