"Mutual Support" 2v2 BVR Tournament v2 - 9/26/2020

[dundun92]

INTRO

 

Mutual Support is a 2v2 BVR Tournament. Naturally, the smaller team sizes often lead to more aggressive and interesting fights that are focused on solid mutual support.

Various editions of it will have various rulesets based on the approximate time era chosen; this edition is 2000s themed.

DATE AND TIME

This second edition of Mutual Support will start at 2030z on September 26, 2020. The running time will be no greater than 3 hrs. If this is exceeded, the competition will be resumed one of the the following Saturdays at a similar time, based on the teams preference.

Registration ends on September 24th.

 

 

OBJECTIVES AND TOURNAMENT STYLE

Each match is conducted as best of three rounds. The objective is to destroy all enemy aircraft (by doing so preventing them from RTBing), and still be able to RTB to the designated base. Note that enforcing the RTB is up to the loosing team; if they want they can tell the winning team to simply respawn.

The competition is a knockout-style competition, with teams being eliminated after loosing a 3 round match. Time permitting, looser of the first round of fights will participate in a separate championship.

RULES

 

1. A single team may be comprised of as many pilots as desired; however, only two may be used at a time.
   
2. Only one pilot is allowed to change between rounds (note that for the F-14, changing RIOs is allowed as much as desired).
   
3. Aircraft types may not be changed between rounds. Weapons loadout, however, can be.
   
4. Mixed fleets of aircraft are allowed (e.g, one F-18C and one J-11A).
   
5. All spawns are ground spawns separated by 100-120nm.
   
   
6. Either of the spawn airbases is a valid RTB airbase
   
7. The competition will be on Caucasus; there are two different arenas that will be alternated between rounds: Anapa-Maykop, and Kutaisi-Tiblisi. The map used first will be determined randomly.
   
8. There is an engagement zone centered on the RTB airbase. This engagement zone will extend out to the spawn bases. You must stay within this engagement zone at all times; if you exit it you will be removed from the fight and cannot participate further.
   
9. Weapons employment from outside the engagement zone is not permitted.
   
10. You may not RTB/Respawn after takeoff. On the other hands, valid problems such as game crashes of a player will constitute a reason to restart the fight. Note that a restart for these reasons is only permitted within 5 minutes of takeoff. This also can only be done once per MATCH (not per round).
    
11. Ping limit of 300 is server-enforced.
    
12. Lonewolfs are allowed; the pairings are to be decided automatically the day before the matchup, and will stay that way for the tournament. Alternatively, you may decide on the pairings yourselves; in that case, simply state the agreed pairings no later than September 25th at 2300z.
    
    
13. AWACS will be present, but will NOT have datalink enabled [up for discussion: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4485523&postcount=18].
    
14. To keep the event running smoothly, I would ask that suggestions/questions be kept until the end of the event, unless they are relevant to/will affect the remaining rounds (e.g, concerns about excessive lag/rubber banding).
    
15. One squadron may enter up to 2 primary teams. Any further teams will be put on a reserve roster to allow space to accommodate more teams. If a team cannot show up, or registration is not full by registration end, reserve teams will be moved to the primary roster.
    
    
16. More Rules TBD
    

WEAPONS RESTRICTIONS

This edition features a roughly 2000s rule set with some exceptions.

The BANNED weapons are: AIM-9X [up for discussion], Nukes.

Restricted weapons are: AIM-120 (all variants) to 4 total, AIM-54 (all variants) to 4 total.

 

 

COMMUNICATION

All team captains must be present on the Alamo Squadron Teamspeak (server info below) during play.

IP: 73.32.85.67

PW: 5775

Questions are to be asked either in PMs, or on this thread.

 

 

STREAMING AND PRIZES

There is no anticipated stream as of RN. If you would want to volunteer DM me.

There are no prizes, its simply for the fun of it!

 

 

 

REGISTRATION

Registration format is as follows:

[Team Name]

Player #1

Player #2

Player #3

...

As an example

Alamo Squadron

Alamo 1-1 | dundun92

Alamo 1-2 | Dankguy

 

 

There will be a limit of 16 teams.

 

 

OTHER RESOURCES

For those that may be interested, but may not be familiar with 2v2 BVR, the 2v1, 2v2, and Tactical Intercepts of "Fighter Combat: Tactics and Maneuvering" are very informative. It is widely available as a PDF online.

Edited September 15, 2020 by dundun92

[dundun92]

-reserved for future info-

Prelimnary .miz

 

REGISTERED TEAMS (7/16):

 

Alamo Squadron

GTAG Squadron I

64th Aggressors I

64th Aggressors II

Eclipse Task Force

Flow3r/TAW_Savior/Redhotita1

GTAG Squadron II

 

 

RESERVE TEAMS:

 

 

None

 

 

TOURNAMENT BRACKETS

 

 

 

Mutual Support 2000s -- Caucasus_Kut_Tibl.miz

Edited September 25, 2020 by dundun92

[dundun92]

Alamo Squadron

Alamo 1-1 | dundun92

Alamo 1-2 | Dankguy

[Flow3r]

Please, keep the 9x out, we're kill the merge with that thing

[KingKenny04]

After watching 14th VFS' stream and talking with some of the guys in the last comp, I think the question of whether you have AWACS or not comes down to how realistic you want your mission to be. If you want to see realistic tactics and tacform, I would argue AWACS and GCI are a necessity. The fact is that in a real scenario, BLUFOR will almost always have AWACS with datalink, and REDFOR will almost always have GCI with datalink. Datalink isn't a god's eye view minimap, and if you're using it as such you have a poor idea of what SA is and how to use and maintain it in your gameplan. That said, most NATO aircraft had AMRAAMs before they had MIDS terminals, so having AWACS/GCI without datalink isn't totally outside the realm of plausibility. Intentionally flying AWACS at low altitudes where their coverage is obscured by mountains is absolute arcadey gamey BS and at that point you may as well ditch them entirely.

 

I would argue that not having AWACS forces players to fly unrealistic tacform and tactics. Without the support of a second section or the SA provided by AWACS/GCI, you're either preventing a section from ever skating (as they'll lose SA) and thus forcing them artificially to always banzai, or you're forcing the element to split into two singletons in order to maintain SA. In the former case, you're preventing the section from implementing a realistic BVR timeline and instead treating BVR as an extra annoying obstacle before getting to the merge. In the latter case, you're splitting up the section and defeating the purpose of flying a two-ship. In both cases, my opinion is that the fight becomes just another dogfight deathmatch arena with different starting conditions.

 

If you don't care about realistic tactics and doctrines, you can do whatever you want in the name of balance. But if you want to see realistic section tacform and BVR timelines, you need to consider these things.

[dundun92]

Good points but Im not trying to force "realistic" BVR. I am all for RL tactics when they work, but I have no problem doing "gamer" tactics if they actually work in game. I have no issues getting slow to notch AMRAAMs simply because it works in DCS. I couldnt care less that IRL youd obviously never do it.

As for the AWACS idea yes looking at that its quite ridiculous, its just one of those random ideas that pops up that I thought I'd put out there. Also regardless of how AWACS should be used 99% of people use it as a "god's eye view minimap" anyway, and I want to discourage that. IMO allowing full AWACS DL just encourages bad radar mech, and things like this is what I personally like being used. Also I dont think unrealistic tactics forces a merge; if you look at the tacview its "BVR" missile shots that won matches, not BFM fights. This imo isnt about balance, Im just not one of those people thats trying to force super "realistic" BVR. But thanks for the input, its more stuff to think about.

Edited September 13, 2020 by dundun92

[Marauder.exe]

Please, keep the 9x out, we're kill the merge with that thing

 

Well at this point we're not talking about exercising BVR, we're just racing to the merge and keeping it there. That's what 9X and the R-73/AA-11 are there to do: discourage the merge and increase the lethality of the tactic.

 

If that is what you're after (just closing to a merge and fighting BFM), that's fine, but that is definitely NOT what BVR is, and i would argue that at that point you should just go fly one of the multitudes of other BFM tournaments or dogfight server.

[Papa Saubär]

GTAG Squadron I

 

 

[GTAG] Papa Saubär

[GTAG] Gozar71

 

 

Reserve:

[GTAG] Night Raid

[GTAG] Ice

 

 

See you in the sky!

Edited September 15, 2020 by Papa Saubär

[dundun92]

Please, keep the 9x out, we're kill the merge with that thing

I would agree 9X makes merges a shoot to win, but with 120Cs at least personally I dont see merges being a super big issue. At least thats my take. With 120B rulsets I definitely wouldnt include 9Xs. I personally dont mind either way.

[TaoHermit]

64th Aggressors

<64>TaoHermit

<64>NoWheels

[Krippz]

64th Aggressors

<64>Combz

<64>Fox - RIO

<64>Krippz

Edited September 13, 2020 by Krippz

[E-TF[101] Breeze]

Eclipse Task-Force

 

E-TF[101] Breeze

 

E-TF[119] Riker

 

E-TF[136] Dizzy

Edited September 15, 2020 by Breeze[Thunder 69]

[dundun92]

64th Aggressors

<64>Combz

<64>Fox - RIO

<64>Krippz

Just to confirm, is this a second seperate entry from TaoHermit's? (not that I mind, just verifying)

[Flow3r]

Flow3r

TAW_Savior

 

We have no team name

[Krippz]

Just to confirm, is this a second seperate entry from TaoHermit's? (not that I mind, just verifying)

 

Yes separate team.

[Bishop_DE]

GTAG Squadron II

 

 

[GTAG] Sundown

[GTAG] Bishop_DE (RIO)

[GTAG] ari

Reserve: [GTAG] Rightstuff

 

See you in the sky!

Edited September 15, 2020 by Bishop_DE

[dundun92]

GTAG Squadron III

 

 

[GTAG] NightRaid

[GTAG] Cptflash

[GTAG] Rightstuff

 

 

See you in the sky!

Hi, for the sake of leaving room for more squadrons, I will ask that teams have a limit of two primary entries. Any further entries would be put on a reserve list, in the event that a team couldnt show up, or if it isnt full by the deadline.

 

 

Also, since there seems to be a lot more interest in this than I expected I will open up the max # of teams to 16. This does mean that the competition will likely not be completed in one day, and may have to be rolled over into a following Saturday at a similar time.

[Marauder.exe]

I would suggest forcing Battle Damage Assessment to off in the mission file if you're planning on keeping D/L limited to F/F as that can unintentionally give some very critical SA.

[Flow3r]

that's why i love people taking iniciative in dcs interest :)

[dundun92]

I would suggest forcing Battle Damage Assessment to off in the mission file if you're planning on keeping D/L limited to F/F as that can unintentionally give some very critical SA.

I will do that, thanks.

[Papa Saubär]

For the reasons mentioned above, we are withdrawing participation with our 3rd team.

[Flow3r]

Redhotita1 is signing up with us, so now is:

 

Flow3r

TAW_Saviour

Redhotita1

[dundun92]

Just a reminder that registration ends tomorrow, so for anyone interested, now is your chance!

Also, as far as weapons restrictions, the 9X will be banned, and AWACS will have EPLRS/Datalink disabled.

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[dundun92]

With registration now closed, here are the preliminary tournament brackets:

These do not include the optional rounds for those who go out on the first round.

Edited September 25, 2020 by dundun92

[Flow3r]

Sadly both me and savior will not able to attent for the event tomorrow, real life stuff for me that i can't just drop to play, sorry for that, i really mean. I wish you guys to have fun