What about DLSS 2.1 in DCS?

[YoYo]

What about DLSS 2.1 in DCS?

Will we finally see it here? :)

 

DLSS is becoming a major feature for NVIDIA, with version 2.0 just released, the new 2.1 revision is already being worked on. DLSS is now coming to VR as well.

 

DLSS 2.1 technology support for virtual reality was announced by NVIDIA. Expectations are high, as this feature allows you to significantly increase game performance without compromising graphical detail.DLSS 2.1 offers a new Ultra-Performance mode for 8K games, according to the company. NVIDIA claims DLSS 2.1 will enable the GeForce RTX 3090 to render games in 8K with the new 9x upscaling capability. In other words, in reality the game will be rendered at 1440p (2560 × 1440 pixels) and then scaled up to 7680 × 4320 on the fly using AI. As you might guess, Wolfenstein: Youngblood is one of the first games to get this feature on GeForce RTX 3090.

 

NVIDIA announced that the new DLSS 2.1 will bring Virtual Reality, 8K and dynamic resolution support. The introduction of DLSS 2.1 will help deliver more immersive virtual reality titles on next-gen headsets. VR headsets typically deliver a constant 90 FPS frame rate at resolutions up to 2880x1600, and some like the Valve Index take it up to 144. DLSS technology will allow VR games to be rendered natively to half resolution and intelligently scaled to ensure high quality and FPS.

 

How does DLSS 2.1 work?

NVIDIA Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS), is a deep learning technique developed by NVIDIA that uses artificial intelligence to enhance rendered frames. This technology, which must be added individually on a game-by-game basis, enables a significant performance boost by running the game at a lower resolution and by scaling the image with a nearly identical level of detail. This technology is based on the Tensor Cores, which are present in the GPUs of the RTX 20/30 series, which allows a performance increase of up to 70% .

 

 

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-dlss-2-1-technology-will-feature-virtual-reality-support.html

[Eaglewings]

DLSS sound so exciting especially for vr enthusiasts like me.

It looks so promising as you would not need beefy gpu to comfortably run dcs world in vr.

If Ed implements DLSS, this could drive up demand for nvidia cards.

[FoxTwo]

Don't hold your breath.

 

 

ED is working on Vulkan support.

[Eaglewings]

Don't hold your breath.

 

 

ED is working on Vulkan support.

Can't we have both worlds? i.e DLSS and Vulkan?

[Mr_sukebe]

Hopefully in the next gen game engine.

[Motomouse]

DLSS is trained on a supercomputer by NVidia per game engine.

 

I would prefer for DCS a solution where the central view area is rendered in a higher resolution than the outer view areas. 3x3: render 8 fields in performance resolution and only render the middle field in full resolution. That would be a huge performance gain with still a very good image quality (sweet spot ...) in VR. Perhaps even an overall better image quality, because you gain performance in the peripherie to be spend where it really counts. I can imagine a test implementation where you render the image first in the lower quality and in a second run only the central view area in the higher resolution.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Motomouse

[FoxTwo]

Can't we have both worlds? i.e DLSS and Vulkan?

 

 

No?

[YoYo]

Hopefully in the next gen game engine.

 

I hope to live still ;).

[Eaglewings]

No.

 

 

 

 

I would be very happy to be proven wrong but I don't see a new engine being adopted anytime in the next five years (or maybe even ten).

 

5-10year away? Depressing.

 

I thought transition to Vulkan is in progress and a switch to this would come sooner than that.

It means we will continually invest in higher end hardware side to enjoy the sim in it fullest.

 

Hoping for the best anyhow.

[speed-of-heat]

DLSS is an nVidia specific technology, in the past ED has tried to avoid tying people to specific hardware

[Resection]

DLSS is an nVidia specific technology, in the past ED has tried to avoid tying people to specific hardware

 

 

Is this still true? If so it seems a very odd attitude when nVidia has a significant majority of the market share for dedicated graphic cards. Nick Grey talked about about a new render engine that is in development. As statistically most DCS users are likely to have nVidia cards they would not be doing their customers a service if they do not use nVidia technology to its full extent in the new engine.

 

VR in DCS is really not good at the moment and it needs to use any technology available to improve its performance. I come from iRacing and I don’t remember users complaining about nVidia specific technology such SPS and SMP being used.

 

I am desperate to upgrade to the 3000 series of cards for VR but am worried that DCS world will not use them to anywhere near their potential.

[speed-of-heat]

no idea if it is still true or not, nut it certainly matches observed historical behavior

[Eaglewings]

DLSS is an nVidia specific technology, in the past ED has tried to avoid tying people to specific hardware

I have read about something like this before.

But really, if ED can, they should.

More positives for dcs users compare to the negatives.

[wormeaten]

Maybe AMD got something to say with Radeon Image Sharpening. Its in essence AMD's DLSS and it is opensource so could be used without licenses.

 

That si the major problem with Ngreedia they want to monetize everything.

[hansangb]

Is this still true? If so it seems a very odd attitude when nVidia has a significant majority of the market share for dedicated graphic cards. Nick Grey talked about about a new render engine that is in development. As statistically most DCS users are likely to have nVidia cards they would not be doing their customers a service if they do not use nVidia technology to its full extent in the new engine.

 

VR in DCS is really not good at the moment and it needs to use any technology available to improve its performance. I come from iRacing and I don’t remember users complaining about nVidia specific technology such SPS and SMP being used.

 

I am desperate to upgrade to the 3000 series of cards for VR but am worried that DCS world will not use them to anywhere near their potential.

 

 

 

 

So ED is supposed to lift the middle finger to the "other camp"? Also, another problem is that you're hitching your wagon to a vendor who may or may not make wholesale changes. And if that happens, then what? Or what if the Red team's gear takes off and becomes the dominant vendor. ED has to retool to support that? Before you say "that'll never happen" there was a time when WordPerfect and Lotus 123 ruled the world.

 

 

 

Sticking with an open standard that everyone supports is the wiser strategy. The onus is on Nvidia to make the adoption as easy as possible.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see all the fancy new things nvda comes out with in DCS. But I completely understand ED's position as well.

[Resection]

So ED is supposed to lift the middle finger to the "other camp"? Also, another problem is that you're hitching your wagon to a vendor who may or may not make wholesale changes. And if that happens, then what? Or what if the Red team's gear takes off and becomes the dominant vendor. ED has to retool to support that? Before you say "that'll never happen" there was a time when WordPerfect and Lotus 123 ruled the world.

 

 

 

Sticking with an open standard that everyone supports is the wiser strategy. The onus is on Nvidia to make the adoption as easy as possible.

 

I am certainly not suggesting upsetting the other camp as my example of iRacing and Nvidia demonstrates. AMD users were kept happy but Nvidia users were slightly happier!

 

I agree NVidia’s market dominance and performance lead will probably not continue for ever. Let’s hope the release of Big Navi exceeds everyone’s expectations. I myself have no brand loyalty and have switched between Intel/AMD and NVidia/AMD before. However given the current market position I don’t think there is much onus on Nvidia to help with the adoption of an open standard no matter how laudable that aim may be.

 

DCS should be showcase of what VR can offer so I want good performance on both AMD and Nvidia cards. However DCS performance in VR is so behind the curve of current games I think something needs to be done now and Nvidia have the cards and the tools to make that happen. By not using the new technology DCS is going to fall further behind customer expectations. Yes having to “retool” in the future is a risk but there is also a risk in not adapting quickly enough to the current situation.

[speed-of-heat]

i guess a lot will depend on how transparent the support for DLSS is in Vulkan ... we know that is where ED is putting its dev investment on Graphics, and that is where i would expect there to be the largest possibility of uplift

Edited September 11, 2020 by speed-of-heat

[Resection]

Fingers crossed!

[hansangb]

I am certainly not suggesting upsetting the other camp as my example of iRacing and Nvidia demonstrates. AMD users were kept happy but Nvidia users were slightly happier!

 

I agree NVidia’s market dominance and performance lead will probably not continue for ever. Let’s hope the release of Big Navi exceeds everyone’s expectations. I myself have no brand loyalty and have switched between Intel/AMD and NVidia/AMD before. However given the current market position I don’t think there is much onus on Nvidia to help with the adoption of an open standard no matter how laudable that aim may be.

 

DCS should be showcase of what VR can offer so I want good performance on both AMD and Nvidia cards. However DCS performance in VR is so behind the curve of current games I think something needs to be done now and Nvidia have the cards and the tools to make that happen. By not using the new technology DCS is going to fall further behind customer expectations. Yes having to “retool” in the future is a risk but there is also a risk in not adapting quickly enough to the current situation.

 

 

 

 

I'm all for better performance. But honestly, my Reverb runs just fine for me. I haven't tried it with my new cpu/MB, but I didn't have any issues running it. And I don't really use it for anything other than DCS so I don't know.

 

 

I have MS2020 so I guess I'll find out!

[[zcd]dARKtROOPER]

I would really love to see DLSS (and the alternatives after that ) coming to DCS!

 

I think DLSS has quite matured till now and is currently feasible integratable and offers true benefits and would be more than just a boost for performance in VR but also in PR for DCS.

 

Some day then we might enjoy 90+FPS in 8K VR -. and stuff like this really helps!!!

 

(Please spare me the negating comments, I have read them all pre posting this   and stuff like this is cool:

but I would love to see dedicated Hardware enlighten the DLSS and Rendering and on my RTX3090).

 

with respect and kind regards,

Marc

 

[AKA_Clutter]

On 9/10/2020 at 6:39 AM, speed-of-heat said:

DLSS is an nVidia specific technology, in the past ED has tried to avoid tying people to specific hardware

This is my understanding as well.  Also with AMD's FSR that is non-GPU brand specific that would seem more likely.

[[zcd]dARKtROOPER]

Would be ok also - but it will leave the specialized Tensor Cores wasted - still better then none of them if it works in VR .

Edited September 14, 2021 by [zcd]dARKtROOPER

[Resection]

Its one year since I participated in this conversation and I now have my 3080 graphics card that I was desperate for. I am much happier and VR is much more enjoyable however it is still a compromise with details needing to be reduced and still struggling for steady frames on some maps and missions. Like others I do not feel I am getting the full benefits of my graphics card in VR.

 

It seems now that upscaling is becoming more mainstream and is offered by both major graphic card vendors. Surely it is a technology that ED must be seriously looking at for DCS and VR. It would be good to know this is on their roadmap for future developments. Waiting for the next generation of graphics cards or headsets is frustrating when there is an existing "software" solution that would give us the extra performance now.

 

DCS is an amazing experience in VR but it could be so much better.

[[zcd]dARKtROOPER]

I have pretty much the same to say, it would be a great opertunity to bump up speed with existing hardware, actually use the potential of the GPU (its not always in the 90% utilisation) and the reconing of DCS - it could also implement FSR since they seem to coexist just fine. I will try and see if this works, since there are benchmarks out there of people using a 30xx with dlss and fsr in comparison, maybe it will work

Mod bringt AMDs Fidelity FX Super Resolution für SteamVR (mixed.de)

or directly GitHub - fholger/openvr_fsr: Add FidelityFX SuperResolution to SteamVR games

but its not on par with the DLSS solution in speed and quality.

Edited September 16, 2021 by [zcd]dARKtROOPER

[[zcd]dARKtROOPER]

Just tested it with the default settings in the FSR mods cfg file with DCS - does not provide a high difference - at first glance it might reduce about 0.5ms on the GPU frame times which in both cases hangs around 69% utilisation and gets to about 50 FPS once moving on the base /air (Persion Gulf, Cold Start, F 18, 8KX 100% Resolution). On the other hand it looks like the cpu is just a little bit slower with FSR and actually seems to limit the FPS since its frame times crawl up a tiny bit, which in the none FSR are normally just below the GPU.  In both cases its just one thread on the CPU spiking and maybe 4 in total. The GPU also has head room, so not sure what is slowing down the frame times - but this was just a fast unscientific test (clouds are different etc.).

 

The image did become a bit more uneasy, there are "circular moir effects" on the concret just in front of the aircraft when starting it up with FSR and the image seems more unstable/busy, without FSR it is not as much noisy and it is easier on the eye. Also the "Circular" FSR Focus area is noticable or better the outside which is lower and not upscaled in resolution on the 8KX with default values, but would be barable if it would pimp the frame times more.

 

So more tuning i guess to get a benefit, but since it will not do AA with FSR... not sure how much effort that is worth it.

Also the single core spikes start to be a problem in general to the higher FPS.. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by [zcd]dARKtROOPER
edit of last sentence