The quiet is deafening!

[QuiGon]

 

Simon Pearson (ED business dev. director) confirmed the Hind was a Q1 2021 release in a recent interview, based on latest info of course so subject to change. I also hope both come a separate intervals so I have time to learn one before the other comes...

 

I have watched that interview, but I have not heard him saying that. He said the devs will still be busy with the Hind in Q1, but that doesn't mean it won't release into early access before that.

[Qiou87]

I have watched that interview, but I have not head him saying that. He said the devs will still be busy with the Hind in Q1, but that doesn't mean it won't release into early access before that.

 

I might have misunderstood or misremembered. My understanding was, at some point, he said the Mosquito was coming before end of 2020, and Hind in Q1. But you might be correct, I am not 100% sure.

[Feuerfalke]

 

I might have misunderstood or misremembered. My understanding was, at some point, he said the Mosquito was coming before end of 2020, and Hind in Q1. But you might be correct, I am not 100% sure.

 

No you were correct. Heared it too.

I just skipped through the interview:

 

About Minute 43 and thereafter on upcoming modules.

He said the Mossie was still planned for release before Christmas.

The Hind P is then currently planned to 2021 Q1.

 

Wouldn't surprise me, if it is even further away, from the way he put it.

[SmokeFan]

 

 

I'd bet money this will positively be brought up when...

 

 

Just kidding :). They'll release it when it's done, I'll buy it the same day.

 

yawn

[R0NiN]

2 Days ago:

We aim for a 2020 release but, granted, 2020 is almost over and there is a possibility we won't make it. Yet we stand by the fact that we won't be releasing an early access module or a module with many features missing or half done. If it takes longer to get it right, we will take our time to do just that. We want the release to be feature complete and mission ready. That is not to say we won't be adding additional features later on.

 

As to where we are in the development process; We're still working hard to adjust the flight model. All values in all situations have to be correct. This is a very tedious process, mostly crunching numbers. While this is something that can hardly be shown, it makes a world of difference when flying the Kiowa Warrior. The end of this process is in sight though and from that point on we will be working on implementing and adjusting system specific features.

[Qiou87]

Thanks for posting that update here, where was it originally?

 

Great to see this kind of commitment to a full release, DCS has too many early access modules as it stands.

[Scarecrow84]

"...we will be working on implementing and adjusting system specific features"

 

Can someone explain what they meant by this? Features specific to the user's pc system? Like force feedback, VR, etc?

[Ramsay]

"...we will be working on implementing and adjusting system specific features"

 

Can someone explain what they meant by this? Features specific to the user's pc system? Like force feedback, VR, etc?

 

No, PC mean Kiowa Warrior features i.e. MFD menus/logic that need further refinement, the moving map, etc., etc.

 

 

[Scarecrow84]

Ah...sounds like less of a sprint to the finish line than I had hoped. Oh well, so we wait. Thanks Ramsay

[Tiger-II]

That sounds like there is quite a bit left to do.

 

The live streams of it last year made me think 6 months or so to release.

 

Looking forward to it nonetheless!

Edited January 20 by Tiger-II

[Rogue Trooper]

On 11/19/2020 at 2:06 AM, Scarecrow84 said:

Ah...sounds like less of a sprint to the finish line than I had hoped. Oh well, so we wait. Thanks Ramsay

Waiting is what us Chopper guys do.

[Fakum]

Place is dead huh! Bummer still!

[R0NiN]

On 2/24/2021 at 10:15 AM, Fakum said:

Place is dead huh! Bummer still!

They sometimes post information (albeit not much on updates), but are pretty active on their discord.

 

[Paladin1cd]

Must not have been at all ready for the release last year. I’m afraid they are going to wait too long and people are going to buy the Apache and the Hind and not buy the Kiowa, which would really suck because I want them to have a good financial return on their investment so they will continue to develop modules and content.

[Rudel_chw]

20 minutes ago, Paladin1cd said:

Must not have been at all ready for the release last year. I’m afraid they are going to wait too long and people are going to buy the Apache and the Hind and not buy the Kiowa, which would really suck because I want them to have a good financial return on their investment so they will continue to develop modules and content.

I’m looking forward to the Hind, but will anyway purchase all three of them ... hopefully they will not come out all at the same time 

[Paladin1cd]

Yeah, I am sure I’ll do longbow as well as the KW. Not a red guy but many are. Just frustrating with the anticipation. 
 

[Dangerzone]

I understand the concept of not releasing information until they know for sure (as people hate dates been given and then retracted), but at the same time it's frustrating having no information at all, and in some ways I think this could be damaging to Polychop as well... especially now when there are other units being developed where ongoing information is actively been released on their development. (Such as the AH-64 featured in the latest official newsletter along with screenshots and development status). 

 

Given the Apache is now announced as likely being available for preorder first week in May  - I don't think Polychop can afford to continue to remain silent for too much longer. I'm sure PC have their reason for suspending the screenshot of the week (last one in December), and for not providing any ongoing updated information... I just hope it doesn't hurt them in the long run or that things change soon as I'm finding myself reading through the AH64 info with greater anticipation now as there's 'something to read' - 'over there'. 

[sirrah]

7 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

I’m looking forward to the Hind, but will anyway purchase all three of them ... hopefully they will not come out all at the same time 

 

Same here. I really love helo OPS in DCS (especially with the new Syria map)

 

However, I will probably not buy 3 new modules at around the same time..

 

So whichever gets released first, I'll purchase that one and expect to stick with that module for several months before purchasing the next (with the few DCS hours I have available per week, the learning process takes a long time). I'll most probably even wait for the other modules to come on sale..

 

 

So for me, this is like a chopper release race.. I wonder which one will win 

[Rakkis]

7 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I understand the concept of not releasing information until they know for sure (as people hate dates been given and then retracted), but at the same time it's frustrating having no information at all, and in some ways I think this could be damaging to Polychop as well... especially now when there are other units being developed where ongoing information is actively been released on their development. (Such as the AH-64 featured in the latest official newsletter along with screenshots and development status). 

 

Given the Apache is now announced as likely being available for preorder first week in May  - I don't think Polychop can afford to continue to remain silent for too much longer. I'm sure PC have their reason for suspending the screenshot of the week (last one in December), and for not providing any ongoing updated information... I just hope it doesn't hurt them in the long run or that things change soon as I'm finding myself reading through the AH64 info with greater anticipation now as there's 'something to read' - 'over there'. 

This seems the correct take on the situation, I hope PC reads it and takes it to heart.

I also think we're seeing the beginnings of a new DCS Microcosm. ED has stated in the past that they plan on adding Technicals to the AI Assets, RAZBAM is actively working on Super Tucano, officially announced Pucara, and teased OV-10 Bronco, this is all in addition to already in airframes like Gazelle, Huey, and C101 and L-39. All of this points to potential serious COIN operations opening up in the near to mid-term future. It will be a nice contrast to A-10 Tank Busting or F-Series JSOW Delivery from Angels 30.

Edited Monday at 12:27 PM by Rakkis

[Fri13]

7 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I understand the concept of not releasing information until they know for sure (as people hate dates been given and then retracted), but at the same time it's frustrating having no information at all, and in some ways I think this could be damaging to Polychop as well... especially now when there are other units being developed where ongoing information is actively been released on their development. (Such as the AH-64 featured in the latest official newsletter along with screenshots and development status). 

 

One can always talk about the progress in project without giving any schedule information. Like:

"We have been improving this X system to have this kind behavior when not properly used, making it more challenging to use"

or

"We are now completed the control system for the MMS and waiting ED to produce new FLIR system".

Even a bad news are better than nothing:

"We got setback by the new changes to upcoming FLIR system, so we are required to rework some of the capabilities of the sensor". 

 

Just avoid "soon" and such hyped times that doesn't really tell anything. Same way as if not 100% certain, avoid giving exact times. But one can always give "we are aiming to Q3, but Q4 is possibility if some problems occurs". 

 

7 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Given the Apache is now announced as likely being available for preorder first week in May  - I don't think Polychop can afford to continue to remain silent for too much longer. I'm sure PC have their reason for suspending the screenshot of the week (last one in December), and for not providing any ongoing updated information... I just hope it doesn't hurt them in the long run or that things change soon as I'm finding myself reading through the AH64 info with greater anticipation now as there's 'something to read' - 'over there'. 

 

The PR (Public Relations) is critical part of the business where you are to sell something. Hence "Customer is always right" as it is your job to make it so they come later back.

The good marketing as well keeps the customers informed that what is the status and progress, just dropping something as mega announcement "it gets released tomorrow!" is not more effective as informing overall 6-12 months period with small updates that what is happening. 

 

 

[KungFu]

My guess is they are:

• Busting a** finishing/fixing before it goes to Bell or whatever company, for approval
• It's in the approval stage and it being evaluated.
• Busting a** finishing/fixing stuff that Bell or whatever company told them needed attention.
• They all moved to a island somewhree and can't be bothered.

 

[Fri13]

3 minutes ago, KungFu said:

My guess is they are:

• Busting a** finishing/fixing stuff that Bell or whatever company told them needed attention.

 

 

That would be my primary guess. But it all again depends that what a Bell considers as acceptable quality from their standing point? Like if someone comes from a Warthunder to ask something "is this right" they can very well just reply "Yeah, it is Ok" considering the game level. But if someone comes with a 15 million full motion platform with real helicopter canopy being moved in +/-2 meter motions, they totally are checking things at completely different level. 

 

This is the similar problem with DCS, that there are players even with real experience saying "It is OK" but they fly with joystick on the table, looking from the display. 

Put the same people to a simple motion tracked chair with properly extended cyclic, collective and VR, and it will be totally different experience for them to think is something "OK" or not. 

Same person, same code, but totally different experience. Your opinion changes from "Ok" to "Not correct" very easily. It as well requires that the evaluation starting point is "this is for flight training simulation where one can maintain their skills, or learn as close as possible without being in the real one". 

And this is the problem in the Gazelle, that it is great when you fly it on the desktop, with the display, with the normal throttle. But take it to VR, with the all things, and it becomes very obvious on first time to feel that many things is so wrong.

 

Like give something like this for a real pilot with VR (just the chair, extended joystick, throttle/collective and pedals. Strap them to the chair and let them to go flying. You can't really get better without going to much larger systems. 

 

 

Like if those would cost just 3000-5000, we would see far more of them being sold and used. Instead we are now more for couple thousands with simpler systems like this:

https://opensfx.com/

 

So if there is a standard level that quality needs to be low, it will be easy to attain. 

[Dangerzone]

10 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

The good marketing as well keeps the customers informed that what is the status and progress, just dropping something as mega announcement "it gets released tomorrow!" is not more effective as informing overall 6-12 months period with small updates that what is happening. 

 

 

 

Not that I would object to such an announcement as it being released tomorrow.   But I completely agree. If that is the plan, but "tomorrow" is still a few months away - I don't think they can afford to take that approach anymore with this being the "Year of the Choppers".

 

I tend to find companies don't deliberately go out of their way to hurt themselves and stop communicating with customers for no reason. There normally is a reason - I just hope that it's not that PC are stuck between a rock and a hard place that's hurting them. However when there's no more information after months of weekly screenshots and the occasional update that turns into silence, people will start to assume what those reasons are. 

 

I think the general consensus is don't release it until it's ready - and I don't think many have issues with that. It's the silence that is deafening at the moment. 

 

From a consumer's point of view though - I'm not as anxious as I used to be, because as much as I'm hanging out for the Kiowa - I know that there are more alternative options to satisfy my 'new shiny chopper' now this year if this is going to drag on indefinitely. I just know this has been in the making a while and I much prefer to see success stories in business and development rather than the alternative. 

 

I will not likely purchase 3 different choppers though. I figure I'll probably purchase one straight up when available - with the option for a second most likely after a 'try period' if I'm satisfied. It's not so much the $'s, but the time to invest into learning a new set of systems each time.

[Fri13]

8 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

 

Not that I would object to such an announcement as it being released tomorrow.   But I completely agree. If that is the plan, but "tomorrow" is still a few months away - I don't think they can afford to take that approach anymore with this being the "Year of the Choppers".

 

That is hard place for marketing considering how many helicopter module is coming at same time period.  

 

Quote

I tend to find companies don't deliberately go out of their way to hurt themselves and stop communicating with customers for no reason. There normally is a reason - I just hope that it's not that PC are stuck between a rock and a hard place that's hurting them. However when there's no more information after months of weekly screenshots and the occasional update that turns into silence, people will start to assume what those reasons are. 

 

Many things is not worse than rumors, and rumors doesn't mean that it starts by people talking, but that everyone individually and silently speculate by themselves that what is happening. 

When a history shows something as happened in the past, it is easy to come other conclusions than preferred from the marketing point of view. Why in needs to be very active in PR department to do damage control already before product is released. 

 

Too early hyping, marketing etc will hurt. But so does even more just stopping suddenly. This is something that example Razbam has not learned as they try to control all just in discord and then be totally silent here. For years they played that game, so people get the experience that is not positive.

 

Polychop problem is the history of Gazelle flight modeling.

What puts very many in their toes to consider to buy next product from them.

 

And only good thing to do is to show that fears are not there. Something that their few closed beta sessions videos didn't really do, but opposite.

What in my mind likely is a reason that they have gone silent to fix the found problems to polish product.

 

Quote

I think the general consensus is don't release it until it's ready - and I don't think many have issues with that. It's the silence that is deafening at the moment. 

 

I can accept early release with missing features. But it requires few things:

 

1) what ever it comes with, it needs to be done properly. So no AUTO pipper that tilts opposite direction that you should fly, or targeting system that can not fire laser etc.

Learning away wrong habits is bad, having wrong logic in the implementation is bad.

 

2) release new features and functions at steady pace as soon as possible, and make them to come out properly so no one needs to wait next patches to get something fixed.

 

So if a KW would come out first with a HMG and rockets only and 1 month later get APKWS II, and month after that a Hellfires, everything is fine as long all those work correctly from day 1. But if those are broken when released, people get upset. Or if they need to wait 9-12 months to get Hellfires instead 1-6 months.

 

Quote

From a consumer's point of view though - I'm not as anxious as I used to be, because as much as I'm hanging out for the Kiowa - I know that there are more alternative options to satisfy my 'new shiny chopper' now this year if this is going to drag on indefinitely. I just know this has been in the making a while and I much prefer to see success stories in business and development rather than the alternative. 

 

Polychop has good change to come out clean. Produce high standard meeting Kiowa Warrior and then quickly fix the Gazelle flight modeling and targeting system up to expected standard. 

Then they can do almost anything when people can trust again that what comes is quality.

And this is with anyone. The lack of communication and responsibility fix what is broken and was sold is top priority.

 

Quote

I will not likely purchase 3 different choppers though. I figure I'll probably purchase one straight up when available - with the option for a second most likely after a 'try period' if I'm satisfied. It's not so much the $'s, but the time to invest into learning a new set of systems each time.

 

I think I pick Mi-24P at start, but it is likely so close to Mi-8 that there is not much to learn to handle it.

For the KW I hold my reservations but I am a sucker and pick it up anyways, as at least get to experience myself it.

Apache... Well that I think I will leave to other time, maybe get it as birthday present, as I am a sucker.

But concentration to Hind will be likely the thing.

 

I like to take a month for per module. And surprisingly spent three months already on Harrier. But more problems you find, less you want to launch DCS. And harrier has lowered expectations a lot, that negatively impacts whole DCS.

So I decided yesterday take a Miag-21bis on the month.... maybe a big mistake... 

 

So if KW gets out in two weeks™ in this time, I jump to it...

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:25 AM by Fri13

[Fakum]

We just want to know, "Whats Up"?