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Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete?


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Some of us recognized a few days ago that the Harrier is missing the "Early Access" tag in the shop and in the game.

 

As the Harrier is still full of bugs, missing functionality, wrong implementations and does not even have a full manual, this step would not be understandable. Especially as it seems to be done "silent and without any announcement".

 

So is the actual state of the Harrier now considered as "finished" by Razbam and is this also approved by ED?


Edited by viper2097

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AV/8B+ -prob 3 years away Mig-19S - not going to be soon its not a great plane tbh Mirage 2000-5 - when ED sorts out ground radar yes but again a few years off   AMX - just needs coding and will

Out of early access does not equate "finished" or "complete" in DCS these days. This was discussed at length when the Fw-190A8 left early access back in spring.

 

Out of early access??:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=267282

That's indeed the issue, I don't know the fw190 module but I do know that in no way does the harrier qualify as being out of early access, it says on the product page that the harrier is a "study level" simulation, if someone is seeing it's out of early access and seeing what's written on the product page, anybody seeing this without knowing too much will suppose that the harrier is in a fully complete state, unlike what it is at the moment

Full fidelity su27/mig29 ?

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Can just have a look at ED's own Hornet roadmap, regarding out of EA. Plenty of items still coming after Early Access.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4300736&postcount=185

- Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.

- Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.

 

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Surely, but surely a proper Manual is an absolute bare minimum requirement before leaving EA...even if there are future systems to be implemented/polished

Crazy they could even consider calling it out of EA (even if not feature complete) without a manual...its meant to be a study sim...what are you supposed to study?

I truly hope this isn't something being run up the flagpole to see if they can get the F/A18C out of EA without a manual...


Edited by jasonbirder

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Although I find it a very arguable statement, one could say that moving out of EA does not automatically mean a module is feature complete. However, as someone who's used to work in large (non-software-development) projects, I'd expect that moving out of EA would be at least a very serious milestone (heck, it's a proper reason for a small party with the entire team! :yay: :beer:)

 

 

So, I was a bit surprised when I discovered that the AV-8B moved out of EA, without at least broadly mentioning it in the weekly newsletter (or have I been blind and missed that?)

The fact that there has been dead-silence from Razbam on this forum for the past couple weeks, doesn't create a lot of trust..

 

 

(when it comes to what "Early Access" means and how complete software should be upon official release, I guess the software development sector gave its own meaning to that. I know our clients wouldn't be happy if we delivered a detail engineering package and said: well, it's not complete yet, but you'll get the rest later at some point, maybe. But ok, lets not move this thread in that discussion direction :P)

System specs:

 

 

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Surely, but surely a proper Manual is an absolute bare minimum requirement before leaving EA...even if there are future systems to be implemented/polished

Crazy they could even consider calling it out of EA (even if not feature complete) without a manual...its meant to be a study sim...what are you supposed to study?

I truly hope this isn't something being run up the flagpole to see if they can get the F/A18C out of EA without a manual...

 

What? F/A-18C has a manual and is being updated as new features are added, I don't see why you have to constantly talk the work being done down, its getting a bit tiresome now.

 

The topic here is the AV-8B please stick to it.

 

thanks

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Hi all

 

the AV-8B feature list is complete

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/av8bna/

 

product sustainment continues however.

 

Thank you

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Just to be clear...

 

In case the Harrier is really considered by ED and/or Razbm to be finished, or feautre complete, or in any way close to its description of being highly realistic and accurate, let me just take the official description and mark what is really included in the product we paid for, according to the many unresolved bug reports so far:

 

Key Features of DCS: AV-8B N/A VTOL by RAZBAM include:

 

Advanced Flight Model that provides realistic performance and flight characteristics of a Vertical Takeoff and Landing (VTOL) aircraft -

Several peculiar flight charachteristics are not modelled

 

 

Highly detailed external 3D model and textures with animations

The external 3D model has clipping errors and modeling inaccuracies in several places (e.g. check the position and shape of the air scoops just behind the canopy)

 

Highly detailed and accurate 6 DOF cockpit with high resolution textures, specular and bump mapping, and mouse-interactive controls

Cockpit lighting makes it impossible to use this NIGHT ATTACK AIRCRAFT at night

 

Highly realistic modelling of the aircraft systems including electrical, fuel, hydraulics, lighting, engine and navigation that includes:

This i a big one, considering we can't even complete the start-up checklist in a realistic way

 

Digital Engine Control System (DECS)

Automatic Fuel System

Air Refueling System

Electrical Power System

External Lighting

Internal Lighting

Hydraulic Power Supply System

Flight Control System (FCS)

Head-Up Display (HUD)special mention for the Bugged FPM that "falls off to the side of the HUD when in a turn or when there is wind

Up-front Control (UFC) missing functionality

Option Display Unit (ODU)

Multipurpose Color Displays (MPCD) missing pages, bugged HUD view etc

VREST Computer (for jet-borne flight) incomplete, not calculating noz rotation angles for example

Air Data Computer (ADC)

Environmental Control System (ECS)

On-Board Oxygen Generating System (OBOGS)

 

Realistic weapons, sensor, and defensive systems include:

Several unresolved bugs reported for various wapons and aiming systems.

Air-to-Air and Air-to-Ground GAU-12 Equalizer 25 mm (0.984 in) 5-barreled Rotary cannon pod

6 under-wing pylon stations holding up to 9,200 lb (4,200 kg) of payload which include:

AIM-9 Sidewinder or similar-sized infrared-guided missiles

AGM-65 Maverick Air-to-Surface missiles

Mark 80 series of unguided bombs (including 3 kg [6.6 lb] and 14 kg [31 lb] practice bombs)

Paveway series of Laser-Guided Bombs (LGBs)

Joint Direct Attack Munitions (GBU-38, GBU-32, and GBU-54)

Mark 20 Cluster Bomb Units (CBUs)

AN/AAQ-28V LITENING targeting pod

ALQ-164 ECM Pod

Several skins

Detailed Operational Manual and Pocket guide Missing

Instant Action, Single, and Training Missions

Detailed representation of the USS Tarawa (LHA-1), lead ship of her class. Bugged and incomplete, missing glideslope signal system and other lights related to the landing system

 

Check the community bug tracker for open/unresolved/unacknowledged bugs

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As mentioned out of early access, but continued product sustainment.

 

Bugs if verified will be addressed.

 

thanks

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Bignewy, you said its out of Early Access because its feature complete.

bkthunder made a short summary (not far mentioned everything) where things are missing according to the description in the shop. Or can you show me the "Detailed Operation Manual"?

And sorry, we do not see any bugs adressed by Razbam. Some not since years.

 

Can you please explain how this fits.to what you said?


Edited by viper2097

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I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules

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Correct out of early access as the feature list is considered complete.

 

Outstanding bugs can be reviewed, we will take a look at issues and assist RAZBAM with this.

 

Thanks

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Of the feature list on the store page, GBU54 and GBU32 are still missing.

 

I will check with RAZBAM Swift.

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...Can you please explain how this fits.to what you said?

 

It must be nice to spend 70 bucks and find yourself an unusable "product" in a hypothetical dynamic campaign. Could it be just a marketing strategy to sell to the unwary?

Take a look here for the EA part https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=284141

My two cents about the turn this community is taking

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=284141

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It must be nice to spend 70 bucks and find yourself an unusable "product" in a hypothetical dynamic campaign. Could it be just a marketing strategy to sell to the unwary?

Take a look here for the EA part https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=284141

 

The AV-8B is not unusable so don't go exaggerating, there is no need for it.

 

As mentioned already bugs will be reviewed.

 

thank you

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Bignewy just to be clear my posts got deleted - one for controversy for some unknown reason (couldn't be further from the truth ). It was purely asking why this thread had disappeared even and referenced the community bug tracker, lack of progress and in it i also mentioned about the GBU32 and 54 and how it can be considered systems complete given where we are with the module.

 

There is a growing resentment when you speak to experienced harrier players online (aka know the Natops), on this forum and in the wider community to Razbam's poor communication. This is not trying to raise controversy its purely a fact. -I have noticed this has gathered some pace in the last few months with the Harrier module. I was purely asking for this to be raised within ED and for a review, given that we all care passionately about this module.

 

Was it ED or Razbam that deleted the posts - just curious where the censorship is now coming from and why? If its not something you want to post please just pm me,but silencing objective customer feedback, that cannot be a good thing surely.

 

PS i just wish they would take a leaf out of ED's book as the communication from you and Nineline has been excellent in the last year.


Edited by Hawkeye_UK

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:mad:

For me, thats the final nail in the coffin.

 

....no more Razbam from now on

 

no MiG-19

no F-15E

no MiG-23

no A-29 Super Tucano

no South Atlantic Map

no OV-10 Bronco

no Sea Harrier FRS.1

no Mirage-III

or any other wet dream from Razbam. They lost a customer. In DCS and FS2020 or any other Game.

 

 

Move along.....nothing to see here

 

 

 

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Bignewy just to be clear my posts got deleted - one for controversy for some unknown reason (couldn't be further from the truth ). It was purely asking why this thread had disappeared even and referenced the community bug tracker, lack of progress and in it i also mentioned about the GBU32 and 54 and how it can be considered systems complete given where we are with the module.

 

There is a growing resentment when you speak to experienced harrier players online (aka know the Natops), on this forum and in the wider community to Razbam's poor communication. This is not trying to raise controversy its purely a fact. -I have noticed this has gathered some pace in the last few months with the Harrier module. I was purely asking for this to be raised within ED and for a review, given that we all care passionately about this module.

 

Was it ED or Razbam that deleted the posts - just curious where the censorship is now coming from and why? If its not something you want to post please just pm me,but silencing objective customer feedback, that cannot be a good thing surely.

 

PS i just wish they would take a leaf out of ED's book as the communication from you and Nineline has been excellent in the last year.

 

Hi Hawkeye,

 

We wont usually discuss moderation, as per the forum rules ( 1.3 Administrative actions against forum members are not subject to public discussion )

 

I have tidied up and reopened the thread and merge a deleted post so we can discuss the thread topic,

 

Also we have offered to help RAZBAM on their forum section as they do not have a community manager at the moment, hopefully we can answer some of your posts, and look at the bugs. Of course we do also have a lot of forum to look after, but we will do our best, time permitting.

 

That is all I will say for now, if you have more questions about moderation please PM nineline and myself. Please keep the feedback respectful and remember our rules here.

 

Thank you

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One of my favourite sims was Janes F-15E,so I was really excited to see it was in development,but that excitement is quickly waning now, so much so that I'm pretty sure I won't be buying it.

 

Ha great game, i think i have the manual still somewhere! I even remember buying a 16MB, yes 16MB 3dfx Voodoo Banshee graphics card and being amazed at the level of graphics.

 

If i could have looked into the future and what we now have with VR i probably wouldn't have believed it !


Edited by Hawkeye_UK

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

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The thing is, I already decided not to ever buy any Razbam product on ANY platform long ago, given the Harrier.

However I will not give up on the fact i paid 70 bucks to support them, 3 years ago, and I feel honestly cheated.

 

Yes, cheated, that's the right word.

The prodct DOES NOT MATCH the description.

The product DOES NOT MATCH the DCS level of fidelity

 

After 3 years.

ED has a nice EULA but let's be intellectually honest here: this screams for a refund.

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What? F/A-18C has a manual and is being updated as new features are added, I don't see why you have to constantly talk the work being done down, its getting a bit tiresome now.

 

The topic here is the AV-8B please stick to it.

 

thanks

 

 

Whilst you are in one sense, correct - the F/A18C Early Access Guide is in a far more up to date state than the last time I browsed it (so apologies)

 

 

It does concern me a little...that your take away from my "2 Full price Products - No Manuals" comment was...how dare you critisise...ONE of those modules you paid good money for HAS got a manual...

Rather than...what can we do to address your concern as a customer about the lack of documentation for a product you paid $60 for nearly 2 years ago...

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