If you dont have TrackIR5

[AH64D]

Looking around the cockpit is pretty important. If you don't have TrackIR 5, then what is a common technique to make the best of looking around?

 

With the F-18C you need to hit L-ALT C to look around, then go back to cockpit interactivity. I know I can use my HOTAS to look around with a HAT button, but that isn't that great. Unless the simple solution is to just practice at it. But it still feels weird, or unatural. And also, if you do have mouse control, it is prety hard to fly and use the mouse to look around at the same time, so there is that catch-22.

 

Is there any tips or techniques people use to look around the cockpit with ease to simulate a TrackIR 5 kind of thing? The mouse is the best solution, but switching between interactivy mode and look mode on the mouse seems not the best way. Unless it is the only way, I don't know.

 

I could have a button on my HOTAS that switches between the two modes and use the nipple on the X-52 (my training HOTAS, eventually all use my TM Warthog).

 

If there is slick and clever way to do this? Or simply what is the best setup, without a fancy TrackIR 5 device?

 

Thanks!

[DevPreach]

You could get a system by Delan engineering the Delanclip system is a decent system but what I have and like is even cheaper. For just over $2 USD if you have an iPhone 10 or newer there is an app called head tracker by JBC consultants that uses the camera on your phone and translate your head movements to your pc and into Easy Tracker. So far it works extremely well for me.

DevPreach

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Darth Holliday]

Looking around the cockpit is pretty important. If you don't have TrackIR 5, then what is a common technique to make the best of looking around?

 

With the F-18C you need to hit L-ALT C to look around, then go back to cockpit interactivity. I know I can use my HOTAS to look around with a HAT button, but that isn't that great. Unless the simple solution is to just practice at it. But it still feels weird, or unatural. And also, if you do have mouse control, it is prety hard to fly and use the mouse to look around at the same time, so there is that catch-22.

 

 

 

 

Is there any tips or techniques people use to look around the cockpit with ease to simulate a TrackIR 5 kind of thing? The mouse is the best solution, but switching between interactivy mode and look mode on the mouse seems not the best way. Unless it is the only way, I don't know.

 

I could have a button on my HOTAS that switches between the two modes and use the nipple on the X-52 (my training HOTAS, eventually all use my TM Warthog).

 

If there is slick and clever way to do this? Or simply what is the best setup, without a fancy TrackIR 5 device?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

I used my trim control on my Warthog Joystick...I prefer it to my Trackir...The trim control I have been experimenting with. I use the weapons select on occasion and put the weapons on the number keyboard 1-2-3-4... I know its easier to turm my head, with my trackIR, but I cant hold my head steady when zooming in...!!

[BuzzU]

I used my trim control on my Warthog Joystick...I prefer it to my Trackir...The trim control I have been experimenting with. I use the weapons select on occasion and put the weapons on the number keyboard 1-2-3-4... I know its easier to turm my head, with my trackIR, but I cant hold my head steady when zooming in...!!

 

You can put a dead zone in Trackir.

[AH64D]

Oh thats cool you have the TrackIR, how is it? I mean is it worth the $160 bucks? I figure its the best solution to this problem. Interesting you prefer the trim control, or your just using a hat switch to look around.

 

I don't quite follow your solution.

 

Thanks for the reply, all advice helps.

[MAXsenna]

Oh thats cool you have the TrackIR, how is it? I mean is it worth the $160 bucks? I figure its the best solution to this problem. Interesting you prefer the trim control, or your just using a hat switch to look around.

 

 

 

I don't quite follow your solution.

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply, all advice helps.

If you don't want to use 160 dollars, like @DevPreach wrote, Delan Engineering has a solution for 45 pounds.

https://delanengineering.com/

 

You must download some free software though. But is really easy lots of YT videos on how to set it up. When setup it works all the sims I have without doing anything. Even that new one.

Cheers!

 

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Darth Holliday]

Yes, its worth the 160.00 bucks..I just like using the trim hat for looking around and down at my systems on the F18.The trim control(s) I moved to the weapons select castle hat. The weapons I moved/use the key board..

 

 

Thanks BuzzU, I tried that and it works well but I always seem to go back to the trim button....

[Ourorborus]

Before I converted to VR, I used Opentrack. It used my existing webcam (with blue and red filter stuck over the top), I then made a small bracket to hold three IR LEDs and 9v battery of the side of my headphones.

 

It worked very well with 6DOF. Initial tuning took some time getting it adjusted but after that the only issue was replacing the 9v every few weeks (or sooner if I forgot to turn it off) I would have changed it to a researchable battery but I found a VR HMD on sale and never looked back.

 

 

Not including the webcam (which I already had) the whole set up cost about $6AUD. :)

[Mike_Romeo]

Oh thats cool you have the TrackIR, how is it? I mean is it worth the $160 bucks?

No. Its hella overpriced. You can have good headtracking for under 10$ if you do it yourself.

I did it myself and i am so happy that i didnt throw 160$ out of the window.

[Boosterdog]

Dont be put off HT-ing by that $160 price tag. As others have already said, pretty much the same (if not sometimes better) experience can be had for a third of the price (including the delan clip which negates the need to wear a stupid hat) or cheaper if you build it yourself.

 

Also dont be put off by comments about jerky head movments and an inabilty to keep zoomed views steady. Camear based HT takes some experimenting with in terms of the camera position and the curves but once you have a nice sweet spot it works very well.

[=4c=Nikola]

I use joystick with left hand, and throttle levers with right. In that config, it's easy to use mouse with right hand as throttle doesn't need constant attention. I've mapped LALT + C and several other significant commands at mouse buttons. It works flawlessly.

[MAXsenna]

I use joystick with left hand, and throttle levers with right. In that config, it's easy to use mouse with right hand as throttle doesn't need constant attention. I've mapped LALT + C and several other significant commands at mouse buttons. It works flawlessly.

No need to map LAlt-C. Double click mouse wheel.

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Adam]

Another option to be aware of - you can pre-program snap views using the numpad keys, so you can instantly snap to a pre-set view you've setup in the cockpit at any time if needed. ;) I think you can use all of the 9 number keys on the keypad - so 9 different custom views you can configure. There's also 'padlock' that allows you to fix on a position or object (plane) outside of the cockpit.

 

As for TrackIR - I've had it for years and loved it. Even with TrackIR I've found the custom snap-views handy. (This can be great for having a full display of one of the DDI's with the buttons for greater resolution and not having to 'lock' my head in to a position for a while and then begging the misses for a neck massage later. :)

 

But with TrackIR - with the current price we can get it for here in Australia, I notice for an extra ~1/2 again - I can get VR, so if I had to buy again, I'd either try out one of the much cheaper alternatives - or put my money towards VR. Obviously YMMV but that's just my take. TrackIR is great for what it is - but given so many other options out there now that have evolved, and the increase in VR - I think it's way overpriced.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Adam

[AH64D]

VR reduces the gaphics signficalantly corect? VR sounded cool, but I read the graphics are not very good. Like even if you have a very powerful graphics card, its all pointless as it gets reduced to a cheap graphics card. I am not down with with that. I know a little off topic.

 

But still curious.

[Massun92]

I have a free solution for you, from the 3rd world... YOu can use Opentrack - with "Aruco" (you have to print a type of very simple QR code) -- in my case I DRAW it (Yeah, I dont have printer) and with your webcam (if you dont have webcam - I have not - you can use your phone and "irium webcam" -- turn your phone in a webcam. So, you can have a free track sistem. (conect the phone via USB not WIFI, for better performance)

Its not very complicate and totally free.. and works... well is not perfect, BUT WORKS!!

[Doum76]

VR reduces the gaphics signficalantly corect? VR sounded cool, but I read the graphics are not very good. Like even if you have a very powerful graphics card, its all pointless as it gets reduced to a cheap graphics card. I am not down with with that. I know a little off topic.

 

But still curious.

 

 

 

 

Hey man!

 

 

Indeed graphics hits a bit in VR, as for personal evolution in DCS, i started with panning around view with my Joystick, then i discovered TrackIR, but decide to go with a homemade solution (talking quite a while ago, around 2009 or so) bought a Microsot webcam for about less than $20, took out the IR filter in it, bought some IR LEDs, wire, capacitor, then made my own headtracking clip using the « FreeTrack » software, the traking experience brought my sim experience up quite a notch.

 

 

 

Used it for a while, but decided to give a try to the real TrackIR, the difference was pretty decent, a nice upgrade experience, then a while after, i decider to leave the basebal cap clip fort he TrackIR, and decided to grab the TrackClip Pro, then the quality went up quite a lot, loved the upgrade.

 

 

Finaly, 2 years ago or so, i decided to give a go to the Oculus Rift, which i tried at a friend, then the experience went up i'd say, 200%. The lost of graphics for the feeling of looking around and see stuff, when you have aplane on your back and need to look behind, you really need to look behind, not just turn your head 2 degrees on your chair and it translate into 180 degrees in game.

 

 

Leaving my office walls to look down in the cockpit and see myself as a pilot, the feeling going up around and trough a nice white cloud, the feeling when you're a few feets away at the KC-135's ass to refuel, the feeling you first get there with the feeling of the impressive size of the tanker, or when you'Re on the carrier deck, and taxi near the tower and have to look up to actualy see the top of it and having the height feeling (not too mention the thrill now with the SuperCarrier deck crew), yess quality is a bit worst, but to be honest i never really found the onscreen sim looking too real, it's too sharp, too saturated, yes i got good graphics, when i raise my eyes up a bit and see my window with the broken blinds, it totaly take away the immersion. Just the thrill of pressin CTRL-E and eject and parachute. You eitehr have the choice to have massive graphics but feel like sitting on a deck in an office looking at a screen, or having less good graphics but really have the feeling you're flying, personaly, i fly sims for what i couldn't go in real life, so i rather feel like i'm flaying than having the feeling i'm having bionic eyes and see everything in perfect definition with hyper saturated colors.

 

 

To be honest on my side, no head tracker to begin with, TrackIR then finaly VR, where all 3 different experience in the sim, as much as MS FS 2020 looks awesome, reason why i'm holding back is the fact it ain't VR yet, and i just don'T wanna fly without VR anymore, even though graphics kick asses. Of course some gauges are hard to read, but the aicraft i mainly fly are the Hornet and Viper, which most stuff are on the HUD, but with VR Zoom, problem solve.

 

 

Again, that is my personal taste, i always got into expensive hobby, so for me the hundreed trackir wasn't a problem, the money i soent when i was in large R/C Helicopter has nothing to do with the price DCS made me spent.

 

 

Just felt sharing you my experience from all levels, hoping you'll find what suits you better and gives you a kick. :pilotfly:

Edited August 30, 2020 by Doum76

[SharpeXB]

Oh thats cool you have the TrackIR, how is it? I mean is it worth the $160 bucks?

Yes. It’s the best peripheral ever made for flight sims. And the money, for my own preference is vastly worth the quality and not having to deal with DIY. It’s rather impossible to play the sim well relying on keys for simply looking around and then losing real HOTAS commands for them. And 6DOF is more than just turning your head but the ability to look and lean around obstructions etc.

Without head tracking flight simulation just wouldn’t be fun at all, it would be awkward and frustrating.

Try it, you’ll wonder how you ever lived without it.

Edited August 30, 2020 by SharpeXB

[...]

I'm going to be direct. If you just want to fly, you can do it without TrackIR. But if you want to be competitive, you need it. You're not always going to knock down a contact at 12. When the two merge, whoever has TrackIR will have the advantage.

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I have a free solution for you, from the 3rd world... YOu can use Opentrack - with "Aruco" (you have to print a type of very simple QR code) -- in my case I DRAW it (Yeah, I dont have printer) and with your webcam (if you dont have webcam - I have not - you can use your phone and "irium webcam" -- turn your phone in a webcam. So, you can have a free track sistem. (conect the phone via USB not WIFI, for better performance)

Its not very complicate and totally free.. and works... well is not perfect, BUT WORKS!!

 

 

Yes and to add, you can try FaceTrackNoIR ( http://www.facetracknoir.nl/ ). Tracks your face only, you'll need a cam of course and your face has to be well lit. That said, TrackIR is very overpriced but it works well if you set it up properly.

[DrDetroit]

Yes. It’s the best peripheral ever made for flight sims. And the money, for my own preference is vastly worth the quality and not having to deal with DIY. It’s rather impossible to play the sim well relying on keys for simply looking around and then losing real HOTAS commands for them. And 6DOF is more than just turning your head but the ability to look and lean around obstructions etc.

Without head tracking flight simulation just wouldn’t be fun at all, it would be awkward and frustrating.

Try it, you’ll wonder how you ever lived without it.

 

^^This right here! Well worth the money, and get the pro-clip if you can. I have both the pro-clip and hat clip; the hat clip is ok, but not as precise as the pro-clip for headphones. The interface in fantastic and once you get the curves properly set it's so natural to look around.

 

Good luck!

DrDetroit

Edited August 30, 2020 by DrDetroit

[Fri13]

If leaving a side that "what brand/combo is better than official TrackIR" then there are little options.

 

From best to worst order:

 

1) VR

15) TrackIR (any head tracking)

16) Viewpoint controls

17) PC mouse

19) Joystick Hat to look around.

20) Nothing.

 

If we leave the head tracking systems out (and no, TrackIR is not overpriced etc, it is solid, least problematic and very nice amount of configuration possibilities) then the best bet is use a view points for various modes. All the numpad buttons from 0 to 9 are possible be used to configure a premade position for camera, its FOV and so on. You can combine them with the external view modes (typical are F1-F12 with combos of Alt, Ctrl and Shift keys) that allows you to have other various views for situational awareness.

 

So, you can bind your hat to have multiple views that you have stored. Like have a camera moved around the cockpit (IIRC Ctrl+Numpad arrows and * as / for zooming) and then store them for their position (AltGr + LCtrl + Num0). Now you can bind all those to your hat directions, so you can quickly jump to different views inside cockpit without any head movements and such.

 

Before TrackIR I used that method, it was superior to any mouse or hat camera viewing direction methods as you got quickly to proper camera position. Then add a one or two hat directions for a automatic target tracking camera, meaning your view will be locked to your target and it keeps it centered. This is important in the dog fight phase, but problem is that at some positions when you look straight through the canopy, you will lose your bearings that on what direction you are looking really, especially in fighters like F-16 where there is no visual indicators.

 

As well binding a ground stabilized tracking was very great, you could lock view to point on ground so you had easy time to circle around battlefield and observe what was happening.

Then just press a hat to one direction and you were back to cockpit in normal view.

 

If flying just with the joystick + keyboard, then mouse will not be a such problem to look around, but in heat of combat and requirement to operate cockpit etc, I prefer(red) saved camera positions.

 

One can be creative with the cameras, but problem comes in multiplayer where server might not allow them as many of them are considered as cheats. But same way a TrackIR is a cheat as one can so easily look around without G effects pulling their head on the headrest and denying capability to move their heads or look their six (similar is with the VR, but at least one needs to physically turn their heads and likely shift their bodies weight to get the view).

 

Sometimes I fly old -96 game "Hind" and "Apache" and oh boy do I dislike the camera controls there were you need to use a hat to look left/right or so. I would gladly pay for a small fee for TrackIR capability (even more for a VR!).

 

One thing that TrackIR users do not use is the curves. This is where the official TrackIR makes it easy as you can get easily done own curves and deadzones, so when you example move head at specific position, it will "snap-on" there and stay there further time with better accuracy, so you do not need to be careful with your head movement. So you can have nice positions for looking a display or specific part in cockpit so view is stable and nice, but then have good tracking when looking outside and around.

 

TrackIR allows as well to combine camera positions as well the head tracking, so you can have example camera jump on lower in cockpit so you can make easier controls as your head doesn't need to be in the pilot head position like in VR.

 

So if you do not have TrackIR, camera positions and padlock are way to go.

[randomTOTEN]

The mouse is the best solution, but switching between interactivy mode and look mode on the mouse seems not the best way. Unless it is the only way, I don't know.

 

 

Check this out:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1267371&postcount=7

 

 

Originally Posted by Alex O'Kean

option is always available in the

Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\Cockpit\clickable_common.lua

 

just set

 

use_click_and_pan_mode = true

 

 

It should still work. Might be a problem with MP servers though. Haven't used it since I got my TrackIR, but it used to work great.

[AH64D]

Yeah from what I am reading, seems like I just need to buy the TrackIR5. I want it anyway, just don't really have the money. But all get it. I am still in training, I have a ways to go before I become a fighter pilot in DCS.

 

But I am not intersted in make shift DIY weirdenss. I guess all just use my controls the best I can. But I am glad to hear the TRACKIR5 is awesome. I look forward to buying it eventually.

 

Thanks for all the replies! Love DCS Cheers.

[MAXsenna]

Yeah from what I am reading, seems like I just need to buy the TrackIR5. I want it anyway, just don't really have the money. But all get it. I am still in training, I have a ways to go before I become a fighter pilot in DCS.

 

 

 

But I am not intersted in make shift DIY weirdenss. I guess all just use my controls the best I can. But I am glad to hear the TRACKIR5 is awesome. I look forward to buying it eventually.

 

 

 

Thanks for all the replies! Love DCS Cheers.

 

Hey! I sent you the link above. If USD 160, is too much. 45 quids might be another option, and it's NOT a DIY by any means!

Cheers!

 

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk

[AH64D]

Originally Posted by Alex O'Kean

option is always available in the

Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\Cockpit\clickable_common.lua

 

just set

 

use_click_and_pan_mode = true

 

What does this do exactly? Make the HAt more like mouse control?