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It comes down to how much future proofing you want to do. Are you building a system for a 1, 2, 3, or more year upgrade cycle. If you're building a budget PC with a 500-600w PSU, you're probably not the target audience for a "flagship" or high end card. If you're what the market considers and enthusiasts or overclocker, you probably have a sufficient (750w+) PSU. While some underestimate their power draw, I would argue that just as many overestimate their power draw as your hardware is hardly ever stressed to full loads (gaming).

 

We're getting a bit off-track but this is a good watch:

 

 

 

That's right, I got my 1080Ti 11GB from CEX, basically new for £361 including exchange voucher from my previous GPU, I'm not going to get into an upgrade that's require changing my PSU now when I'm planning around a budget.

 

I planned with 64GB of RAM which I will not have before I buy the HP headset, since my PC meets required amount of RAM and its main limitation is cooling, I'll get a good case with 3 120mm fans first and an Arctic Freezer 7 for the CPU.

 

I'll play safe while overclocking just enough to get smooth gaming at higher res in VR, it should last me for a couple of years.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4488381&postcount=4

 

 

...


Edited by Thinder

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It comes down to how much future proofing you want to do. Are you building a system for a 1, 2, 3, or more year upgrade cycle. If you're building a budget PC with a 500-600w PSU, you're probably not the target audience for a "flagship" or high end card. If you're what the market considers and enthusiasts or overclocker, you probably have a sufficient (750w+) PSU. While some underestimate their power draw, I would argue that just as many overestimate their power draw as your hardware is hardly ever stressed to full loads (gaming).

 

We're getting a bit off-track but this is a good watch:

 

 

One argument for "more powerful PSU" is that a good power supply can last 10 years. So that means it can be reused with 3 or 4 generation of upgrades. So if one component could benefit from future-proofing, it would be the power supply.

hsb

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One argument for "more powerful PSU" is that a good power supply can last 10 years. So that means it can be reused with 3 or 4 generation of upgrades. So if one component could benefit from future-proofing, it would be the power supply.

 

 

More powerful doesn't mean better quality, that's why people should do their homework and base their choice on quality rather than power.

 

This is exactly what I did when I chose the Corsair PSU, I was fully aware of the fact that it would deliver the full 750W continuously before I purchased it.

 

The fact that I didn't go for a more powerful PSU is only relevant to the fact that I am not planning to get a top PC but mid-range, therefore there is no need for more power output.

 

On the other hand, Nvidia releasing GPUs with far more power requirements than the equivalent AMD GPU is another topic.

 

If you're ready to spend £649.00 in a GEFORCE RTX 3080 with a Required System Power of 750W when AMD develop GPUs with equivalent performance but 50% lower power drain I don't see where the gain is.

 

In the case of my EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2, Suggested PSU is 600 W, which means that when I will upgrade it with a new generation AMD I'll go for the equivalent Suggested PSU, with a performance gain.

 

I have more than 150W to play around since my 600W system includes overclock plus fan and storage I will not need but included in the computation of my system power consumption.

 

 

My actual PSU is far enough to take care of a more powerful CPU to bound with the AMD GPU and eventually new RAM.

 

When I will replace my 1080Ti in the future I'll look at the power requirements and go for the GPU offering the best power to performance ratio.

 

The whole point about the need for a more powerful PSU to compensate for the inability of Nvidia to provide players with power gains is moot, we don't have to buy those new RTX GPUs especially if it means that we have to loose in performances because they're technologically behind.

 

 

......

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

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One argument for "more powerful PSU" is that a good power supply can last 10 years. So that means it can be reused with 3 or 4 generation of upgrades. So if one component could benefit from future-proofing, it would be the power supply.

 

As it has been mentioned, a more powerful ( higher wattage?) PSU isn't always synonymous with quality. I do agree that a higher wattage PSU is more likely to have better quality components as it doesn't make much financial sense for a manufacturer to put high end components into a lower wattage PSU which will bring it to the same price range as a higher rated PSU; however, that mostly applies to the 400-600w range.

 

I do agree that the PSU is one of the core components that it pays dividends when going with higher quality and rating as it is likely to last you for several builds and is often overlooked. Always makes me wonder when someone drops big $$$ on a CPU and GPU, only to cheap out on a power supply... The life blood of the system. In the last 10 years I've only had two PSU's. My TT tough power 750 lasted me close to 6 years. Then I upgraded to a Seasonic 850 when the TT lost a 12v rail; its going on 4 years and hoping to get at least 2-3 more years out of it.

 

My thought when upgrading a PSU has been, estimate what your comsumotion is likely to be, then give yourself 25-50% headroom. Always buy quality brand PSU, your system and your sanity will thank you.

 

As for 3080's power consumption, it doesn't bother me as it's nothing I really care about. I always overclock and run watercooling to squeeze every last bit of performance I can out of the hardware.


Edited by EightyDuce

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Rumour has it the top tier Big Navi card also has two power connections, with a 300W requirement.

 

 

TDP (thermal design power) for my EVGA GTX 1080 Ti SC2 is 250 W and Suggested PSU 600 W, if the top AMD Big Navi is 300W one can see a reason to go for AMD instead of Nvidia.

 

Personally, I'll go for a mid range with increased performances over my 1080ti but not the top range.

 

 

 

 

......

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

M-2000C. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. MiG-29 "Fulcrum". 

Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.

 

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As it has been mentioned, a more powerful ( higher wattage?) PSU isn't always synonymous with quality. I do agree that a higher wattage PSU is more likely to have better quality components as it doesn't make much financial sense for a manufacturer to put high end components into a lower wattage PSU which will bring it to the same price range as a higher rated PSU; however, that mostly applies to the 400-600w range.

 

I do agree that the PSU is one of the core components that it pays dividends when going with higher quality and rating as it is likely to last you for several builds and is often overlooked. Always makes me wonder when someone drops big $$$ on a CPU and GPU, only to cheap out on a power supply... The life blood of the system. In the last 10 years I've only had two PSU's. My TT tough power 750 lasted me close to 6 years. Then I upgraded to a Seasonic 850 when the TT lost a 12v rail; its going on 4 years and hoping to get at least 2-3 more years out of it.

 

My thought when upgrading a PSU has been, estimate what your comsumotion is likely to be, then give yourself 25-50% headroom. Always buy quality brand PSU, your system and your sanity will thank you.

 

As for 3080's power consumption, it doesn't bother me as it's nothing I really care about. I always overclock and run watercooling to squeeze every last bit of performance I can out of the hardware.

 

 

Well aware. I thought that was well established. But I guess I should have made it clearer. Platinum is what I buy.

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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I always overclock and run watercooling to squeeze every last bit of performance I can out of the hardware.

 

 

Do you watercool your 1080Ti and if yes do you have a viable solution?

 

 

Thanks!

MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX 7B86vHB1(Beta version) BIOS, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB, 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ RGB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 3200 CL14, Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS. My G2 is DEAD, I'll get VR again when headsets will be better.

M-2000C. F/A-18C Hornet. F-15C. MiG-29 "Fulcrum". 

Avatar: Escadron de Chasse 3/3 Ardennes.

 

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Rumour has it the top tier Big Navi card also has two power connections, with a 300W requirement.

 

I believe it's past rumor now. The official released images show two eight pin power connectors on it.

 

Also Anandtech in their 30 series article pointed out that we should expect to see performance per watt stag mating in most electronics products:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16057/nvidia-announces-the-geforce-rtx-30-series-ampere-for-gaming-starting-with-rtx-3080-rtx-3090

 

Apparently the physics that made smaller parts run cooler doesn't continue at the node sizes we are operating at,so we can expect things to keep getting hotter over time.

 

Note: RDNA2 has a 50% performance per watt over RDNA1 due to logic and design improvements, not a node shrink. I think that's largely because Vega was just such a power hungry architecture that it left a lot on the table, even after RDNA1 improved over it. Kind of the way Zen 1 being a huge leap over Bulldozer didn't necessarily make it a great processor.

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Would it have raytracing? I don't care about raytracing for games but this is requirement for my work.

Will have ray tracing, some kind of DLSS, etc. (the same things you will encounter on the new consoles).

But Nvidia will have more things (dynamic chroma, etc)....

The upcoming RDNA2 are scheduled to shrink on 5 nm next year (Nvidia ones too).

5 nm will be able to consume less watts at same performance. (More than 300 watts seems a lot to me).

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Would it have raytracing? I don't care about raytracing for games but this is requirement for my work.

 

rDNA2 GPUs support DXR

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[sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic]

My PC specs below:

Case: Corsair 400C

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GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X

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Adored TV said there there would higher RMA with Ampere, but so far the news dont clarify if this a technical issue with the card, drivers or if this is reflection of people in denial not caring about power requirement increase if that brought them more performance while having subpar power supply.

[sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic]

My PC specs below:

Case: Corsair 400C

PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum

CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T)

RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T

MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4

GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X

Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO

Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red

HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals

Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P

 

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Nvidia even had to paper launch their clunky cards, because after Big Navi on the shelfs, nobody will be interested in Nvidia anymore ;-)

 

recent rumors too good to be true, aren't they


Edited by Motomouse

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If 6900XT's are good enough I might go with an EVGA Hybrid version of that when they come out (most triple fans wont fit im my case since I placed a radiator in push-pull config at the front).

And by good I mean:

-300W or less power consumption.

- that will be equally fast across all resolutions not just 4K.

-Don't care about ray tracing, prefer rasterization upgrade.

[sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic]

My PC specs below:

Case: Corsair 400C

PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum

CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T)

RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T

MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4

GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X

Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO

Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red

HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals

Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P

 

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Nvidia even had to paper launch their clunky cards, because after Big Navi on the shelfs, nobody will be interested in Nvidia anymore ;-)

 

recent rumors too good to be true, aren't they

 

I think the rumors of paper launch has been debunked by many. But if it makes your Navi launch more exciting, go for it.

hsb

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i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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Since Im watching all those launches closely I was wondering if there is any user with AMD Gpu running VR that could provide his experience (if one had Nvidia card before or after, for comparative reasons that would be even better). I'm playing in VR on 1080Ti and its time to switch, but was wondering about AMDs performance and software side of things especially in VR.

AMD Ryzen 5900X @ 4.95 Ghz / Asus Crosshair VII X470 / 32 GB DDR4 3600 Mhz Cl16 / Radeon 6800XT / Samsung 960 EVO M.2 SSD / Creative SoundBlaster AE-9 / HP Reverb G2 / VIRPIL T-50CM /
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Adored TV said there there would higher RMA with Ampere, but so far the news dont clarify if this a technical issue with the card, drivers or if this is reflection of people in denial not caring about power requirement increase if that brought them more performance while having subpar power supply.

 

Right.

 

Somewhere else on this forum - can't remember where - people were insisting that their mid range 650W, 750W and 850W PSUs would definitely be sufficient. What these people don't seem to understand is that while the overall PSU is rated to - well, let's just take the mid case which is a typical nice mid range PSU... 750W - hitting 750W power draw is NOT THE ONLY ISSUE. Far more fundamental is that these PSUs have detailed specifications that describe limiting power draw on individual rails of the PSU. If peak current draw on a single +12V rail exceeds the maximum specified, while the overall power draw on the PSU could be within specification, the user could exceed the limit of an individual power rail.

 

What happens then? Either a system crash, or artefacts, or an unexpected slow system with system instability.

 

GDDR6 used on Turing cards and many earlier generations of Nvidia GPUs is not error correcting: if GPUs ask for more current and this is not supplied sufficiently quickly non error correcting will often exhibit artefacts on screen before ultimately crashing the system.

 

GDDR6X used on Ampere is error correcting. Hence if the GPU detects memory inconsistencies, the GPU tries to resolve the inconsistency by redoing calculations. Hence before system crash your system might run slow. And then if the GPU really can't figure out what the hell is going on then it might crash.

 

Igors lab has done testing where he shows that the GDDR6X on Ampere is running at c.100 deg C on the Founders Edition 3080 with backplate. The memory is rated to 105 deg C, so that is within specification... but it is awfully close. For that reason - while Micron produce GDDR6X capable of running at 21Gbps - Nvidia chose 19Gbps rated GDDR6X for the 3080 and 3090. If they fitted the higher clocked stuff they would have bigger problems cooling it and the memory controller of their 8nm Samsung GPU die.

 

So on top of all the usual reasons for RMAs (manufacturing defects, component failures etc) we have two additional sources from weak design / design compromises resulting from Nvidia's choice of Samsung 8nm and GDDR6X: 1) high system power draw, causing system instability on systems with insufficiently powerful GPUs (or old, degraded PSUs) and 2) crashing causes by system components - very often the memory - getting too hot.

 

Note that electronic components wear out: electron creep in transistors. This happens faster when silicon is run close to its maximum temperatures for long periods. Hence the importance of 3 year plus warranties and a AIB service centre with customer friendly turn around.

 

I am not saying don't get Ampere... I might get one myself. But I am saying buyer beware. And AMD's offering this season deserves a look in as it is using a more power efficient TSMC node for the GPU and it is using GDDR6 which is likely to be easier to cool. This is why Nvidia's Ampere Quadro cards are using the "inferior" GDDR6, not 6X. "Moores Law is Dead" did a good video on this for people that are interested in the detail. You might not care about a melting polar ice cap. Maybe you do. Maybe you don't. But I do expect you care if your GPU works and keeps working over it's lifecycle.


Edited by Milou

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HEH... interesting

 

The RTX 3080 is the most controversial launch we have seen in a long time... and it continues to spiral out of control.

 

Here is the Article we reference in this video - https://www.igorslab.de/en/what-real-what-can-be-investigative-within-the-crashes-and-instabilities-of-the-force-rtx-3080-andrtx-3090/

 

Watching everything from the Ampere's launch, to FE cards (rumoured to be hand picked examples) "instantly out of stock", AIB higher prices, and now these problems, the part I find funny and sad at same time is how right both Jim from AdoredTV, and the fella from Moore's Law Is Dead, seemed to be well before all this happened.

 

If any of you feels kind of disappointed for not finding any RTX3080 to buy, well... maybe that was a blessing in disguise.

Wait for the new AMD Navi graphics cards, as it could be the case that Nvidia may have handed them the victory in this generation of GPUs...


Edited by LucShep

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HEH... interesting

 

Watching everything from the Ampere's launch, to FE cards (rumoured to be hand picked examples) "instantly out of stock", AIB higher prices, and now these problems, the part I find funny and sad at same time is how right both Jim from AdoredTV, and the fella from Moore's Law Is Dead, seemed to be well before all this happened.

 

If any of you feels kind of disappointed for not finding any RTX3080 to buy, well... maybe that was a blessing in disguise.

Wait for the new AMD Navi graphics cards, as it could be the case that Nvidia may have handed them the victory in this generation of GPUs...

very interesting... as stated, maybe a blessing in disguise for not getting an initial card.

Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra, i7-9700k (4.9ghz all cores), NH-D15 cooler, 64 GB CL-14 3200mhz RAM, RTX3090FE, Soundblaster Z, Yamaha 5.1 A/V Receiver, 2x 512GB Samsung NVMe, 1x 1TB Samsung NVMe, 2TB Samsung SSD, Win 10 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, JetSeat KW-908, Reverb G2, Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Case, EVGA 850 P2 PSU, PointCTRL, Buttkicker 2 , K-51 Helicopter Collective Control

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