3090? 3080? AMD!

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Well that's my whole point. "Allocated" doesn't tell us much.

[Taz1004]

I tested this Afterburner per process VRAM thing and what it shows is VRAM "Allocation" per process. Not "Usage". So it shows how much VRAM is "allocated" to DCS specifically rather than whole Windows so it is more useful but it still doesn't show how much of the allocated VRAM is being "used".

 

Excuse the poor quality from my phone but that's only way I can take screenshot of both. I compared it to old UE4 project.

 

Afterburner showing 4155 VRAM is allocated total.

2959 is allocated to UE4 "process"

Actual UE4 GPU profiling shows 2216.39 actually being "used" if you add those numbers.

 

That's what GPU profiling looks like by the way. Shows how much of it is being used by what. And as far as I know only SDK will show that. I haven't seen any 3rd party tool that shows actual usage. And I don't see how it can... as these numbers can only be interpreted at the source level.

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Taz1004

[Thinder]

Well that's my whole point. "Allocated" doesn't tell us much.

 

It tells you that an application has X amount of VRAM to use, if you have set your paging files properly it should all be towards the game and the CPU and GPU should have a lot more RAM to use.

 

I have a 223 GB SDD labeled "Gaming" for DCS and DCS Beta only, but I also use 65536 Mb of paging file space on it with 48% free space and when I double the amount of RAM I'll also double the size of the paging file.

 

 

What is the Purpose of RAM?

RAM is the area that stores needed variables and content. Once you launch a game on your gaming PC, the RAM is an active participant because the game is loaded into it. RAM is used instead of the hard drive directly because it’s faster and intended to store temporary items. Bigger and faster RAM is preferred because it improves the gaming experience and leads to faster loading times. Not only are you able to store more temporary information, but also the information can be read and written faster.

Windows runs on a separate SDD, so if your system is set for giving priority to the application running, everything else can be stored on paging files.

 

If your system is optimized for gaming, your RAM and VRAM will be allocated to the game and your O.S will not need to use it when you play.

 

 

......

[coldViPer]

I tested this Afterburner per process VRAM thing and what it shows is VRAM "Allocation" per process. Not "Usage". So it shows how much VRAM is "allocated" to DCS specifically rather than whole Windows so it is more useful but it still doesn't show how much of the allocated VRAM is being "used".

 

 

 

Good point, thanks for the clarification.

[Taz1004]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean the Afterburner "per process" is not useful. It is actually very useful.

Total VRAM allocated versus VRAM allocated to DCS will tell you how much of it is being wasted.

 

ColdViper's screenshot above for example, shows there is something other than DCS claiming 3.5GB of VRAM. Windows with nothing running will take between 1GB - 1.5GB of VRAM which you can't do anything about. So there's about 2GB that's being wasted.

 

It could be something like extra programs, extra monitors in extended mode. And even Windows aero and animation effects will waste VRAM.

[Aluminum Donkey]

@ SkateZilla

 

Actually considering to buy an RTX3090, the most delicate question for me is:

 

Is it worth to buy it? the question is not if the card is worth it of course!

It is just hard to have an idea of what technology or new improvements(weather, graphic, etc) ED will bring to DCS in the next following 5 years!!!

Of course my VR experience will be much better for sure.

Will DCS give us a major graphic evolution to justify ,i burn my bank card for such Graphic card?

 

Thanks for any available info you might give, it would help many people to decide what to do.

Because i am really lost

 

 

If you have to ask, no it isn't worth it.

 

If you're having thoughts like this, don't bother buying one. Only buy it if the cost is fairly trivial for you. Remember, you'll still be playing exactly the same game as you already are right now :)

 

AD

[Adam]

If you have to ask, no it isn't worth it.

 

If you're having thoughts like this, don't bother buying one. Only buy it if the cost is fairly trivial for you. Remember, you'll still be playing exactly the same game as you already are right now :)

 

AD

 

I love that sort of sound advise! Nice!

 

My 2c. What is it that you have to sacrifice in order to get it? You're not talking about a bank card - you're talking about something else that you won't be able to have if you get the card.

 

My wife wanted to spend all sorts of extra cash on our wedding reception. Trinkets on tables that meant nothing but were going to cost us a small fortune. It was only 'burning the bank card' in her eyes and the wedding was worth it of course.

 

However when I said that what she's spending on those useless items (as I saw it) could be converted to 2 separate weekends away for a couple of short get-a-ways throughout the next year - it gave her the perspective she needed. She opted to have 2 short weekends away later, than having extra trinkets and trash that did nothing for no one on the reception tables because 2 get aways were far more valuable than trash.

 

While it was just figures on a bank card it meant nothing to sacrifice. When it was converted to something else - different story.

 

So adding to @Aluminium Donkey's advise (which I think is great btw) and to put another perspective on it... what are you sacrificing in order to purchase the card that will depreciate over the next 5 years, and is it going to be worth that sacrifice for the same game just with better graphics? Only you can answer that question.

[hansangb]

@ SkateZilla

 

Actually considering to buy an RTX3090, the most delicate question for me is:

 

Is it worth to buy it? the question is not if the card is worth it of course!

It is just hard to have an idea of what technology or new improvements(weather, graphic, etc) ED will bring to DCS in the next following 5 years!!!

Of course my VR experience will be much better for sure.

Will DCS give us a major graphic evolution to justify ,i burn my bank card for such Graphic card?

 

Thanks for any available info you might give, it would help many people to decide what to do.

Because i am really lost

 

The folks in the VR thread are reporting being able to run DCS with high SS value, shadows etc. So if it's disposable income, it may be worth a look.

 

I think the point that most 2D players miss is that in 2D, there isn't much difference between 80 or 90 FPS. But in VR, every missed frame counts. So the more headroom you have, the better.

[streakeagle]

If you have money to burn, why not get the fastest card with the most VRAM. I was planning to get it. But I am grounded in reality: heat, size, and cost effectiveness are huge disadvantages. Double the price for 10-15% over the 3080 doesn't cut it. The main thing that makes it better than the 3080 is the VRAM, and the 3080 will almost certainly be updated with more VRAM.

 

If AMD is competitive with the 3080, I may go AMD, especially if it uses less power and runs cooler. But that is a big if because of the 256-bit bus and slower, regular VRAM.

 

I am principally interested in driving a Reverb G2, so the 3080 with more VRAM may be my best option if Big Navi turns out to be all hype.

[Thinder]

What I don't understand is why people keep taking one component at a time and never as a balanced system:

 

Motherboard/Bus speeds + RAM + CPU + GPU.

 

If you have a bottleneck somewhere and fail to sort it out, there is no point going for a £999.99 card, it's not worth the expense.

 

Before committing your finances to one of those components, you'd better figure if they provide you with a balanced system from stock.

 

Personally, since I'm not aiming for a top system, I don't have this issue:

I can figure out which part I'll need to upgrade for the sort of performance increase I'm looking for at much lower cost.

 

For a start, socket is the same for the new gen of AMD processors, the new GPU will not need a change of PSU and be fully compatible with the RAM I actually use (my motherboard currently support the Ryzen 9 3900X possible BIOS updates for newer CPU? and PCIe 4).

 

So I'll chose the best solution according to my budget and this mean the best available well bounded CPU/GPU combination within this budget.

 

The most efficient solution being the one with the lowest percentage of bottleneck at the resolution I'll use in VR, which will be dictated by the HP Reverb resolution.

 

Once I get this figured out, I can make a choice, but going for the strongest GPU possible for the stake of "on paper" figures is a no go.

 

Even if I had the budget for a high end system I'd use the same selection method.

 

......

Edited October 6, 2020 by Thinder

[coldViPer]

ColdViper's screenshot above for example, shows there is something other than DCS claiming 3.5GB of VRAM. Windows with nothing running will take between 1GB - 1.5GB of VRAM which you can't do anything about. So there's about 2GB that's being wasted.

 

It could be something like extra programs, extra monitors in extended mode. And even Windows aero and animation effects will waste VRAM.

 

 

Yeah Windows is taking some Vram, but that 2Gb is question mark. Have to investigate. Extra programs I have on background is Oculus app, OculusTrayTool and Afterburner. I think Oculus may consume some vram, who knows.

[OnlyforDCS]

We all have to take into account the continuous software issues with DCS World. I mean this piece of software is really complex. It is being updated very regularly, and is hardly bug free. (Im being very generous here). I'm pretty sure that memory leaks abound in DCS World, and because it is a complex piece of software (especially in a multiplayer, heavy, script-rich environment) these things can and quickly do bring even the best PCs to their knees.

 

I mean throwing newer and better hardware at the problem is only going to take you so far.

Edited October 6, 2020 by OnlyforDCS

[Taz1004]

Not sure if it has much to do with complexity of DCS. I just found out a way to turn off all the block buildings on Caucasus and I'm getting huge fps boost. Just doesn't make sense to me. It's just bunch of boxes. And takes so much resources. Where DCS spends its resources is questionable to me.

 

And it doesn't look too bad with them off... doesn't look right at close up but fps boost is so big I might just leave them off.

[speed-of-heat]

Hey Taz, what do you mean "turn off all the block buildings" and how do you do it ?

[Taz1004]

Hey Taz, what do you mean "turn off all the block buildings" and how do you do it ?

 

All the instanced buildings in towns. I always wondered why everything stutters when looking at the towns. And was trying to troubleshoot what was causing it and it sure was those block buildings.

 

You can turn it off from the debug options.

 

\Config\terrain\terrainoptions41.lua

 

Line 342

switchoffFetchUniqueScenes = 0;

 

Set it to 1.

 

Of course it'll flatten all towns so I wouldn't recommend using this unless you're desperate for fps. And probably not recommended for slow and low flying choppers but for high and fast fliers, I don't think you'll notice much difference if you have good terrain texture pack.

 

And it doesn't effect airfields or drop in buildings. Only the instanced town buildings.

 

Also another benefit from this is all the jaggies from these buildings in the distance are gone.

 

 

Edit: Actually, above is just for quick testing and better way to remove it is to delete or rename "BlockBuildings" folder from \Mods\terrains\Caucasus\Models\

This will keep the trees in the towns making it look better. I think I'm gonna keep it this way.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Taz1004

[speed-of-heat]

interesting, i will give it a play later on!

[coldViPer]

Interesting, I wonder why there is no "Building visibility" -slider in DCS settings like "Trees visibility" :D Would be handy.

[stormrider]

All the instanced buildings in towns. I always wondered why everything stutters when looking at the towns. And was trying to troubleshoot what was causing it and it sure was those block buildings.

 

You can turn it off from the debug options.

 

\Config\terrain\terrainoptions41.lua

 

Line 342

 

 

Set it to 1.

 

Of course it'll flatten all towns so I wouldn't recommend using this unless you're desperate for fps. And probably not recommended for slow and low flying choppers but for high and fast fliers, I don't think you'll notice much difference if you have good terrain texture pack.

 

And it doesn't effect airfields or drop in buildings. Only the instanced town buildings.

 

Also another benefit from this is all the jaggies from these buildings in the distance are gone.

 

 

Edit: Actually, above is just for quick testing and better way to remove it is to delete or rename "BlockBuildings" folder from \Mods\terrains\Caucasus\Models\

This will keep the trees in the towns making it look better. I think I'm gonna keep it this way.

 

 

I noticed that some buildings are rendered farther than others. So there must be a classification somewhere. Would it be possible to use the above or a similar function to hide a certain class of buildings while leaving others as was?

[Mustang]

I posted this on the 17th -

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4490592&postcount=52

 

that was nearly 3 weeks ago and I'm still waiting on Scan Computers UK to deliver (ironically the last e-mail I has from them says delivery expected 18th Sept 2020) there are many others in the same situation, a discussion thread was started about it here

 

[eatthis]

im building a proper system from the ground up, going nearly all in (probably not as far as a 3090 though) cpu and gpu will be watercooled and overclocked.

waiting for this gen stuff to be out, its looking like the new ryzen might beat the 10900k atm.

gfx card is up in the air atm maybe thinking 20gb 3080 or navi.

anybody compared 3080 vs 3090 for dcs vr yet?

[Thinder]

I don't know how many of you did fly sims such as Jane's IAF but at the time, a pixel on the map was the size of a building block in DCS.

 

This means, 3D model + Texture + redraw + shadow.

 

So don't expect your graphic card to cope on its own even if it's one of the fancy new Nvidia models, you need the whole system to work for you.

 

As for the game itself it's not really the cause of the issues at all: Between your motherboard and its buses, RAM, CPU and GPU it would be amazing if all was set up for optimizing gaming experience in DCS.

 

Check your paging files, they should be selected on a different disk than Windows typically twice the size of your RAM and GPU proprietary dedicated to the Programs.

 

It would be surprising if the Graphic card needs to use it for as long as you don't have a bottleneck between the RAM and the CPU but even with this priority it will still be able to use paging files.

 

Then how much bottleneck do you have between CPU and GPU? If it's above 10% you'd be better off with a balanced system with components 10% slower than your super-fast RAM or CPU or GPU.

 

Your percentage of bottleneck is going to change with the resolution you'll be using, since I plan for the HP Reverb G2 I compute for its resolution.

 

Pointing fingers at the game is not very constructive nor accurate, fine-tuning your system for gaming is a lot more efficient than sticking a faster component.

 

In short, new technologies needs sorting out and fine tuning before they can truly work for you.

 

......

Edited October 6, 2020 by Thinder

[Harlikwin]

Interesting, I wonder why there is no "Building visibility" -slider in DCS settings like "Trees visibility" :D Would be handy.

 

I think the Syria map is the only one to actually do that, you can see the buildings pop in like trees. But not sure if a slider controls it.

[eatthis]

I don't know how many of you did fly sims such as Jane's IAF but at the time, a pixel on the map was the size of a building block in DCS.

 

This means, 3D model + Texture + redraw + shadow.

 

So don't expect your graphic card to cope on its own even if it's one of the fancy new Nvidia models, you need the whole system to work for you.

 

As for the game itself it's not really the cause of the issues at all: Between your motherboard and its buses, RAM, CPU and GPU it would be amazing if all was set up for optimizing gaming experience in DCS.

 

Check your paging files, they should be selected on a different disk than Windows typically twice the size of your RAM and GPU proprietary dedicated to the Programs.

 

It would be surprising if the Graphic card needs to use it for as long as you don't have a bottleneck between the RAM and the CPU but even with this priority it will still be able to use paging files.

 

Then how much bottleneck do you have between CPU and GPU? If it's above 10% you'd be better off with a balanced system with components 10% slower than your super-fast RAM or CPU or GPU.

 

Your percentage of bottleneck is going to change with the resolution you'll be using, since I plan for the HP Reverb G2 I compute for its resolution.

 

Pointing fingers at the game is not very constructive nor accurate, fine-tuning your system for gaming is a lot more efficient than sticking a faster component.

 

In short, new technologies needs sorting out and fine tuning before they can truly work for you.

 

......

 

 

no, its literally the purpose software to work efficiently on existing hardware!

a balanced system is great but if a piece of software massively overloads a part of the hardware (eg cpu cores) whilst underutilizing others then theres no amount of hardware balancing you can do to make up for that inneficiency, you can get part way with brute force but even the best hardware out there can only do so much.

[hansangb]

no, its literally the purpose software to work efficiently on existing hardware!

a balanced system is great but if a piece of software massively overloads a part of the hardware (eg cpu cores) whilst underutilizing others then theres no amount of hardware balancing you can do to make up for that inneficiency, you can get part way with brute force but even the best hardware out there can only do so much.

 

 

Since the beginning of time, urrr epoch time would be more appropriate, HW has been thrown at the problem of "slow".

[Thinder]

no.... you can get part way with brute force but even the best hardware out there can only do so much.

 

 

You start by saying no but end up with the same conclusion...

 

A bottleneck anywhere between your motherboard buses and your head set is going to prevent the whole system to work efficiently.

 

So it make sense to 1) make sure you have a board with buses that support your hardware. 2) To bound each component so as to limit the percentage of bottleneck. 3) To make sure your system is set up for the purpose of gaming.

 

Splashing £ 999.99 in the fastest GPU make no sense if you don't have cleared the points 1,2 and 3.

 

Before I commit to half this amount of money I check compatibility of my motherboard, then the best bound between CPU and GPU, eventually RAM but that's not going to be the limiting factor with modern RAM if you fit enough of it.

 

Since I've done that, I focused on cooling, at FULL LOAD my system doesn't run at more than 67.25°/ 4300 MHz CPU, 76°/1974 MHz Core Clock, GPU, while running 3D Mark Fire Strike Ultra with MSAA set to 2 at 3849 x 2160.

 

As for my O.S it's optimized as well, large number of apps that I don't need are disabled, every single automatic update is disabled, the rest set to start manually when possible, paging files sorted, the minimum amount of game related apps running.

 

All of this made a huge difference playing in VR, the game is way smoother and responsive, even with the CV1 the cockpit is a lot clearer to read, so if this system can't handle a Reverb G2 I know what to do and I can do it:

 

Support for Gen2(PCI_E4), Ryzen 9 and 4000/4133 MHz RAM (by A-XMP OC MODE), all I got to do is figure which combo will give me the lowest percentage of bottleneck for the budget I allocate to an upgrade.

 

If people were doing their home work and paying attention to what they have before upgrading, a lot of trouble would be avoided.

 

 

One topic greatly ignored:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4512075#post4512075

 

......

Edited October 6, 2020 by Thinder