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Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete?


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Please, don't forget that if we all will recognize that Early Access isn't for us because of things like that, DCS can't be anymore.

IIRC, Nick said that EA is the only way how DCS can survive.

 

So, probably ED should take their responsibility a little more serious.

Yes, ED is not responsible for that what Razbam is doing (although they try to help here also).

But ED is responsible for letting modules out of EA and allowing new modules in EA.

 

 

I think it's less about EA itself, and more about how EA is handled by developers.

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AV/8B+ -prob 3 years away Mig-19S - not going to be soon its not a great plane tbh Mirage 2000-5 - when ED sorts out ground radar yes but again a few years off   AMX - just needs coding and will

That is your choice to make as a consumer, if you have doubts about early access it is always best to wait.

 

Thanks

 

The issue is that now, even if we wait for a module to come out of early access, we know that it is not guaranteed to be complete, as this whole debacle showed us.

 

In my eyes Razbam lost a lot of credibility, and so did ED for allowing this to happen.

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Looking after a forum section is not easy and for some teams it just takes up to much time, resources and energy that could be used on development,

At the same time they have plenty of resources to create 3D-models of various upcoming aircraft, running various social media channels and Discord?

 

 

 

the forum can also be a pretty hostile place so I can understand why communication here has been difficult.

So it is better to not communicate at all? I can't believe that.

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At the same time they have plenty of resources to create 3D-models of various upcoming aircraft, running various social media channels and Discord?

 

 

 

 

So it is better to not communicate at all? I can't believe that.

 

It is a lot to juggle around, as mentioned we are chatting with RAZBAM about improving communication here on the forum.

 

Thanks

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Looking after a forum section is not easy and for some teams it just takes up to much time, resources and energy that could be used on development, the forum can also be a pretty hostile place so I can understand why communication here has been difficult.

 

Nineline and I are in chats with Ron and we will continue to try and help where we can, we have a tester who is looking at the bugs and reporting into our bug tracker currently. It will take time to check any issues.

 

Thank you

 

 

Thank you for answering BIGNEWY.

 

Yes looking after support forums is not easy and resource-intensive, but honestly, that is the cost of doing business.

 

If a developer is unable to meet that requirement and provide adequate customer support in the official Forums, I think then its best for them not to be in business at all, and this should also be one EDs requirements for any 3rd party developer.

 

If you sell any products in the real world, you also need to have someone picking up the phone and answering customers questions or complaints.Even if its annoying and the person handling it could help in production.

 

If you dont, you will run into trouble pretty quickly with customer proctection laws.

 

Regards,

 

Snappy


Edited by Snappy
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Exactley, EA is a good thing. It just should not get abused - which means that work on it has to continue without stop until it is finished.

I couldn't have said it better than that :thumbup:

At the same time they have plenty of resources to create 3D-models of various upcoming aircraft, running various social media channels and Discord

It's all about the hype. Can you believe they claim to make the F15E?

Thank you for answering BIGNEWY.

...but honestly, that is the cost of business....

...If a developer is unable to meet that requirement and provide adequate customer support in the official Forums, I think then its best for them not to be in business at all...

 

You are right. I'll tell you I have a more open mind. I would say to the devs: Are you unable to do a module at the level of a study level sim? okay, you state from the start that the module will have incomplete dynamics and avionics but at least it will be bug free.

ah obviously the price will have to be much lower, and I don't think the devs like this part.

 

The problem is that people keep buying EA to support by adopting the unhealthy "buy to support" habit. These same people get mad at you if you try to complain. For them it is right that we are just chickens to be plucked.

Look the third part down here.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=284141


Edited by Expert

My two cents about the turn this community is taking

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=284141

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Business does call it CUSTOMER CARE.

 

Customer Care

Definition

Customer care is the process of looking after customers to best ensure their satisfaction and delightful interaction with a business and its brand, goods and services.

 

It is closely related to “customer experience” but different than “customer support” or “customer service.”

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This discussion lasts now for three days.

Beside the positive hands on from Nineline, Bignewy and tea_cypher, is there any (official) feedback from Razbam?

It has a strange feeling that the responsible person(s) are still acting like a submarine. Three days should be more then enough to give a statement.

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I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules

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This discussion lasts now for three days.

Beside the positive hands on from Nineline, Bignewy and tea_cypher, is there any (official) feedback from Razbam?

It has a strange feeling that the responsible person(s) are still acting like a submarine. Three days should be more then enough to give a statement.

 

We have said we are working on communication here on the forum, you will need to be patient.

 

For now RAZBAM have been communicating on Discord.

 

Thanks

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So this is how they treat people that contributed to their products now, @ChickenSim

This is utterly disgraceful and distasteful

image0.png

 

BN/9L or whoever decides this at ED, RAZBAM more than deserves to have their F-15E, A-29, Mig-23 (and all their 20 other announced aircraft) module rights taken away so that a competent 3rd Party or ED can make these and we don’t end up with a similar sh*t storm on these projects in a few years like we are now with the Harrier. This is honestly appalling how they treat people that give constructive criticism, and it’s not just Prowler and Zeus, it’s also Hank and OverStratos that lash out at anyone that says anything remotely negative or even just tries to discuss something in their Discord.

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O dear.... I really was looking forward to the Mig-23 but seeying how the communication goes between them and people trying to ask for a professional reply makes me freeze my money transfer towards Razbam.

 

 

Doesnt look good at all. Sith and Big are doing the damage control for people that should stand on their own two feet.

I hope Nick has a good conversation with them about their future within DCS.

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If a developer is unable to meet that requirement and provide adequate customer support in the official Forums, I think then its best for them not to be in business at all, and this should also be one EDs requirements for any 3rd party developer.

 

This!

 

I own the Harrier and I was like "Ok, it is not complete, but it is still nice."

 

Now learning that it is in fact "complete" feels like April fools!

 

I considered the Mudhen as a Day 1 purchase but seeing now how Razbam deals with this (no response in the forums, even on this thread) shows me that Razbam doesnt give a f*** about their products and, even worse, about their customers.

 

So no more Razbam modules for me.

 

And to be honest: This does not only damage the reputation of Razbam, it also damages the reputation of DCS in general. I hope ED is aware of this as well.

Before you call everything a "bug": RTFM & try again! Thank you. :music_whistling:

 

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Out of early Access but is in product sustainment.

 

Bugs are being worked on, and we ( ED ) are helping with that.

 

thanks

 

p.s please do not use masked profanity, it is not needed to make a point. thanks

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So the Harrier will definitely not getting pushed back in Early Access and will still be considered as "released" "feature complete", "done" whatever?

Is this already decided? Last word spoken? Altough many expected systems from the store page are either missing, or mainly missing / wrong?

 

Do I understand this correct?


Edited by viper2097

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So the Harrier will not get back into Early Access and will still be considered as "released" "feature complete", "done" whatever?

Is this already decided? Last word spoken?

 

Do I understand this correct?

 

AV-8B is out of early access and is in product sustainment, Correct, I know you may not like that, but that does not change it.

 

We will look at the concerns of the community, we are working through the bugs.

 

It will take time for us to go through the reported issues and check, you will all have to be patient.

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Hey, look on the bright side, we can now complain about every single little thing wrong with the Harrier as we can no longer be told that "it's early access, what did you expect?"

 

What is even the point of the early access tag at this stage?

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Too Bad actually. But thanks ED for stepping in. 8b649f4dfb1b35514513306da791d797.jpgff3c9a6b83892859fa75484143b27ada.jpg

 

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...But in all seriousness I'd like to extend a hand of thanks to all of what the ED Community manages have accomplished so far with this current issue.

 

Agreed. Thanks to BIGNEWY and NineLine for taking this on, and doing what should be done by RAZBAM. It's not really a pleasant situation, but getting your feedback gives the sense that the Harrier won't be forgotten by ED. It's appreciated.

 

Actually representing your product on the official forum may be time consuming, but other, smaller developers manage it here, and there are too many Razbam posts in the Mig-23, F-15E, Malvinas threads for me to buy in to that explanation too heavily.

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AV-8B is out of early access and is in product sustainment, Correct, I know you may not like that, but that does not change it.

 

I just hope you all in ED understand that's not good PR-vise.

Do not expect fairness.

The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone.

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I just hope you all in ED understand that's not good PR-vise.

 

It’s out of early access. Good.

The product DOES NOT meet the official product description, that is what I based my buying decision on.

 

So ED and Razbam are officially stating that they HAVE NOT MET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PRODUCT they sold.

I want my money back. I could care less about product sustainment or whatever they decide to name it.

The product is not complete and doesn’t match the description.

Is it a scam?

If not, refund.

 

I am serious.

 

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, digital content should be of a satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described.


Edited by bkthunder

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