Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete?

[OPEC]

The wheels of the bus go round and round... I get the feeling that this is going nowhere.

 

And before @viper2097 comes telling me again that I'm not using the harrier... I do use the other modules and I wanted to purchase a lot of their upcoming modules so it is my business and problem as well.

 

But honestly: ED is in touch, and the only thing missing is a statement from razbam. And while i would like to see that as well, I go with nineline: threatening legal actions will not improve anything in terms of communication.

 

So... maybe we should all relax a little bit, have a little faith in ED and let them do their work. We will See where this is going...

 

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[Waxer]

Okay. Been following this thread for a while now, occasionally saying something myself. I feel that it is going round in circles now, so I will check out and leave you all to it.

 

In summary for me: I am very interested in the AV-8B module. During COVID lockdown I've been spent time in it, for the first time since buying it. Superficially it is good, but the more you go through the tutorials the more you discover quirks where things are not working. At first you think "What am I doing wrong" only to discover that actually you are running into a systems issue or bug that is not fixed. Is it unusable? No. But it is sometimes very frustrating. And at the moment it does NOT meet my expectations.

 

Rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater, complain and give up on the module, I would rather seen Razbam work to bring the module up to the good quality standard set by other DCS modules. There is a lot of good work already done on the AV-8B, so it seems stupid to devalue all that good work by leaving things unfinished. I want it fixed. Eagle Dynamics getting involved to help Razbam achieve this sounds very constructive to me.

 

I think moving the AV-8B out of Early Access unfortunately sent a very wrong message to paying customers like me. I also thing that Razbam plowing on with one or two dozen other projects also sets an impression of a lack of focus. I get that the artwork done on various pipeline projects does not take the resource of the coders required to work on the Harrier, but regardless it sends the wrong message.

 

I am interested in the Lightning and Sea Harrier that Razbam has teased. If any other developed were working on these I would likely buy them during Early Access. However given that these are Razbam projects I will not be buying either until the AV-8B reaches a level of maturity significantly advanced from where it is now.

 

There are a number of very well argued and constructive comments and criticism on this thread. (Some of it was kinda angry, but I understand why. Hey - people are free to express themselves how they want. But my experience is that throwing toys around should be done only on exceptional situations if you want good outcomes). It should really give Razbam the information they need to polish the Night Attack Harrier to the level it needs to be. I wish them luck. If they ignore the community feedback I can't see this will end well for them. And it damages Eagle Dynamics reputation to have a developer underperforming so badly. I'd rather see fewer, very high quality modules on DCS rather than numerous quality compromised modules.

 

Checking out. I am off to fly my Viggen.

[NineLine]

Yes, lets also remember its the weekend, and again, I asked them to make sure it was a thoughtful response. Thanks.

[=DECOY=]

Here's the thing ! As you have seen a few users here always troll Razbam with hate and seem to attack everything they do.

 

Bkthunder and viper for example !

 

Then they expect razbam to interact with them , that's Not going to happen.

 

You don't spit in someone's face and expect to be invited for a coffee. They chose to stick to discord and Facebook due to this

 

Just saying !

Edited September 13, 2020 by =DECOY=

[johnv2pt0]

Here's the thing ! As you have seen a few users here always troll Razbam with hate and seem to attack everything they do.

 

Bkthunder and viper for example !

 

Then they expect razbam to interact with them , that's Not going to happen.

 

You don't spit in someone's face and expect to be invited for a coffee. They chose to stick to discord and Facebook due to this

 

Just saying !

 

[=DECOY=]

 

I'm no longer paid by razbam I'm freelance for a few devs now and can say what I like bud.

 

All im saying is this community has a select few who always stoke the fire with fuel. You only have to look at their profile pages to see the 100's of posts targeting razbam with nothing but aggression

Edited September 13, 2020 by =DECOY=

[johnv2pt0]

And your response just now, is an example of who razbam hires, what they think of the community and their concerns, and how they handle themselves with their public faces regardless if you're working for them or not anymore.

 

If you're upset because of a funny, yet apt meme, think how irritated customers that have been ignored, derided, and even blamed for wanting the product they paid for 3 years ago must feel.

[=DECOY=]

And your response just now, is an example of who razbam hires, what they think of the community and their concerns, and how they handle themselves with their public faces regardless if you're working for them or not anymore.

 

If you're upset because of a funny, yet apt meme, think how irritated customers that have been ignored, derided, and even blamed for wanting the product they paid for 3 years ago must feel.

 

 

Grow up!

 

As stated im free to have my own views just like you. If you don't like it then don't read it.

 

I'm nothing to do with razbam anymore

[bkthunder]

Here's the thing ! As you have seen a few users here always troll Razbam with hate and seem to attack everything they do.

 

Bkthunder and viper for example !

 

Then they expect razbam to interact with them , that's Not going to happen.

 

You don't spit in someone's face and expect to be invited for a coffee. They chose to stick to discord and Facebook due to this

 

Just saying !

 

I have done a community bug tracker to help YOU, dear sir, keep track of all the bugs that I and other have reported and that you buried under the carpet.

 

 

As for expecting something, I AM THE ONE THAT PAID.

I don't owe you anything, it's the other way aroud and once you start to understand that, maybe, just maybe, it may dawn on you and your team that this is a business and not a charity, and we are paying customers.

I expect what I paid for. That's it.

 

Honestly you better keep these kind of posts to yourself because that's a clear demonstartion of why things with the Harrier have gone the way they have.

[bkthunder]

P.S.

 

I'm nothing to do with razbam anymore

 

Decoy is a member of RAZBAM.

[Fjordmonkey]

I have done a community bug tracker to hepl YOU, dear sir, keep track of all the bugs that I and other have reported and that you buried under the carpet.

 

 

As for expecting something, I AM THE ONE THAT PAID.

I don't owe you anything, it's the other way aroud and once you start to understand that, maybe, just maybe, it may dawn on you and your team that this is a business and not a charity, and we are paying customers.

 

Honestly you better keep these kind of posts to yourself because that's a clear demonstartion of why things with the Harrier have gone the way they have.

 

That we're paying customers doesn't immediately mean that we can be as muppety as we want, which is something this thread excels at.

 

Yes, people are angry, and angry people lash out. Well enough, but when said lashing out morphs into lashing out for the sake of lashing out, we get absolutely nowhere. Again something this thread is an excellent demonstration of.

 

How about we all sit back, wait for ED and Razbam to sort this mess out and for RB to actually make a damn statement about it? Or are we just going to sit in our respective mudpool and fling mud at eachother like children? And yes, I know I've done my part in flinging said mud.

[OPEC]

I have done a community bug tracker to help YOU, dear sir, keep track of all the bugs that I and other have reported and that you buried under the carpet.

 

 

As for expecting something, I AM THE ONE THAT PAID.

I don't owe you anything, it's the other way aroud and once you start to understand that, maybe, just maybe, it may dawn on you and your team that this is a business and not a charity, and we are paying customers.

I expect what I paid for. That's it.

 

Honestly you better keep these kind of posts to yourself because that's a clear demonstartion of why things with the Harrier have gone the way they have.

Its not. He is free to say whatever he wants. To take his opinion as private person and take that as a sign of whats going wrong is not right in any way.

 

As I said - this thread is going nowhere and should be closed because its simply too emotional. @NineLine give razbam a deadline regarding a statement and close this down. Its getting off track here.

 

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[=DECOY=]

P.S.

 

I don't work for razbam ! I'm freelance but of course you are the resident expert as always lol

[bkthunder]

 

How about we all sit back, wait for ED and Razbam to sort this mess out and for RB to actually make a damn statement about it? Or are we just going to sit in our respective mudpool and fling mud at eachother like children? And yes, I know I've done my part in flinging said mud.

 

I'm not the one who just called a customer a troll, so that advice should be directed to someone else here :music_whistling:

[TLTeo]

How about we all sit back, wait for ED and Razbam to sort this mess out and for RB to actually make a damn statement about it?

 

 

Normally I would agree with this, but it's been almost a week since this whole thing blew up. A statement should have come already and given RB's consistent lack of communication, I don't expect one to come at this point.

[Fjordmonkey]

I'm not the one who just called a customer a troll, so that advice should be directed to someone else here :music_whistling:

 

Ah yes, the old "He started it!"-arguement. Ever heard about taking the high road and not resorting to childishness?

 

Normally I would agree with this, but it's been almost a week since this whole thing blew up. A statement should have come already and given RB's consistent lack of communication, I don't expect one to come at this point.

 

Fair enough and I agree with you, but I'm pretty sure that most of this thread proves Razbams point about why they don't come to the boards.

[bkthunder]

I think this whole thread proves the community point about why such a thread exists in the first place.

 

The fact it spins out of control is because neither Razbam nor ED have given an official statement.

[bkthunder]

Ah yes, the old "He started it!"-arguement. Ever heard about taking the high road and not resorting to childishness?

 

As I said, I have not called anyone a troll, so check your facts.

[Fjordmonkey]

As I said, I have not called anyone a troll, so check your facts.

 

Yet you continue to perpetuate the whole "he started it"-schpiel.

 

It doesn't matter if ED or Razbam made a statement at this point. Anything and everything either of them said would only continue to fuel this thread, because people cannot or will not accept what's being said. We're in a self-sustaining loop where people have long stopped thinking logically, basically, and until that dies down there basically cannot be progress.

[Fisherman82]

I'm no longer paid by razbam I'm freelance and can say what I like bud.

 

 

 

All im saying is this community has a select few who always stoke the fire with fuel. You only have to look at their profile pages to see the 100's of posts targeting razbam with nothing but aggression

 

That does not give a company the right to simply disregard all other paying customers complaints, bugreports etc at the official forum for the product.

A proffesional company is expected to be able to deal with this. 100 of agggresive posts is just a indication that you must improve the way you do buissness if you dont want to lose it completly in the long run.

 

I have only purchased the Harrier from Razbam and I dont think I have shown aggression. But I dont get what you think I could have shown instead? The Harrier is not quite there yet for Razbam expecting things like gratitude, appreciation and so on from their customers.

 

Its interesting you are still here on this forum when all other Razbams have left it.

Allthough you are not a member of Razbam anymore you are still here trying to silence this uprising from the paying customers in the same way as this was your sole task when you actually where the official CM of Razbam. This thread is about the Harrier, in what way is your posts about planned Razbam modules on topic? Its just a diversion to shift the discussion away from the matter so hopefully the discussion disolves and stops so everything can be buissness as usual for Razbam.

 

Skickat från min D5503 via Tapatalk

[Marsvinet]

Okay. Been following this thread for a while now, occasionally saying something myself. I feel that it is going round in circles now, so I will check out and leave you all to it.

 

In summary for me: I am very interested in the AV-8B module. During COVID lockdown I've been spent time in it, for the first time since buying it. Superficially it is good, but the more you go through the tutorials the more you discover quirks where things are not working. At first you think "What am I doing wrong" only to discover that actually you are running into a systems issue or bug that is not fixed. Is it unusable? No. But it is sometimes very frustrating. And at the moment it does NOT meet my expectations.

 

Rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater, complain and give up on the module, I would rather seen Razbam work to bring the module up to the good quality standard set by other DCS modules. There is a lot of good work already done on the AV-8B, so it seems stupid to devalue all that good work by leaving things unfinished. I want it fixed. Eagle Dynamics getting involved to help Razbam achieve this sounds very constructive to me.

 

I think moving the AV-8B out of Early Access unfortunately sent a very wrong message to paying customers like me. I also thing that Razbam plowing on with one or two dozen other projects also sets an impression of a lack of focus. I get that the artwork done on various pipeline projects does not take the resource of the coders required to work on the Harrier, but regardless it sends the wrong message.

 

I am interested in the Lightning and Sea Harrier that Razbam has teased. If any other developed were working on these I would likely buy them during Early Access. However given that these are Razbam projects I will not be buying either until the AV-8B reaches a level of maturity significantly advanced from where it is now.

 

There are a number of very well argued and constructive comments and criticism on this thread. (Some of it was kinda angry, but I understand why. Hey - people are free to express themselves how they want. But my experience is that throwing toys around should be done only on exceptional situations if you want good outcomes). It should really give Razbam the information they need to polish the Night Attack Harrier to the level it needs to be. I wish them luck. If they ignore the community feedback I can't see this will end well for them. And it damages Eagle Dynamics reputation to have a developer underperforming so badly. I'd rather see fewer, very high quality modules on DCS rather than numerous quality compromised modules.

 

Checking out. I am off to fly my Viggen.

 

 

As if you took the words out of my mouth. Nicely written.

 

People really need to chill. Yes, your anger started this, that is about the one thing it has managed to actually do for the Harrier. Let ED sort them out. Anger just breeds more anger and it does not help anymore.

 

Here's the thing ! As you have seen a few users here always troll Razbam with hate and seem to attack everything they do.

 

Bkthunder and viper for example !

 

Then they expect razbam to interact with them , that's Not going to happen.

 

You don't spit in someone's face and expect to be invited for a coffee. They chose to stick to discord and Facebook due to this

 

Just saying !

 

 

DECOY, you were really given a shit hand starting as CM here, but you definitely did not do much to make it better and you then stepped down because it just kept growing worse and worse. You call them trolls, and on some level I do agree with you. But Razbam themselves is what created part of how they are acting. 3 years of being mostly ignored by the ones you were trying to help. I really don't think you'd be happy with that either, right? If what ChickenSim is saying is true, much of that anger is sadly justified.

 

I would recommend that you should just observe right now, because even if you were not connected to Razbam, just what you are saying is like throwing napalm on a dumpsterfire. You're making the anger worse, so let NineLine and Bignewy continue their incredible work. You are even starting to piss me off, that takes some shit to do.

[=DECOY=]

As if you took the words out of my mouth. Nicely written.

 

People really need to chill. Yes, your anger started this, that is about the one thing it has managed to actually do for the Harrier. Let ED sort them out. Anger just breeds more anger and it does not help anymore.

 

 

 

 

DECOY, you were really given a shit hand starting as CM here, but you definitely did not do much to make it better and you then stepped down because it just kept growing worse and worse. You call them trolls, and on some level I do agree with you. But Razbam themselves is what created part of how they are acting. 3 years of being mostly ignored by the ones you were trying to help. I really don't think you'd be happy with that either, right? If what ChickenSim is saying is true, much of that anger is sadly justified.

 

I would recommend that you should just observe right now, because even if you were not connected to Razbam, just what you are saying is like throwing napalm on a dumpsterfire. You're making the anger worse, so let NineLine and Bignewy continue their incredible work. You are even starting to piss me off, that takes some shit to do.

 

 

Firstly don't tell me what to do. Like you I have a right to be here bud

 

Secondly I left the role as I work a 60 hour week for my main job while looking after my kids and I couldn't do the role justice which is why I left so don't for one second state otherwise as you have no idea what your taking about !

 

Also. You may want to edit your post and remove the swear words ;)

Edited September 13, 2020 by =DECOY=

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all,

 

we are getting to the point in this thread where people are just being nasty to each other. Some repeating the same over and over.

 

I am afraid some of you have taken things way to far, even after I asked for people to treat each other with respect. There is plenty of reasonable constructive feedback in the thread that is getting overshadowed by unconstructive feedback.

 

So you know where we stand currently.

 

AV-8B is out of early access,

Product sustainment will continue

Concerns have been highlighted to the RAZBAM team and those points have been taken onboard by them.

We (ED) fully support RAZBAM and will continue to assist and report user reports to RAZBAM

 

 

At this stage the hostility on these forums is not helping, what is needed is some time for everyone to reflect,

take the Sunday off and we will reopen or make a new thread on Monday.

 

Please remember our rules here, including

 

1.4 Posts/threads that undermine the actions of the forum staff, such as opening threads that are redundant, disruptive or deal with topics that have been previously locked, will result in administrative actions against the user.

 

As mentioned this thread will be reopened on Monday or a new thread will be made by us.

 

feel free to PM me if you have questions

 

Thank you

Edited September 13, 2020 by BIGNEWY

[BIGNEWY]

Please see new thread.

 

Please remember the forum rules before posting,

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=285904