Razbam/ED please clarify - Is the Harrier out of EA and consequently complete?

[nessuno0505]

There's nothing wrong in buying EA modules. I never did it, but it's ok to do so if you want. I usually wait for a module to be out of EA before buying, but I won't buy av-8b or m2000. According to the list posted and the time frame scheduled, it's obvious we will never have a study level module from RB, but only "fc3-style half-baked sikrit systems 35% done after 3 years" and then considered finished. Now we know RB intentions, their plan is clearly stated. Do you want to spend your money in this EA? It's your choice. I'll never mess my dcs experience with that stuff. Maybe I'll buy the viper, even if unfunished, since I know it will be completed one day, after a proper amount of time.

 

I'm a bit sad since I believed there was a quality standard in dcs, instead it's like x-p1ane: you have to check carefully what you are buying since there are excellent modules besides arcade-like stuff all graphics and poor systems. Fortunately my dcs keeps the standard for now, but I have to be careful where to put my money.

Edited September 12, 2020 by nessuno0505

[statrekmike]

Indeed, but you only need to look at the last 50 pages and see many people complaining, not just this thread but many many others all the way to ED's modules. My point is they know this going in paying for an uncompleted module, demand the next module while the 1st one they paid for is unfinished, developers see the $$$$ potential on cash today for something they don't have to deliver on and its another endless cycle of these threads, you paid for something that's unfinished and you pre-paid for a mod that's not released lol ..... how do players expect anything good to come that from scenario? This is my whole point if you don't like it stop pre-paying and in directly pressuring them to release early mods

 

 

There are some that keep coming into this thread with this same line of thinking and while it isn't outright correct, it is also not the whole picture.

 

I have been playing DCS for going on a decade. I have bought just about every module with only a few specific exceptions. I know that when I buy a module, I am more than likely getting a early access product with the promise that it will eventually be a full, complete release. Obviously sometimes things go very bad (VEAO and the Hawk module is a good example) but for the most part, ED, Heatblur, and Deka have been good about (and this is key here) demonstrating their willingness to complete the modules they make via steady updates, (at least) decent enough communication, and generally positive, non-adversarial, usually professional behavior when faced with the occasional controversy. When I bought the F-16 module, I knew I was getting a extremely unfinished aircraft but I didn't freak out about it because I also know that ED is quite likely to finish it. I know that they went into the project with the information and SME support they need to get it up to standard. The same can be said of the F-14 and Viggen by Heatblur. Heck, even Deka has come in with not only a pretty solid module but also a strong amount of early access support that has meaningfully pushed the aircraft towards a complete state.

 

The point I am making here is that for the most part, while it can be sometimes frustrating to wait, ED, Heatblur, and Deka have managed to release things into early access that one can be reasonably confident will get finished. They all seem to be shooting for a similar level of fidelity and sometimes they even go above and beyond what is in DCS's core (which is another very important detail in all this). It might take a while but buying in to early access with them isn't a obvious risk.

 

RAZBAM is a different case. When they were gearing up to release the Mirage, they marketed it as if it were a full, DCS level simulation of a Mirage 2000C-RDI model but when it came out, it started to become pretty clear that RAZBAM's lack of support from Dassault, the French Air forces, and even SME's just wasn't where it needed to be. They filled in a lot of gaps themselves and we got something pretty similar to the "frankenviper" in the other combat sim. Heck, they even used performance charts from said other sim to build the Mirage module.)

 

We didn't really get a full idea of how far off it was until the AdA actually stepped in and helped them out much, much later. Had RAZBAM not been approached, the Mirage would not have met the standards set by its own store-page.

 

With the Harrier release, we saw a lot of this play out yet again. Its initial release had a lot of bugs but that was forgivable. The big issue was really that it didn't get as much post-release support as other modules from other developers regularly got. It would get a patch here and there but things that other DCS developers would handle without snark and complaint were often somewhat drama filled with RAZBAM. They (like VEAO before them) would often retreat behind "DCS updates will just break everything anyway so why bother fixing this or that". People would point out bugs or even incomplete or absent functionality and RAZBAM would give us a a line like "ED needs to do that" or something to that effect.

 

When they released the MiG-19, even that involved some drama as the RAZBAM developers were pretty quick to complain about the standards that ED had set for something beyond a early access release. They seriously thought that the MiG-19 was a full release when it first came out. Let that roll around in one's mind for a while. It was horribly buggy and had some serious, obvious flight model problems but as far as RAZBAM was concerned, they felt it was feature complete and got offended publicly when told that was not the case.

 

Alongside the MiG-19 itself, its release also heralded some community upset about the state of the Harrier. Keep in mind, this was last year. Pretty much the same upset we are seeing now is only a repeat of what has already happened last year. During the MiG-19 release, I can't be absolutely sure and won't assert that it is true but I strongly suspect that ED talked to them about the Harrier's state because they seemed to come back at the Harrier with some degree of renewed vigor and didn't seem so bitter about having to do so (At least publicly). Again. this is my theory so take it for what it is.

 

Sadly, here we are again. Only now we have some statements on the Discord from RAZBAM that indicates that they genuinely consider the harrier "feature complete" even though it not only technically isn't but is (more importantly) quite incomplete with what is there. I am not so much talking about issues that could fall into secrecy territory. I am talking about just things like how the knobs and switches function and basic stuff like that.

 

Looking at their discord, we are again starting to get a picture of what happened and it is looking like the Mirage all over again. It is my guess that they took on the module without having a plan to get all the information they would need. They did the best they could with what they could get their hands on but it clearly wasn't quite enough. Sadly, I don't see a scenario where the USMC or Boeing will come in and help them out like the AdA eventually did with the Mirage. What we have is probably about as much as they could do with the information they were willing and/or able to go out and get.

 

So here we are. The cycle repeats itself and while folks who have (sometimes very patiently) been waiting for a complete module are still waiting for some pretty significant and long acknowledged issues to get fixed, we are also yet again being told to shut up because early access is what it is. Well, the Harrier isn't in early access anymore and we are still waiting for early access problems to get solved. What else should we do here? What other choice do we have but to speak up a bit (hopefully politely) and hope that ED puts them to task?

 

I have said this before but I think the real thing at stake here is not the Harrier module but every other complex module that RAZBAM makes in the future. Knowing what we know from the release of the Mirage and the Harrier, isn't it about time we get a clear, unmistakable idea of what RAZBAM considers a complete module? Isn't it time they tell us before releasing a module what they were able to get in terms of information and how that will translate into a complete module? Perhaps it is time for ED to set firmer, stricter rules when it comes to third party project approval?

 

This probably comes off in text as more hostile than it is in my head as I type it. Please note that I am not saying that RAZBAM is "scamming" us or that they are intentionally and maliciously misleading us. I think they genuinely have a standard they shoot for internally but perhaps that standard isn't what ED and other third parties have led us to expect. This current debacle is going to keep repeating (and probably for future RAZBAM modules as well) until they either make it clear that they are working towards a lower level of fidelity or they find some way to reach the standard set by their peers. I for one hope that this is the last time we need to (as long-time Harrier owners) ask why we have not seen significant, consistent updates.

[Terrorban]

AV/8B+ -prob 3 years away

Mig-19S - not going to be soon its not a great plane tbh

Mirage 2000-5 - when ED sorts out ground radar yes but again a few years off

 

AMX - just needs coding and will be in the next 2 years

Bronco- not in the pipline, was a tease and will be years

Lightning - best plane - im doing the textures for this one, likely next year

Canberra - is AI

F-100 - just a tease, its NOT coming for many years !

Mirage 3,Super Etendard s- still not sure when but at first they are ai !

Strike Eagle in modelling stage and will be the next module

Mig-23, with carlos and a year off

Bo-105, this is not our module we will look at coding it when its modelled

Ia-58- AI

Sea Harrier, ai for Falklands then will be a module

A-29 for the Ecuadorian air force and yes its coming to DCS.

 

 

basically you are looking at these coming in stages before you all get your knickers in a twist !

F15sE, Tucano and mig 23 re the next planes coming from razbam.

 

Then and only after the above are finished it will be :EE Lightning, Sea Harrier and the BO-105.

 

The rest are way down the line.

I do appreciate you showing us your future plan of projects. Can you please discuss more about your future plans of current AV-8B?

 

What are you major plans towards this module's completion? Will we begin seeing extensive list of bug fixes on patch notes from now on until it is in a more stable state?

 

There will always be things breaking but try to work with the community a little more. Calling your customers toxic (Even if that is true) is not professional. Please speak here in a different tone than what you are used to with your mates within Razbam.

[Baco]

Decoy I would suggest you guys stop teasing so much then... Its not funny...

 

So If you rely on SOUTH ATLANTIC (I belive the map is called, right?), the Mig 23 and the AMX to go by, I suggest you start treating your southamerican customers a bit better...

[ruxtmp]

There are some that keep coming into this thread with this same line of thinking and while it isn't outright correct, it is also not the whole picture.

 

I have been playing DCS for going on a decade. I have bought just about every module with only a few specific exceptions. I know that when I buy a module, I am more than likely getting a early access product with the promise that it will eventually be a full, complete release. Obviously sometimes things go very bad (VEAO and the Hawk module is a good example) but for the most part, ED, Heatblur, and Deka have been good about (and this is key here) demonstrating their willingness to complete the modules they make via steady updates, (at least) decent enough communication, and generally positive, non-adversarial, usually professional behavior when faced with the occasional controversy. When I bought the F-16 module, I knew I was getting a extremely unfinished aircraft but I didn't freak out about it because I also know that ED is quite likely to finish it. I know that they went into the project with the information and SME support they need to get it up to standard. The same can be said of the F-14 and Viggen by Heatblur. Heck, even Deka has come in with not only a pretty solid module but also a strong amount of early access support that has meaningfully pushed the aircraft towards a complete state.

 

The point I am making here is that for the most part, while it can be sometimes frustrating to wait, ED, Heatblur, and Deka have managed to release things into early access that one can be reasonably confident will get finished. They all seem to be shooting for a similar level of fidelity and sometimes they even go above and beyond what is in DCS's core (which is another very important detail in all this). It might take a while but buying in to early access with them isn't a obvious risk.

 

RAZBAM is a different case. When they were gearing up to release the Mirage, they marketed it as if it were a full, DCS level simulation of a Mirage 2000C-RDI model but when it came out, it started to become pretty clear that RAZBAM's lack of support from Dassault, the French Air forces, and even SME's just wasn't where it needed to be. They filled in a lot of gaps themselves and we got something pretty similar to the "frankenviper" in the other combat sim. Heck, they even used performance charts from said other sim to build the Mirage module.)

 

We didn't really get a full idea of how far off it was until the AdA actually stepped in and helped them out much, much later. Had RAZBAM not been approached, the Mirage would not have met the standards set by its own store-page.

 

With the Harrier release, we saw a lot of this play out yet again. Its initial release had a lot of bugs but that was forgivable. The big issue was really that it didn't get as much post-release support as other modules from other developers regularly got. It would get a patch here and there but things that other DCS developers would handle without snark and complaint were often somewhat drama filled with RAZBAM. They (like VEAO before them) would often retreat behind "DCS updates will just break everything anyway so why bother fixing this or that". People would point out bugs or even incomplete or absent functionality and RAZBAM would give us a a line like "ED needs to do that" or something to that effect.

 

When they released the MiG-19, even that involved some drama as the RAZBAM developers were pretty quick to complain about the standards that ED had set for something beyond a early access release. They seriously thought that the MiG-19 was a full release when it first came out. Let that roll around in one's mind for a while. It was horribly buggy and had some serious, obvious flight model problems but as far as RAZBAM was concerned, they felt it was feature complete and got offended publicly when told that was not the case.

 

Alongside the MiG-19 itself, its release also heralded some community upset about the state of the Harrier. Keep in mind, this was last year. Pretty much the same upset we are seeing now is only a repeat of what has already happened last year. During the MiG-19 release, I can't be absolutely sure and won't assert that it is true but I strongly suspect that ED talked to them about the Harrier's state because they seemed to come back at the Harrier with some degree of renewed vigor and didn't seem so bitter about having to do so (At least publicly). Again. this is my theory so take it for what it is.

 

Sadly, here we are again. Only now we have some statements on the Discord from RAZBAM that indicates that they genuinely consider the harrier "feature complete" even though it not only technically isn't but is (more importantly) quite incomplete with what is there. I am not so much talking about issues that could fall into secrecy territory. I am talking about just things like how the knobs and switches function and basic stuff like that.

 

Looking at their discord, we are again starting to get a picture of what happened and it is looking like the Mirage all over again. It is my guess that they took on the module without having a plan to get all the information they would need. They did the best they could with what they could get their hands on but it clearly wasn't quite enough. Sadly, I don't see a scenario where the USMC or Boeing will come in and help them out like the AdA eventually did with the Mirage. What we have is probably about as much as they could do with the information they were willing and/or able to go out and get.

 

So here we are. The cycle repeats itself and while folks who have (sometimes very patiently) been waiting for a complete module are still waiting for some pretty significant and long acknowledged issues to get fixed, we are also yet again being told to shut up because early access is what it is. Well, the Harrier isn't in early access anymore and we are still waiting for early access problems to get solved. What else should we do here? What other choice do we have but to speak up a bit (hopefully politely) and hope that ED puts them to task?

 

I have said this before but I think the real thing at stake here is not the Harrier module but every other complex module that RAZBAM makes in the future. Knowing what we know from the release of the Mirage and the Harrier, isn't it about time we get a clear, unmistakable idea of what RAZBAM considers a complete module? Isn't it time they tell us before releasing a module what they were able to get in terms of information and how that will translate into a complete module? Perhaps it is time for ED to set firmer, stricter rules when it comes to third party project approval?

 

This probably comes off in text as more hostile than it is in my head as I type it. Please note that I am not saying that RAZBAM is "scamming" us or that they are intentionally and maliciously misleading us. I think they genuinely have a standard they shoot for internally but perhaps that standard isn't what ED and other third parties have led us to expect. This current debacle is going to keep repeating (and probably for future RAZBAM modules as well) until they either make it clear that they are working towards a lower level of fidelity or they find some way to reach the standard set by their peers. I for one hope that this is the last time we need to (as long-time Harrier owners) ask why we have not seen significant, consistent updates.

 

100% agree with everything here. Their previous experience is with MSFS which for the most part is a pretty simplistic sim. I think they saw another market but unfortunately thought their previous methodology would be good enough for DCS. I think they have found that the DCS community is vastly different then the majority of the MSFS customer that are just fine with a simple model. While I think Nineline and Bignewy have done a tremendous amount to get the general bugs looked at instead of ignored I have little confidence in RAZBAM's ability to deliver the Harrier with all its major systems modeled correctly (e.g. ARBS). I doubt they have access to the needed documents as most are off limits to export. Therefore the way I see it this module should have been either advertised as FlamingCliffs level or never seen the light of day. No matter how much begging in the Heatblur forum for the F-14D the team is not budging from their not going to make it decision. They can't get the needed documents to make a DCS level representation of the aircraft and its systems so its not happening.

Edited September 13, 2020 by ruxtmp

[Fisherman82]

Is or is not Decoy a member of Razbam?

Or are there now over 500 comments and not one single one from Razbam?

 

Skickat från min D5503 via Tapatalk

[Hawkeye_UK]

Decoy I would suggest you guys stop teasing so much then... Its not funny...

 

So If you rely on SOUTH ATLANTIC (I belive the map is called, right?), the Mig 23 and the AMX to go by, I suggest you start treating your southamerican customers a bit better...

 

I Believe the map is named after the Islands that are there, the Falkland's Map, its listed as a thread on the Razbam main forum page not South Atlantic, that's a huge area and the map is all about the Falklands hope that helps if your looking for info on it.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Hawkeye_UK

[Hawkeye_UK]

Is or is not Decoy a member of Razbam?

Or are there now over 500 comments and not one single one from Razbam?

 

Skickat från min D5503 via Tapatalk

 

Decoy was the old community manger that was managing these forum's upto 3 weeks ago.

 

No clarification of his exact role within Razbam has been made that i'm aware of.

[skyblazer1]

We know that Razbam has some military contracts. That's probably where the real money is. Perhaps if we really care about quality work coming out of all flight sim developers, we should let razbam's reputation be known to friends and colleagues who work for the air forces of various countries. Talking to people who work in contracting, acquisitions, and training can probably go a long way towards steering contracts away from a company that doesn't create the best products, or the best customer relations -- and in the end that will better serve our countries and the entertainment community.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[NineLine]

Is or is not Decoy a member of Razbam?

Or are there now over 500 comments and not one single one from Razbam?

 

Skickat från min D5503 via Tapatalk

 

Decoy is a member of RAZBAM.

[CoBlue]

ED is not taking any responsibility for 3rd-party's whatsoever. 3rd-party's decide when a module is, out of EA, feature-complete & finished.

Interview with Katia Peredenko(ED COO), specifically about Razbam situation, she even says that Razbam products "are quite good":

 

Yet, ED is taking ≈30% on every 3rd-party module sold. But their obligation towards us paying customers stops there. 3rd-partys can do whatever they want.

 

This is unacceptable, as 3rd-partys can practically pump & dump modules as they wish without any repercussions.

 

I was always under the impression that ED would protect us, when 3rd-party devs don't deliver or misbehave contractually. Apparently that's not the case at all.

[NineLine]

 

This is unacceptable, as 3rd-partys can practically pump & dump modules as they wish without any repercussions.

 

 

Yes, totally unacceptable if the Harrier was being 'pumped & dumped', which it is not.

 

I was always under the impression that ED would protect us, when 3rd-party devs don't deliver or misbehave contractually. Apparently that's not the case at all.

 

Well I guess that is the danger of jumping into a thread late and not reading everything, we have been working with RAZBAM all week on this, so please try not to get too riled up at this point, they are still very much working on the Harrier, and we are working on getting all your concerns addressed. Thanks.

[NineLine]

We know that Razbam has some military contracts. That's probably where the real money is. Perhaps if we really care about quality work coming out of all flight sim developers, we should let razbam's reputation be known to friends and colleagues who work for the air forces of various countries. Talking to people who work in contracting, acquisitions, and training can probably go a long way towards steering contracts away from a company that doesn't create the best products, or the best customer relations -- and in the end that will better serve our countries and the entertainment community.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

Yes, 100%, in order to make them a better developer, you should 100% start a campaign to smear their reputation far and wide, I mean if they are out of business they cant ... wait... what was the goal?

 

Guys, this type of talk, along with the "Hey you guys, let's start legal action" is not conducive to repair the comms between users and the 3rd party. And in all honesty, it just needs to stop, please please keep letting us know your concerns on the Harrier if we are missing anything, and by all means, demand what you deserve, but also, let's try and think about the best way forward, threatening, insulting and hurling hate gets nobody nowhere.

 

Thanks.

[Mizzy]

Yes, totally unacceptable if the Harrier was being 'pumped & dumped', which it is not.

 

 

 

Well I guess that is the danger of jumping into a thread late and not reading everything, we have been working with RAZBAM all week on this, so please try not to get too riled up at this point, they are still very much working on the Harrier, and we are working on getting all your concerns addressed. Thanks.

 

Yes that is the problem, some people jumping on the 'hate wagon' before they have educated themselves with a few facts.

 

Mizzy

[viper2097]

Nineline, honestly, we have to repair nothing. Razbam should.

Take a look at Chickens post a few pages before and you know how Razbam thinks and want to make money. That combined with the fact that there is still, after one week, not a single official comment from Razbam here, while they seem to have plenty time to give arrogant postings on their Discord.

This says everything.

I'm looking forward to see, how this reputation killing situation for Razbam and also ED will get cleared up.

Edited September 13, 2020 by viper2097

[NineLine]

Nineline, honestly, we have to repair nothing. Razbam should.

Take a look at Chickens post a few pages before and you know how Razbam thinks and want to make money. That combined with the fact that there is still, after one week, not a single official comment from Razbam here, while they seem to have plenty time to give arrogant postings on their Discord.

This says everything.

I'm looking forward to see, how this reputation killing situation for Razbam and also ED will get cleared up.

 

I'm sorry, while RAZBAM does hold a much larger amount of the work here, there are a number of users that are already getting carried away as I described. Insulting, threatening, teasing, etc.

 

Let me ask you, as someone that has been a very strong critic of RAZBAM, your approach so far, how has it worked out for you? Do you feel like you have pushed them to be better over the past couple of years? Do you think doubling down on your anger towards them will help bridge communications?

 

If something isn't working, doubling down on it doesn't make things better. If I punch someone in the face, and they say its really hurting them, punching them harder won't make it stop hurting.

[NineLine]

@NineLine I can tell you for myself, with the way things appear, I'm getting closer to just walking away entirely from DCS. I'm going to watch and see how this all turns out, but I have more games than I can play, some news ones coming out this year, and I'll just move on.

 

That is entirely your choice, and we would be sad to see anyone go, all we can do now is our best to move things forward and get things back on track. Thanks.

[viper2097]

Let me ask you, as someone that has been a very strong critic of RAZBAM, your approach so far, how has it worked out for you? Do you feel like you have pushed them to be better over the past couple of years? Do you think doubling down on your anger towards them will help bridge communications?

 

You always say that I only critic Razbam. Have you also found my hundreths of posts which got ignored by them completely? Like all other posts and bug reports?

People don't get mad about anything in one day it is a long lasting process.

The more something is important for you, and the more arrogant and not caring the other one is, the faster and stronger you get mad.

 

You are right, a discussion is always better then being angry. But you can't have a discussion when the other is not listening, but instead gives arrogant words.

And at least, in my anger, I started this thread. And luckily it seems to change something.

 

And it is not too much, to ask for an official statement after ONE WEEK while they only post arrogant statements and lies on their own discord!

I want to know how they think they can fix this farce now, end especially until when.

Edited September 13, 2020 by viper2097

[statrekmike]

That is entirely your choice, and we would be sad to see anyone go, all we can do now is our best to move things forward and get things back on track. Thanks.

 

I have full faith that you and everyone else at ED are trying very hard to find some kind of solution to all of this. Even then, I am concerned that this will result in perhaps a six month long burst of meaningful progress and communication and then we will end up right back where we are now. This cycle isn't a new one and that is the part that I think some of us are really concerned about.

 

We know that you are in a tricky position because you are kinda stuck in the middle with all of this. To be bluntly honest, RAZBAM themselves should really be handling this and not you. The question I have is what happens if we end up in this situation again a handful of months from now? I know you can't speak for RAZBAM but maybe you could tell us where ED stands on this kind of thing. Is there a system in place that can help soften the blow of a worst case scenario?

 

Again. I really don't like being negative here and I am choosing my words pretty carefully so that I don't step on anyone's toes but this isn't the first time this has happened and while I hope it will be the last time, I also hope that if it isn't, ED has some kind of plan or system in place to get people what they bought and payed for. I mean, as far as RAZBAM is concerned, the Harrier is out of early access and while I am aware that they have stated that they will continue to update and support the module through "product sustainment", I am still getting pretty worried that I have been waiting a long time for a complete module that will never happen. Hopefully I am wrong but if I am not, I would like to know that ED is willing to step in and have a stance on things.

[NineLine]

You always say that I only critic Razbam. Have you also found my hundreths of posts which got ignored by them completely? Like all other posts and bug reports?

People don't get mad about anything in one day it is a long lasting process.

The more something is important for you, and the more arrogant and not caring the other one is, the faster and stronger you get mad.

 

You are right, a discussion is always better then being angry. But you can't have a discussion when the other is not listening, but instead gives arrogant words.

And at least, in my anger, I started this thread. And luckily it seems to change something.

 

And it is not too much, to ask for an official statement after ONE WEEK while they only post arrogant statements and lies on their own discord!

I want to know how they think they can fix this farce now, end especially until when.

 

 

I think you need to re-read what I said, I never said you only criticize, but when you do you are quite strong in that. I only said that while RAZBAM needs to make the biggest effort, everyone else could as well.

 

Please note that Decoy is still an official member of RAZBAM, and while I want Ron to spend more time here as well, its un fair to say no one from RAZBAM has fielded anything here.

[viper2097]

I said, there is still an official statement missing. That is something different then anyone from Razbam posting anything anywhere.

[skyblazer1]

Nineline,

 

Sarcasm isn't necessary, I take commercial contracts seriously, and I don't believe that a company that treats their customers the way Razbam does deserves to do business when national assets are in play. It's not a threat or a smear; I am encouraging people with connections to real world military VR training programs to let decision makers know how Razbam treats people -- I will be doing that with the guys I know who handle VR training and are always looking for options. I also believe that informed markets are necessary for healthy competition, and that spurs a better product for everyone. This isn't an extreme position, as I fear you interpret it to be by your response, but a position rooted in caring deeply about the best possible companies doing work for our training needs.

 

Cheers

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Hawkeye_UK]

I said, there is still an official statement missing. That is something different then anyone from Razbam posting anything anywhere.

 

+1 i think what is being meant is that nothing has been posted about from Razbam with any substance, and nothing from the management. We have a few words from the ex moderator on why he chose to leave, which in fairness if we are evaluating why we are here then he himself has to own and take responsibility as part of that process on failed communication. You can find a post i put out in June of this year alerting to the fact of growing resentment and that things had to improve. Nothing was done, infact you will note Decoy posted nothing at all throughout July. This is not being critical, its just stating the facts as they are.

 

Anyway history is done, it was good to see him post something however it didn't really provide anything just a statement blaming these forums for being toxic as a reason for him leaving. I do not see how this will engage the genuine concerns and zero customer support received.

 

Nineline and Bignewy as you can tell your efforts are always appreciated, but it really is for Razbam management to come to the support forum, as per the link in the sales page and discuss with the community. They however seem to be beyond that. It is becoming farcical.

 

How they cannot apologise for the comments they have made is beyond any logical reasoning.

[Fjordmonkey]

This was not meant as an insult. You seemed to be more and more obsessed about something. After all, it's Saturday night. You can't be serious about the money part. There are people for whom even the 35 $/Euro sale price has a certain value.

 

I can full well be serious about the money part, and I am. And I haven't stated that 35€/$ doesn't have value, I stated that to me spending that on a module that interests me, even if it doesn't turn out to be anything else than a giant pile of poo, is a risk I'm willing to take.

 

If 35€/$ is too much for other people, that's their business and not mine. Maybe then should reevaluate their spending-habits if it's that much of a burden financially. I know I've had to in the past, heh.

[bkthunder]

Well, Razbam are what they are and at this point I don't see any reason to expect anything from them, be it an official statement or else.

Honestly, whatever they say has no weight, actions speak louder than words (or silence in this case) and 3+ years have clearly shown what Razbam can and cannot do.

You can't possibly extract something from them if they just don't have the necessary skills to do it.

 

So let's start to talk about ED's role here:

 

• Has ED evaluated Razbam's ability to deliver to a DCS-level standard when enrolling them?
  
• Consequently (and provided this evaluation was done), why was a this developer given the go-ahead to develop and extremely complex aircraft such as the VTOL Harrier?
  
• Why, again, is ED trusting Razbam to deliver an even more complex aircraft, such as the F-15E (again, given their track record)?
  
• What is ED's position on selling a product on their official store page, which literally doesn't match the description?
  
• What is ED's plan to deliver what we paid for? (Yes, it's out of early access, so I am expecting exactly what I paid for at this point - a study level sim - and any EA excuse is invalid).
  

 

For example, Razbam is incapable of coding a working FPM (flight path marker / velocity vector) on their HUD, despite releasing a "bug fix" that didn't correct anything.

Is ED going to help razbam with the coding, in order to fix this basic bug on a fully released product sold on the official store, with the DCS logo on it, for $70?

 

 

These are the questions we should be asking at this point, and I hope ED will give an official statement.