viper2097 Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 I think it's less about EA itself, and more about how EA is handled by developers. Exactley, EA is a good thing. It just should not get abused - which means that work on it has to continue without stop until it is finished. Steam user - Youtube I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost84 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Looking after a forum section is not easy and for some teams it just takes up to much time, resources and energy that could be used on development, At the same time they have plenty of resources to create 3D-models of various upcoming aircraft, running various social media channels and Discord? the forum can also be a pretty hostile place so I can understand why communication here has been difficult. So it is better to not communicate at all? I can't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 9, 2020 ED Team Share Posted September 9, 2020 At the same time they have plenty of resources to create 3D-models of various upcoming aircraft, running various social media channels and Discord? So it is better to not communicate at all? I can't believe that. It is a lot to juggle around, as mentioned we are chatting with RAZBAM about improving communication here on the forum. Thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snappy Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) Looking after a forum section is not easy and for some teams it just takes up to much time, resources and energy that could be used on development, the forum can also be a pretty hostile place so I can understand why communication here has been difficult. Nineline and I are in chats with Ron and we will continue to try and help where we can, we have a tester who is looking at the bugs and reporting into our bug tracker currently. It will take time to check any issues. Thank you Thank you for answering BIGNEWY. Yes looking after support forums is not easy and resource-intensive, but honestly, that is the cost of doing business. If a developer is unable to meet that requirement and provide adequate customer support in the official Forums, I think then its best for them not to be in business at all, and this should also be one EDs requirements for any 3rd party developer. If you sell any products in the real world, you also need to have someone picking up the phone and answering customers questions or complaints.Even if its annoying and the person handling it could help in production. If you dont, you will run into trouble pretty quickly with customer proctection laws. Regards, Snappy Edited September 9, 2020 by Snappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expert Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) Exactley, EA is a good thing. It just should not get abused - which means that work on it has to continue without stop until it is finished. I couldn't have said it better than that :thumbup: At the same time they have plenty of resources to create 3D-models of various upcoming aircraft, running various social media channels and Discord It's all about the hype. Can you believe they claim to make the F15E? Thank you for answering BIGNEWY. ...but honestly, that is the cost of business.... ...If a developer is unable to meet that requirement and provide adequate customer support in the official Forums, I think then its best for them not to be in business at all... You are right. I'll tell you I have a more open mind. I would say to the devs: Are you unable to do a module at the level of a study level sim? okay, you state from the start that the module will have incomplete dynamics and avionics but at least it will be bug free. ah obviously the price will have to be much lower, and I don't think the devs like this part. The problem is that people keep buying EA to support by adopting the unhealthy "buy to support" habit. These same people get mad at you if you try to complain. For them it is right that we are just chickens to be plucked. Look the third part down here. https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=284141 Edited September 9, 2020 by Expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost84 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Well said, Snappy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conroy Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Business does call it CUSTOMER CARE. Customer Care Definition Customer care is the process of looking after customers to best ensure their satisfaction and delightful interaction with a business and its brand, goods and services. It is closely related to “customer experience” but different than “customer support” or “customer service.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper2097 Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 This discussion lasts now for three days. Beside the positive hands on from Nineline, Bignewy and tea_cypher, is there any (official) feedback from Razbam? It has a strange feeling that the responsible person(s) are still acting like a submarine. Three days should be more then enough to give a statement. Steam user - Youtube I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 9, 2020 ED Team Share Posted September 9, 2020 This discussion lasts now for three days. Beside the positive hands on from Nineline, Bignewy and tea_cypher, is there any (official) feedback from Razbam? It has a strange feeling that the responsible person(s) are still acting like a submarine. Three days should be more then enough to give a statement. We have said we are working on communication here on the forum, you will need to be patient. For now RAZBAM have been communicating on Discord. Thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost84 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Both Prowler and Zeus were online yesterday (look at their last activity at their profile page), but neither found it worth to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxOne007 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 So this is how they treat people that contributed to their products now, @ChickenSim This is utterly disgraceful and distasteful BN/9L or whoever decides this at ED, RAZBAM more than deserves to have their F-15E, A-29, Mig-23 (and all their 20 other announced aircraft) module rights taken away so that a competent 3rd Party or ED can make these and we don’t end up with a similar sh*t storm on these projects in a few years like we are now with the Harrier. This is honestly appalling how they treat people that give constructive criticism, and it’s not just Prowler and Zeus, it’s also Hank and OverStratos that lash out at anyone that says anything remotely negative or even just tries to discuss something in their Discord. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainstay Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 O dear.... I really was looking forward to the Mig-23 but seeying how the communication goes between them and people trying to ask for a professional reply makes me freeze my money transfer towards Razbam. Doesnt look good at all. Sith and Big are doing the damage control for people that should stand on their own two feet. I hope Nick has a good conversation with them about their future within DCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking 1-1 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 If a developer is unable to meet that requirement and provide adequate customer support in the official Forums, I think then its best for them not to be in business at all, and this should also be one EDs requirements for any 3rd party developer. This! I own the Harrier and I was like "Ok, it is not complete, but it is still nice." Now learning that it is in fact "complete" feels like April fools! I considered the Mudhen as a Day 1 purchase but seeing now how Razbam deals with this (no response in the forums, even on this thread) shows me that Razbam doesnt give a f*** about their products and, even worse, about their customers. So no more Razbam modules for me. And to be honest: This does not only damage the reputation of Razbam, it also damages the reputation of DCS in general. I hope ED is aware of this as well. Before you call everything a "bug": RTFM & try again! Thank you. :music_whistling: I9-9900k, 32 GB RAM, Geforce RTX 2080 TI, 128 GB M2 SSD, 1 TB SSD, Track IR, Warthog Hotas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 9, 2020 ED Team Share Posted September 9, 2020 Out of early Access but is in product sustainment. Bugs are being worked on, and we ( ED ) are helping with that. thanks p.s please do not use masked profanity, it is not needed to make a point. thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper2097 Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) So the Harrier will definitely not getting pushed back in Early Access and will still be considered as "released" "feature complete", "done" whatever? Is this already decided? Last word spoken? Altough many expected systems from the store page are either missing, or mainly missing / wrong? Do I understand this correct? Edited September 9, 2020 by viper2097 Steam user - Youtube I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted September 9, 2020 ED Team Share Posted September 9, 2020 So the Harrier will not get back into Early Access and will still be considered as "released" "feature complete", "done" whatever? Is this already decided? Last word spoken? Do I understand this correct? AV-8B is out of early access and is in product sustainment, Correct, I know you may not like that, but that does not change it. We will look at the concerns of the community, we are working through the bugs. It will take time for us to go through the reported issues and check, you will all have to be patient. Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernbear Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Ah I see its that time of the month again, Welp only one thing for it... But in all seriousness I'd like to extend a hand of thanks to all of what the ED Community manages have accomplished so far with this current issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzsekeb Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Hey, look on the bright side, we can now complain about every single little thing wrong with the Harrier as we can no longer be told that "it's early access, what did you expect?" What is even the point of the early access tag at this stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPEC Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) Too Bad actually. But thanks ED for stepping in. Gesendet von meinem SM-N975F mit Tapatalk Edited September 9, 2020 by OPEC The Tornado is being developed by as many people as the Tornado Development Team contains. It progresses rapidly with the speed of the Tornado development progress. It will be released at the Tornado release date. Support your local Getränkemarkt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowbagger Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 ...But in all seriousness I'd like to extend a hand of thanks to all of what the ED Community manages have accomplished so far with this current issue. Agreed. Thanks to BIGNEWY and NineLine for taking this on, and doing what should be done by RAZBAM. It's not really a pleasant situation, but getting your feedback gives the sense that the Harrier won't be forgotten by ED. It's appreciated. Actually representing your product on the official forum may be time consuming, but other, smaller developers manage it here, and there are too many Razbam posts in the Mig-23, F-15E, Malvinas threads for me to buy in to that explanation too heavily. CPU:5600X | GPU:RTX2080 | RAM:32GB | Disk:860EVOm.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=4c=Nikola Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 AV-8B is out of early access and is in product sustainment, Correct, I know you may not like that, but that does not change it. I just hope you all in ED understand that's not good PR-vise. Do not expect fairness. The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkthunder Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) I just hope you all in ED understand that's not good PR-vise. It’s out of early access. Good. The product DOES NOT meet the official product description, that is what I based my buying decision on. So ED and Razbam are officially stating that they HAVE NOT MET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PRODUCT they sold. I want my money back. I could care less about product sustainment or whatever they decide to name it. The product is not complete and doesn’t match the description. Is it a scam? If not, refund. I am serious. Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, digital content should be of a satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and as described. Edited September 9, 2020 by bkthunder Windows 10 - Intel i7 7700K 4.2 Ghz (no OC) - Asus Strix GTX 1080 8Gb - 16GB DDR4 (3000 MHz) - SSD 500GB + WD Black FZEX 1TB 6Gb/s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper2097 Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 I would really consider to think again if ED will approve a roll out of the EA. Otherwise I'm seeing it the same as bkthunder. Enoigh talk over all the years, its no time for some action. Steam user - Youtube I am for quality over quantity in DCS modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schurem Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Jesus what a dramatic overreaction again. Can't we all be chill? I5 9600KF, 32GB, 3080ti, G2, PointCTRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notproplayer3 Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) Jesus what a dramatic overreaction again. Can't we all be chill? No. To be honest, 70$ may be a lot for some people, it is for me at least... So I get why people would react the way they do and I won't dare say they should chill. Edited September 9, 2020 by notproplayer3 Full fidelity su27/mig29 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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