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Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete?


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AV/8B+ -prob 3 years away Mig-19S - not going to be soon its not a great plane tbh Mirage 2000-5 - when ED sorts out ground radar yes but again a few years off   AMX - just needs coding and will

Just wow.....

 

Didn't realise that Razbam has so many modules under table to be put on it....

 

AV/8B+ -prob 3 years away

Mig-19S - not going to be soon its not a great plane tbh

Mirage 2000-5 - when ED sorts out ground radar yes but again a few years off

 

AMX - just needs coding and will be in the next 2 years

Bronco- not in the pipline, was a tease and will be years

Lightning - best plane - im doing the textures for this one, likely next year

Canberra - is AI

F-100 - just a tease, its NOT coming for many years !

Mirage 3,Super Etendard s- still not sure when but at first they are ai !

Strike Eagle in modelling stage and will be the next module

Mig-23, with carlos and a year off

Bo-105, this is not our module we will look at coding it when its modelled

Ia-58- AI

Sea Harrier, ai for Falklands then will be a module

A-29 for the Ecuadorian air force and yes its coming to DCS.

 

 

basically you are looking at these coming in stages before you all get your knickers in a twist !

F15sE, Tucano and mig 23 re the next planes coming from razbam.

 

Then and only after the above are finished it will be :EE Lightning, Sea Harrier and the BO-105.

 

The rest are way down the line. but hey i dont work for razbam and the above is my view not the official view or razbam


Edited by =DECOY=
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I own every module in DCS and proud to do so. it means newer and better modules can be made in the future. No dev is perfect, hell ED has its issues and heatblur still havent given us the F14a or the carrier they promised. but you know what its OK .. we paid for a EA product.

 

 

Excuse-me sir, but you can't compare. F-14 is a top notch piece of software and F-14A is a free plus, not a core of module.

 

Oh, and you are right about the issues with others developers, I bought the Supercarrier and can't use it. And have no answers from ED about the ridiculous performance problem.

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AV/8B+ -prob 3 years away

Mig-19S - not going to be soon its not a great plane tbh

Mirage 2000-5 - when ED sorts out ground radar yes but again a few years off

 

AMX - just needs coding and will be in the next 2 years

Bronco- not in the pipline, was a tease and will be years

Lightning - best plane - im doing the textures for this one, likely next year

Canberra - is AI

F-100 - just a tease, its NOT coming for many years !

Mirage 3,Super Etendard s- still not sure when but at first they are ai !

Strike Eagle in modelling stage and will be the next module

Mig-23, with carlos and a year off

Bo-105, this is not our module we will look at coding it when its modelled

Ia-58- AI

Sea Harrier, ai for Falklands then will be a module

A-29 for the Ecuadorian air force and yes its coming to DCS.

 

 

basically you are looking at these coming in stages before you all get your knickers in a twist !

F15sE, Tucano and mig 23 re the next planes coming from razbam.

 

Then and only after the above are finished it will be :EE Lightning, Sea Harrier and the BO-105.

 

The rest are way down the line.

 

To be honest, I don't really worry myself about the other modules they tease or even officially announce. What worries me is the Harrier module and the fact that has been out for so long and so many bugs, incomplete systems, and outright missing systems haven't been dealt with even when RAZBAM actually acknowledges them on either this forum, facebook, or their Discord echo-chamber.

 

I get that you got a bad deal. I didn't envy your position as a CM at all. Still, don't try to deflect this all on us when we are here because of the quality of RAZBAM's work and their business practices.

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To be honest, I don't really worry myself about the other modules they tease or even officially announce. What worries me is the Harrier module and the fact that has been out for so long and so many bugs, incomplete systems, and outright missing systems haven't been dealt with even when RAZBAM actually acknowledges them on either this forum, facebook, or their Discord echo-chamber.

 

I get that you got a bad deal. I didn't envy your position as a CM at all. Still, don't try to deflect this all on us when we are here because of the quality of RAZBAM's work and their business practices.

 

HOW is me telling you what to expect next deflecting ?



 

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Decoy, please look the difference in approach in communication between the developer and the community in this topic, and see that toxicity ceases to exist when working together.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=282566

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HOW is me telling you what to expect next deflecting ?

 

 

Perhaps that was a aggressive word choice and for that, I apologize. I should also have made it clear that I am replying not just to your "what to expect next" list but also the post you made before it which I will quote below.

 

Razbam did, i made it and guess what it got met with nothing but hostility on a weekly basis. no mater what was posted on it, someone will always complain.

 

Same as everything else Razbam related. it doesn't matter what they do they get nothing but grief and everything posted gets twisted one way or another.

 

Does Razbam modules still have bugs - YES but guess what so does every other module in DCS. they recently employed a new coder to help relieve the bugs and yet no one cared about that great news.

 

 

I own every module in DCS and proud to do so. it means newer and better modules can be made in the future. No dev is perfect, hell ED has its issues and heatblur still havent given us the F14a or the carrier they promised. but you know what its OK .. we paid for a EA product.

 

This is why i stepped down as the Razbam CM, this forum has turned toxic over the last 6 months and its got to STOP !

 

Again. I am not trying to put you on tribunal here for issues that are out of your direct control. The larger issue here is not just communication from RAZBAM to us on the ED forum but also the module itself, it's overall quality based on time developed, and what its final form is to be (and how that final form compares to what other third parties and ED strive for).

 

While I am not really blaming you for any of this, I do think that the reason things have gotten where they are is because RAZBAM doesn't really make it clear what they consider a complete, full fidelity module. This happened with the Mirage (before the AdA stepped in) as well. When RAZBAM first released the Mirage, it was not only incomplete but also incorrect. It took a long, long time for RAZBAM to even acknowledge that they didn't have all the information they really should have had before starting the project. Maybe this has worked for them thus far for sims like FSX but the community here will really dig into this stuff and will get vocal when something isn't right.

 

The Harrier has had a very rough life so far. Maybe RAZBAM largely considers it feature complete but it does not currently match other DCS modules in terms of basic levels of detail and overall systems fidelity. Some of that can be explained away due to classification/secrecy issues but some of it just can't.

 

So. I apologize for picking my words wrong but you can see how I might come to the conclusion (based second quoted post) that you spoke a lot about what the community is doing wrong without really tackling the root cause of that (sometimes too extreme) upset.

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Razbam did, i made it and guess what it got met with nothing but hostility on a weekly basis. no mater what was posted on it, someone will always complain.

 

Same as everything else Razbam related. it doesn't matter what they do they get nothing but grief and everything posted gets twisted one way or another.

 

Does Razbam modules still have bugs - YES but guess what so does every other module in DCS. they recently employed a new coder to help relieve the bugs and yet no one cared about that great news.

 

I own every module in DCS and proud to do so. it means newer and better modules can be made in the future. No dev is perfect, hell ED has its issues and heatblur still havent given us the F14a or the carrier they promised. but you know what its OK .. we paid for a EA product.

 

This is why i stepped down as the Razbam CM, this forum has turned toxic over the last 6 months and its got to STOP !

 

Decoy, please don't forget the primary reason you were hired in the first place. Something to do with Prowler having an outburst and threatening legal action against redditors?

 

Please do not try to tell the community that the "new coder" Razbam hired was for any other reason than to pull the Harrier kicking and screaming out of EA. I actually worked with one in a side channel for a few months in 2019, because you guys told him to talk to me, to parse through bugs and inaccurate systems modeling (GPWS, Navigation, etc.) that needed to get fixed for certain tutorials to be able to get released.

 

Not any of the long list of outstanding bugs from 2017. No, those weren't high priority enough to even put on the list.

 

Just the ones that were needed to be able to finally get Harrier "done", and the only time Zeus wanted to hear about anything else was when enough people went unheard on the forums for so long about issues like the ASL or CCIP-to-AUTO modes that it suddenly warranted correction (and if I recall correctly, people were banned for complaining about those, too).

 

I still remember when Zeus said in May 2018 that he wanted the Harrier out of early access by June, and was happy if only half the training missions would be done by then. Does anyone remember how many features were missing in June 2018? That was the standard they wanted to ship with.

 

Seems to be a pattern here, and you can't lay it solely at the feet of the behavior of the people on this forum in the past 6 months...


Edited by ChickenSim
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AV/8B+ -prob 3 years away

Mig-19S - not going to be soon its not a great plane tbh

Mirage 2000-5 - when ED sorts out ground radar yes but again a few years off

[/Quote]

 

Must say I am surprised about AV-8B+ being ~3 years away, considering how little it is different to N/A by the NATOPS.... And that ED does the hard work with the radar in Hornet....

 

Similar thing for MiG-19S compared to P....

 

And again with Mirage 2000-5, considering that how much it is based to existing module.

 

I would have thought that those modules would be easier and faster to get done, considering sales with them, instead doing a completely different modules with all new FM, systems, research and so on...

 

Strike Eagle in modelling stage and will be the next module

Mig-23, with carlos and a year off [/Quote]

 

Personally I am sad that F-15E gets before MiG-23MLA, but this is the info people want here, Razbam to communicate and tell about plans and their schedules, progress and setbacks.

 

Sea Harrier, ai for Falklands then will be a module

A-29 for the Ecuadorian air force and yes its coming to DCS. [/Quote]

 

I can understand to get AI with map soon, but why to delay a military contract? Or do you mean that it just comes far much later to DCS World side, without schedule?

 

basically you are looking at these coming in stages before you all get your knickers in a twist !

[/Quote]

 

See, right that there is "toxic manner". Why it was required to be added right there? Seriously, how about little more humble and positive manners without sarcasm?

 

I think ED moderators has been doing great job cleaning forums from negativity in last year and half, reminding people (instead banning and all), talking to hard questions and discussing problems and all. It is their job to deal with the customers and it is very challenging one.

But no one here is doing such a job that some other people do in their lives, that literally puts people to hospital, to have breakdowns and require at least daily visits with psychiatrist and medication. All because they need to go through user reports....

Not even people in emergency call centers go through what such people I talk about go through.

 

If we put in the context that what is a hard work and all, being moderator or even just normal user in any forum is super easy job to many other ones. So please, let's not go about how "toxic community" here is and blame that for everything, as we have changes to be more civilized and friendly by each and all of us.

 

And it all starts from communication and that tries to be respectful before anything else.

 

We have here a fairly easy community really, there are clear rules and it is easy to get hot headed and angry and all... But everyone needs to learn that it is easier to everyone when no one goes to personal. No sarcasm, no jokes, nothing that against person itself.

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This happened with the Mirage (before the AdA stepped in) as well. When RAZBAM first released the Mirage, it was not only incomplete but also incorrect. It took a long, long time for RAZBAM to even acknowledge that they didn't have all the information they really should have had before starting the project. Maybe this has worked for them thus far for sims like FSX but the community here will really dig into this stuff and will get vocal when something isn't right.

 

That's right.

 

Here are a lot of military aviation enthusiasts, history hobbyists and even ex-service members and all.... Many takes it seriously that DCS World would try to be the most accurate simulator for the purpose it is made.

 

So there are people who knows things, or they will learn things. And if something is different or clearly wrong or seems wrong, they like to at least discuss about it and get it fixed.

 

And problems raises quickly when someone responsible for the fixing problem just denies everything or reasons to changes, as it would need to be done with evidence then.

It is same thing as in any relationship, problems should be needed be discussed as early as possible, when they start to exist. So the couple can work together and communicate before it gets worse and outburst happens in some manner that was not wanted by either one.

Denying something is wrong is the problem.

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Decoy, please don't forget the primary reason you were hired in the first place. Something to do with Prowler having an outburst and threatening legal action against redditors?

 

Please do not try to tell the community that the "new coder" Razbam hired was for any other reason than to pull the Harrier kicking and screaming out of EA. I actually worked with one in a side channel for a few months in 2019, because you guys told him to talk to me, to parse through bugs and inaccurate systems modeling (GPWS, Navigation, etc.) that needed to get fixed for certain tutorials to be able to get released.

 

Not any of the long list of outstanding bugs from 2017. No, those weren't high priority enough to even put on the list.

 

Just the ones that were needed to be able to finally get Harrier "done", and the only time Zeus wanted to hear about anything else was when enough people went unheard on the forums for so long about issues like the ASL or CCIP-to-AUTO modes that it suddenly warranted correction (and if I recall correctly, people were banned for complaining about those, too).

 

I still remember when Zeus said in May 2018 that he wanted the Harrier out of early access by June, and was happy if only half the training missions would be done by then. Does anyone remember how many features were missing in June 2018? That was the standard they wanted to ship with.

 

Seems to be a pattern here, and you can't lay it solely at the feet of the behavior of the people on this forum in the past 6 months...

 

Wow, that is absolutely unbelieveable.

And absolutely eye opening.

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I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules

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Decoy, please don't forget the primary reason you were hired in the first place. Something to do with Prowler having an outburst and threatening legal action against redditors?

 

Please do not try to tell the community that the "new coder" Razbam hired was for any other reason than to pull the Harrier kicking and screaming out of EA. I actually worked with one in a side channel for a few months in 2019, because you guys told him to talk to me, to parse through bugs and inaccurate systems modeling (GPWS, Navigation, etc.) that needed to get fixed for certain tutorials to be able to get released.

 

Not any of the long list of outstanding bugs from 2017. No, those weren't high priority enough to even put on the list.

 

Just the ones that were needed to be able to finally get Harrier "done", and the only time Zeus wanted to hear about anything else was when enough people went unheard on the forums for so long about issues like the ASL or CCIP-to-AUTO modes that it suddenly warranted correction (and if I recall correctly, people were banned for complaining about those, too).

 

I still remember when Zeus said in May 2018 that he wanted the Harrier out of early access by June, and was happy if only half the training missions would be done by then. Does anyone remember how many features were missing in June 2018? That was the standard they wanted to ship with.

 

Seems to be a pattern here, and you can't lay it solely at the feet of the behavior of the people on this forum in the past 6 months...

 

 

I'm afraid your little history excursion won't change his mind. But thanks for these insights! It fits

perfectly into the picture.

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you're not actually interested in airplanes at all are you

you just need a parent figure to keep giving you attention

 

any of you who needs someone else to dripfeed you some feeling of self worth is sick in the head and should not be encouraged

 

grow up and dont bring your own personal issues into product improvement

 

or okay if you need an emotional service, go hire someone who actually offers that sort of service

dont turn this airplane sim into your personal psych therapy

 

 

I feel hurt and afraid.

Flying the Harrier

IYAOYAS



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Just wow.....

 

Didn't realise that Razbam has so many modules under table to be put on it....

 

Yeah, don't forget the four helos, the Bo-105, a heavy US helicopter and two medium european helicopters. They have a lot on their plate.

 

Source : Air Combat Sim Podcast #9 transcription

 

Edit : Also, is the -5 mentioned by Decoy a typo ?

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Yeah, don't forget the four helos, the Bo-105, a heavy US helicopter and two medium european helicopters. They have a lot on their plate.

 

Source : Air Combat Sim Podcast #9 transcription

 

Edit : Also, is the -5 mentioned by Decoy a typo ?

 

 

The ONLY helicopter being worked on for a while at razbam is the BO 105.

 

And yes the -5 is not going to happen for a while due to two factors. 1 being the virus and security restrictions. And the other being the radar not being ready.

 

My advice would be forget about the -5 for a few years



 

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Easier to adopt a "It'll get here when it does"-mindset anyway. There's a reason as to why I'm the Arch-bishop of the Church of Two Weeks™.

 

I waited 15 years for the Viper in DCS. I can wait for a LONG time for it to be as done as it can. Same with every other module in production, regardless of hypefactor.

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Fjordmonkey

Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

 

I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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In a different simulation environment ilke the civil one, a module like this would have liked: It won't be a study level like pmdg and such, but It would have had its fans. But here people are suited at a-10c, ka-50, Hornet, Tomcat. Even a "simple" module like a Sabre is deeply simulated with fine details. Here, with the exception of fc3, there's no place for slightly less or a bit less of quality. Razbam, polychop and such should understand that and conform, otherwise I doubt their life will be easy in this place.

 

the -5 is not going to happen for a while due to the radar not being ready.

 

What about the strike eagle? A radar Is there too or not?


Edited by nessuno0505
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Razbam did, i made it and guess what it got met with nothing but hostility on a weekly basis. no mater what was posted on it, someone will always complain.

Probably because there was no progress. I posted a long list of missing key binds and they classified as "Low Pri" (understandable), "New Feature Request"(infuriating), and had status of "Working on it," for two years.

Same as everything else Razbam related. it doesn't matter what they do they get nothing but grief and everything posted gets twisted one way or another.

I believe you would be talking about posts showing off new projects. Maybe how the pilot body is coming, while people have been clambering for fixes to old bug reports, or acknowledgement of bug reports at all.

Does Razbam modules still have bugs

I believe that point was made several pages back.

This is why i stepped down as the Razbam CM, this forum has turned toxic over the last 6 months and its got to STOP !

I was glad to hear you stepped down. I thought you had gotten a raw deal.

You were in an impossible position. Being the middle man between an annoyed public and a company that was ignoring them.

 

I wish you luck with whatever your doing.

Flying the Harrier

IYAOYAS



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AV/8B+ -prob 3 years away

Mig-19S - not going to be soon its not a great plane tbh

Mirage 2000-5 - when ED sorts out ground radar yes but again a few years off

 

AMX - just needs coding and will be in the next 2 years

Bronco- not in the pipline, was a tease and will be years

Lightning - best plane - im doing the textures for this one, likely next year

Canberra - is AI

F-100 - just a tease, its NOT coming for many years !

Mirage 3,Super Etendard s- still not sure when but at first they are ai !

Strike Eagle in modelling stage and will be the next module

Mig-23, with carlos and a year off

Bo-105, this is not our module we will look at coding it when its modelled

Ia-58- AI

Sea Harrier, ai for Falklands then will be a module

A-29 for the Ecuadorian air force and yes its coming to DCS.

 

 

basically you are looking at these coming in stages before you all get your knickers in a twist !

F15sE, Tucano and mig 23 re the next planes coming from razbam.

 

Then and only after the above are finished it will be :EE Lightning, Sea Harrier and the BO-105.

 

The rest are way down the line.

 

 

So you're going to release the Lightning in one year, after the SE, Tucano and Flogger. Four modules in one year, and seven in two years, assuming the AMX comes out after the FRS1 and Bo-105. Are you really, really sure (to use your words) that you estimated the duration of those stages correctly? So far you have released roughly one EA module every two years.

 

 

I really, really want you guys to succeed because I would love to fly most aircraft on that list. I'm legitimately excited by those projects and wish you the best, but if you set yourself utterly impossible goals, there is no way you will ever deliver.


Edited by TLTeo
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AV/8B+ -prob 3 years away

Mig-19S - not going to be soon its not a great plane tbh

Mirage 2000-5 - when ED sorts out ground radar yes but again a few years off

 

AMX - just needs coding and will be in the next 2 years

Bronco- not in the pipline, was a tease and will be years

Lightning - best plane - im doing the textures for this one, likely next year

Canberra - is AI

F-100 - just a tease, its NOT coming for many years !

Mirage 3,Super Etendard s- still not sure when but at first they are ai !

Strike Eagle in modelling stage and will be the next module

Mig-23, with carlos and a year off

Bo-105, this is not our module we will look at coding it when its modelled

Ia-58- AI

Sea Harrier, ai for Falklands then will be a module

A-29 for the Ecuadorian air force and yes its coming to DCS.

 

 

basically you are looking at these coming in stages before you all get your knickers in a twist !

F15sE, Tucano and mig 23 re the next planes coming from razbam.

 

Then and only after the above are finished it will be :EE Lightning, Sea Harrier and the BO-105.

 

The rest are way down the line.

 

 

 

 

Absolute madness lol

 

 

 

F15sE, Tucano are 5 year projects before they ever get 100% completed If at all ....... That's right kiddies keep throwing your $$$$ into projects that have unrealistic timelines to be completed, YOU KNOW THIS GOING IN but you still pay and then cry about it later.

 

 

 

When I look at this RAZBAM need to be more responsible with silly teasers of what's coming down the line and focus and finishing modules.

 

 

 

And where's ED in all this...???? Staying silent as usual just raking in the %%% $$$$ and laughing all the way to the bank your are expense LOL :megalol:

 

 

Stop paying for Alpha/Beta modules from unreliable 3rd parties that have a history of selling you nothing but unrealistic timelines for completed modules.

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Stop paying for Alpha/Beta modules from unreliable 3rd parties that have a history of selling you nothing but unrealistic timelines for completed modules. [/b]

 

 

Others spend their leftover money on going out with the boys and gain nothing but bad memories, regrets and worse hangovers and the absolute s**ts due to a bad kebab. I spend my leftover money on modules I feel is interesting enough for me to spend money on, and hope that they one day become as bug free as it is possible to get them.

 

That's why the Viper was a first-day purchase for me, even though I knew full well it would be VERY rough around the edges. That's also why I bought the Harrier, which is the aircraft that has given me quite a lot of fun, excitement and outright hysterical giggles, despite/because of the bugs it has.

 

If one can't foot the bill for a module that turns out to be trash or not the right kind of module, maybe people should re-evaluate their purchase-habits. Just a thought.

Regards

Fjordmonkey

Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

 

I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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Others spend their leftover money on going out with the boys and gain nothing but bad memories, regrets and worse hangovers and the absolute s**ts due to a bad kebab. I spend my leftover money on modules I feel is interesting enough for me to spend money on, and hope that they one day become as bug free as it is possible to get them.

 

That's why the Viper was a first-day purchase for me, even though I knew full well it would be VERY rough around the edges. That's also why I bought the Harrier, which is the aircraft that has given me quite a lot of fun, excitement and outright hysterical giggles, despite/because of the bugs it has.

 

If one can't foot the bill for a module that turns out to be trash or not the right kind of module, maybe people should re-evaluate their purchase-habits. Just a thought.

 

 

Indeed, but you only need to look at the last 50 pages and see many people complaining, not just this thread but many many others all the way to ED's modules. My point is they know this going in paying for an uncompleted module, demand the next module while the 1st one they paid for is unfinished, developers see the $$$$ potential on cash today for something they don't have to deliver on and its another endless cycle of these threads, you paid for something that's unfinished and you pre-paid for a mod that's not released lol ..... how do players expect anything good to come that from scenario? This is my whole point if you don't like it stop pre-paying and in directly pressuring them to release early mods


Edited by F900EX
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That's why the Viper was a first-day purchase for me, even though I knew full well it would be VERY rough around the edges. That's also why I bought the Harrier, which is the aircraft that has given me quite a lot of fun, excitement and outright hysterical giggles, despite/because of the bugs it has.

 

I agree on this. Harrier is for me one of the most interesting aircrafts and maybe the best looking cockpit in high res VR. It still has many bugs remaining, but I am hopeful after today seeing long list of fixes in release pipeline.

 

I also agree with some other posters that this project does not meet the criteria of professional software development. There may be many reasons, for example under resourcing.

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Indeed, but you only need to look at the last 50 pages and see many people complaining, not just this thread but many many others all the way to ED's modules. My point is they know this going in paying for an uncompleted module, demand the next module while the 1st one they paid for is unfinished, developers see the $$$$ potential on cash today for something they don't have to deliver on and its another endless cycle of these threads, you paid for somethings that's unfinished and you pre-paid for a mod that's not released lol

 

Of course I know I'm paying for an unfinished module. So did everyone else that paid for any module in EA. Or at least they SHOULD know that they did, and they SHOULD also know just what that entails: You're buying an unfinished module on the promise that it will, some day, be in as finished state as possible within the living and ever developing framework that is DCS. Just like you do when you preorder any other piece of software or hardware. The risk you take is that it'll NEVER be finished or you have another VEAO-case.

 

If you find that such a risk is too much for you, stop spending money on EA-modules. But also remember that if you DO just that, you also have no business complaining about the cost of it.

 

I bought both the Harrier and the Viper as EA-modules. I did so because I'm a cheap bastard even though I have enough disposable income to buy them multiple times at full price if I wanted to. I also did it to support the developers of a product I found interesting and worth the risk of EA'ing the product they push. Hell, I'll even buy another RB-module while in EA if said module is interesting enough to me, regardless of how many pages of whining and griping goes on here, despite much of it being very warranted.

 

There's an old saying: If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. In DCS-terms that means if you can't foot the bill or take the risk of buying an EA module, stop buying EA modules.

Regards

Fjordmonkey

Clustermunitions is just another way of saying that you don't like someone.

 

I used to like people, then people ruined that for me.

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