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50 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

 

Can you explain? I thought Discord (unlike facebook, etc) was what the channel operators hosted - and uncensored apart from the owners of the channel? (I could be wrong - I'm not a discord guru mind you).  You've gotten a few likes to your comment so I'm guessing there's something I've missed. Is Discord censored politically in the same way that Facebook is?

 

 You didn't miss anything. They don't enforce any ideology. I don't know what he was talking about, but my guess is that the devs voiced an opinion on something.

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Posted (edited)

 

 

11 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

 

Can you explain? I thought Discord (unlike facebook, etc) was what the channel operators hosted - and uncensored apart from the owners of the channel?

  It is.

 

Quote

(I could be wrong - I'm not a discord guru mind you).  You've gotten a few likes to your comment so I'm guessing there's something I've missed.

  Nope, just people with a persecution complex.

 

Quote

Is Discord censored politically in the same way that Facebook is?

  In 99.9% of cases, stuff is policed by local moderators, same as any other discussion board. Including Facebook, for that matter, where individual ''groups'' are policed by whoever the local moderators/community are (thus the existence of closed groups of shall we say highly illegal nature at times). IE posting against the grain in a given group is likely to make waves not because of the ''site'' but because that specific community dislikes it, or publicly visible comments may get flagged by observers.

 

  When people start ranting about ''censorship'' it inevitably seems to be about them posting increasingly unpopular views, and then acting surprised when they get pushback  and that somehow this equates ''persecution/censorship''.

 

 

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Edited by Mars Exulte
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18 hours ago, Mars Exulte said:

 

 

  When people start ranting about ''censorship'' it inevitably seems to be about them posting increasingly unpopular views, and then acting surprised when they get pushback  and that somehow this equates ''persecution/censorship''.

 

 

 

Always have an acronym on hand to describe those dastardly conspirators after you, as well.

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Posted (edited)

Discord makes posting stuff like this easy for them:

Discord_uPn035Kfi8.jpg

They use it to create their own reality.


Edited by RealDCSpilot

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On 6/3/2021 at 5:52 AM, RealDCSpilot said:

Discord makes posting stuff like this easy for them:

Discord_uPn035Kfi8.jpg

They use it to create their own reality.

 



And posts like this highlights one of the reasons they don't bother visiting these forums.  Putting up with the same inane circular arguments.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/3/2021 at 5:52 AM, RealDCSpilot said:

They use it to create their own reality.

 

No PC do not.

  1. Your quoted post is from 26th Jan 2021 (nice snip making it look like it's from yesterday i.e. topical)
  2. The Gazelle video in question was misleading, it (deliberately ?) cut away from the cockpit just before it's cockpit warnings triggered and the engine cut out.
  3. In the video "flashgod" rolled inverted (engine cutout), auto-rotated while inverted and rolled right way up for a auto-rotative landing.
  4. It's a hard manoeuvre and even in DCS it's easy to overspeed/break the rotor. It took several attempts before other players could reproduced it.
  5. Inverted auto-rotations are not a good example to use when talking about the Gazelle's flight model.

 

On 6/3/2021 at 5:52 AM, RealDCSpilot said:

Discord makes posting stuff like this easy for them:

No it does not, PC seemed to spend quite a lot of time investigating the report and took the time to run THREE twitch streams in February discussing helicopter flight models in other sims, in DCS, what the Gazelle got right, what the Gazelle got wrong and the lessons learned being carried forward to the Kiowa's FM.


Edited by Ramsay
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Posted (edited)

@Ramsay Oh you are mixing up a lot here. Yes, the discord screenshot was taken one day after the 26th of january this year, but no video was involved. In a FM discussion on RAZBAM's discord, it was brought up that the possibility of turning the Gazelle upside-down and hold it there in DCS, comes from the wrong feature of turn-rate with cyclic input. At full deflection the turn rate multiplies the rotating force on the game object (the 3d model which looks like a Gazelle helicopter) so strong that it simply enables you to hold it upside down and keep it floating in air, with collective full down to the floor. At the same time the main rotor shouldn't be able to produce any uplift in the wrong direction because there is no pitch angle for negative thrust direction. But magically it does in DCS, with a simple good FM it should simply fall straight out of the sky, because auto rotation doesn't work upside down nor are any mechanical parts able to withstand the forces in such an attitude.
What's more concerning is that they use discord to tell people that a 5 year old problem is just a "myth".


Edited by RealDCSpilot

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DCS is a game running on a consumer electronics.  Not everything is going to be perfect.  It's a very hard to pull off, edge case scenario that has zero impact on gameplay.  You can do funky unrealistic stuff in all DCS aircraft.  For example if you set wind speed high enough, any aircraft can pretend it's a harrier.  And it's been stated time after time after time that the Gazelle will get revisited once the Kiowa is released and stable.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, PickleMonster said:

For example if you set wind speed high enough, any aircraft can pretend it's a harrier.

It's more realistic than you think. DCS as a sim does the right thing, if someone tunes to much wind in there. The basic principles of uplift:


 


Edited by RealDCSpilot

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4 hours ago, PickleMonster said:

It's a very hard to pull off, edge case scenario that has zero impact on gameplay.

First it's very easy to do and not an edge case scenario, it's the flaw in the FM, using turn rate as a reaction of cyclic input for a helicopter in the first place. I can only hope that this is what they are currently working on, to release their first proper helicopter module instead of another faulty one.

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On 5/20/2021 at 6:53 PM, Ramsay said:

It's almost impossible to balance the "show us what you're working on" crowd vs those in the "it looks so complete" crowd - GIB Kiowa NOW requests, hence (I'm guessing) another reason for the current reduction in forum posts/updates. 

 

Contrary, it is super easy and simple.

 

You come to this forum, you post weekly or at least monthly a report that how you have progressed.

1) what is done/completed.

2) what is underwork.

3) what needs to be done.

 

You clearly and openly tell the major challenges etc.

 

Information is the key. People who think that it is on good shape needs to know that there is work to be done.

Those who want to know what has been done, will get to know what has been done and what needs to be done.

 

Everyone is happy.

 

But if you will hide to discord or any other playroom than official forum, you are generating serious problems for yourself.

Your customers can not find information, and information has no history but telephone effect.

 

And hiding the progress is nothing good. Give a good, honest reasoning and almost all will understand it.

 

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6 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

Contrary, it is super easy and simple.

 

You come to this forum, you post weekly or at least monthly a report that how you have progressed.

1) what is done/completed.

2) what is underwork.

3) what needs to be done.

 

You clearly and openly tell the major challenges etc.

 

Information is the key. People who think that it is on good shape needs to know that there is work to be done.

Those who want to know what has been done, will get to know what has been done and what needs to be done.

 

Everyone is happy.

 

But if you will hide to discord or any other playroom than official forum, you are generating serious problems for yourself.

Your customers can not find information, and information has no history but telephone effect.

 

And hiding the progress is nothing good. Give a good, honest reasoning and almost all will understand it.

 

 I agree with this 100%!

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Again, Discord sux.  Really, anything moderated does so far as comms for online gaming goes.

 

I still prefer either TS or SRS.  I dont need unaccountable people hiding behind pseudo identities telling me how to think.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Fri13 said:

Contrary, it is super easy and simple.

 

You come to this forum, you post weekly or at least monthly a report that how you have progressed.

1) what is done/completed.

2) what is underwork.

3) what needs to be done.

 

You clearly and openly tell the major challenges etc.

 

Information is the key. People who think that it is on good shape needs to know that there is work to be done.

Those who want to know what has been done, will get to know what has been done and what needs to be done.

No one has paid for the Kiowa, PC are not obligated to give a monthly progress report beyond "work is in progress and we hope to deliver before the end of the year".

 

The team is small, it's likely impossible to give details on delays without revealing personal details or throwing a team member or business partner "under the bus" for a failing i.e. developing new code/systems is hard, SME feedback is iterative, ED update, exam deadlines, new job, full time work commitments, personal crisis/emergency/change of circumstance, etc., etc.

 

If I was PC, I'd likely apologise for not replying sooner while repeating their previous statement
 

Quote

• Work is in progress, we hope to deliver before the end of the year.

• We will update the community once we are closer to a release date.

• Everything is subject to change

 

IMHO, that's all that's needed as ...

 

7 hours ago, Fri13 said:

1) what is done/completed.

2) what is underwork.

3) what needs to be done.

 

... has already been covered in past streams and there's no need for PC to self flagellate or show "how the sausage gets made".


Edited by Ramsay
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7 minutes ago, Ramsay said:

No one has paid for the Kiowa, PC are not obligated to give a monthly progress report beyond "work is in progress and we hope to deliver before the end of the year".

Correct, they did not ask any money for it. But they will. And when they do, they want us to buy their Kiowa. But we have a choice - Hind, Apache or Kiowa. PC just has this customer base. 

Yes, they don't need to share what is happening behind closed doors, but pulling through with their 'we don't owe you anything' policy, doesn't win them any sympathy points amongst potential customers.

 

And "before the end of the year", well we heard that before, didn't we?

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Just now, Don Rudi said:

And "before the end of the year", well we heard that before, didn't we?

Yes, they had a choice, release an incomplete EA module that didn't meet their goals or wait until it was a something they could be proud of.

 

IMHO they may have lost money/timeliness in their delay but as a "company" they went up in respect.

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Correct, they did not ask any money for it. But they will. And when they do, they want us to buy their Kiowa. But we have a choice - Hind, Apache or Kiowa. PC just has this customer base. 
Yes, they don't need to share what is happening behind closed doors, but pulling through with their 'we don't owe you anything' policy, doesn't win them any sympathy points amongst potential customers.
 
And "before the end of the year", well we heard that before, didn't we?
You need to have sympathy points for a vendor to buy their products?
For me it comes when it comes and it will be a first day purchase. You guys can sit or fence and wait until reviews are out.
If you don't like the way PC does their thing, just suck it up.
ROTFLMAO

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2 hours ago, Ramsay said:

No one has paid for the Kiowa, PC are not obligated to give a monthly progress report beyond "work is in progress and we hope to deliver before the end of the year".

 

What are you? 

You are ED customer using DCS World.

You are here to buy the products that either ED produce or some third party does.

If you want to maximize your marketing, then you stay in contact with the customers (remember, customer means that you are a person belonging to target audience that are considering to buy something in the future. Customer doesn't mean that you need to pay for someone, a transaction is not required to be a customer).

 

You have just based your argument that no one should never reveal any module for the DCS World until it is ready to be released. That is your case.

 

In the PR you want to have good relationship with your customers, not bad one. You want to minimize the rumors, negativity, incorrect information etc. That means you need to be constantly in touch with the customers so that only correct information is out, that there is no guessing or speculation but you stay in control that everyone would know what is the situation.

 

2 hours ago, Ramsay said:

The team is small, it's likely impossible to give details on delays without revealing personal details or throwing a team member or business partner "under the bus" for a failing i.e. developing new code/systems is hard, SME feedback is iterative, ED update, exam deadlines, new job, full time work commitments, personal crisis/emergency/change of circumstance, etc., etc.

 

You don't need to reveal any exact schedules, not any personal details or anything about partners etc.

You are making lots of excuses that why something is so impossible to be done, while talented people do such things daily and quickly.

If someone can write a couple tweets for twitter, they can do so quickly amazing positive effect to their product. It is about understanding the context and status and knowing how to explain situations without going to minor details like who is writing the code and how many lines were done or anything like that.

 

It is not like someone would need to be reporting a short sport event (couple hours) or longer one that takes days, just by inventing ways to be publishing something few times an hour or more even! 

 

2 hours ago, Ramsay said:

If I was PC, I'd likely apologise for not replying sooner while repeating their previous statement

 

That is totally wrong attitude. You should keep updating the status. If it is just in line of "We are making good progress, we had a few unexpected challenges by feedback by testers but all went fine and we are in happy". 

 

IF you go silent, then you are root to rumor mill. When you are not in control of the information and status, you are causing more trouble than anything else.

Spending a 10 minutes a few times in a month does a lot for boosting the positive attitude and communications. It doesn't take more than that if you know how to. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Ramsay said:

IMHO, that's all that's needed as ...

 

Did you read what I wrote?

 

2 hours ago, Ramsay said:

... has already been covered in past streams and there's no need for PC to self flagellate or show "how the sausage gets made".

 

"We did mention about it 2 years ago.... Now go away and it is done when it is done".

 

And here are people again waiting status report, as nothing is told or informed here, developers spending "hours in a day" just for Discord....

Do you know how much time it really takes to even read the backlog from previous day? Far longer than it takes to write a short update for weekly or monthly announcement....

 

Marketing is about communication, it is one-way direct information delivery to the customers. Even when you do not have anything to sell at the moment, you are directly selling your future product. 

 

If you do not market your product, no one will know about it.

If you have existing customer base, you need to maintain relationship with it to keep them trusting to you and see that their loyalty and investment is valued by the company that their products they either are going to or have already purchased.

 

 

1 hour ago, MAXsenna said:

If you don't like the way PC does their thing, just suck it up.
ROTFLMAO

 

"If you don't like the way government does their thing, just suck it up."

"If you don't like the way wife does their thing, just suck it up."

"If you don't like the way children's does their thing, just suck it up."

"If you don't like the way customers talk about your products, just suck it up."

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"If you don't like the way government does their thing, just suck it up."
"If you don't like the way wife does their thing, just suck it up."
"If you don't like the way children's does their thing, just suck it up."
"If you don't like the way customers talk about your products, just suck it up."
Point beeing that I don't get why you guys feels so entitled and complain so much, about things you haven't the least control over. Is that actually it?
PC and other 3rd parties that don't release news according to your demands and your schedule are getting a lot of heat in threads like this.
I'm a sucker for news myself just like any other guy, and I have sort of stopped following the Discord, but I don't come here in this ecco chamber to complain and feel sorry for myself because I don't get my daily dose.
Don't you get tired? Why do you feel entitled? Serious question!
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Just now, MAXsenna said:

Point beeing that I don't get why you guys feels so entitled and complain so much, about things you haven't the least control over. Is that actually it?

 

Maybe the problem is that you do not "get it"?

It is not about someone being "entitled" or like, but a word of advice how not to cause negativity toward your brand.

Anyone can skip all the advices they ever receive, but is it then their fault when bad things happen that they could have avoided by doing thins differently like others did advice? Yes. 

 

Just now, MAXsenna said:

PC and other 3rd parties that don't release news according to your demands and your schedule are getting a lot of heat in threads like this.

 

This is not about someone demanding their specific schedule to be what every company should do. 

This is discussion that they should do something else than just sit silently for a year only because they do not understand value of active PR.

 

They can pick anything else than either total silent, between once a year and every day. It is up to them, as long they keep their customers informed.

Be present in the official DCS forum where your customers are. Keep them informed and interact with them by correcting false information ASAP etc.

 

Many of these 3rd parties are very small, and all they just don't have people who know how to do PR or what value it is for company business when it is done well.

It is a very common thing that there is no such effort it requires, even when it is so tiny that it takes weekly or monthly. 

 

Just now, MAXsenna said:

I'm a sucker for news myself just like any other guy, and I have sort of stopped following the Discord, but I don't come here in this ecco chamber to complain and feel sorry for myself because I don't get my daily dose.

 

If someone gives you advice how you can do better, it is not a complain.

 

Just now, MAXsenna said:

Don't you get tired? Why do you feel entitled? Serious question!
Cheers! emoji6.png

 

Maybe it is just You who feels entitled because You are tired for lack of information?

Seriously, there is no one feeling entitled....

 

 

 

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Maybe it is just You who feels entitled because You are tired for lack of information?
Seriously, there is no one feeling entitled....
 
 
 
Oh, I get it, don't you worry. I would for sure have come here with info, (unless you F dvs me of)å. But PC have chosen another path, and it really seems to tick you guys off. I can understand one little rant, but this just doesn't stop. That I don't get. Plus for your stammina!

PS: If one has this stamina, you for sure can crawl the backlog of two years of messages on the Discord. I'm sure I saw the reason there. I'm pretty sure you'd get more attention if you post there.

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7 hours ago, Mower said:

Again, Discord sux.  Really, anything moderated does so far as comms for online gaming goes.

 I've been playing games online for twenty years. Unmoderated = teaming cesspool of idiocy and bigotry, without exception. If you consistently have issues with getting moderated, maybe consider not being a douche or something? I traditionally refrained from modding people on my server, but still had to occasionally to enforce order and discourage excessive idiocy.

 

7 hours ago, Mower said:

I still prefer either TS or SRS.

I also prefer TS, generally, though the ''message board and voice comms all in one'' definitely has its utility. Without Discord you need a separate utility or comm conduit for offline stuff.

 

7 hours ago, Mower said:

I dont need unaccountable people hiding behind pseudo identities

  This is the internet, EVERYONE is using pseudo identities. Or do you have the unfortunate distinction of ACTUALLY being named Mower? There is no accountability for anyone generally, unless they cross the local community's guidelines and then, being private property, they decide to kick you out.

 

7 hours ago, Mower said:

telling me how to think.

  Dear me, dissenting opinions? Can't have that. Or perhaps there actually is a flaw in your thinking? Impossibru!

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Say Mars I dont why you spent so much time on your rant but as an FYI I have never been moderated on Discord and I am hardly a Douche online.  Be well.
Really? From a lot of posts here lately you seem to have a hard on for proving otherwise.

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