Jump to content

Checking interest on DCS: IADS (Integrated Air Defense Network)


Checking interest on DCS: IADS (Integrated Air Defense Network)  

1018 members have voted

  1. 1. Checking interest on DCS: IADS (Integrated Air Defense Network)



Recommended Posts

Dear all,

 

We have been approached by a new 3rd Party, a radar technology company, who would like to gauge the interest in a DLC to allow you to build, command and manage an Integrated Air Defense Network.

 

Features considered right now would be the following:

 

  • Real-world limits: delays in communications, ambiguous radar contacts, level of training, fatigue
  • Build the IADS network in the Mission Editor
  • Automatic or pre-set reactions to threats and air attacks
  • Rules of Engagement, No-Fire sectors
  • Logistic component (ammunition replenishment) management
  • Ability to fight against the IADS or command it (like the Combined Arms)
  • Monitor the network and Issue commands in real-time via a dedicated interface
  • Act as a General commanding the Air Defence in whole or commander of a specific military unit (platoon, battery, battalion, regiment)

 

* Please note the features are not final and subject to change.

 

The purpose of this poll right now is simply to see if people would be interested in a paid DLC/module for something such as this.

 

Yes = Yes I would be interested in paying for such a module/DLC

No = I have no interest in paying for such a module/DLC

 

Thanks!

The ED Team

 

________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Added Feedback from the Team today August 28th:

We will have an internal discussion about this topic next week but for now, some things I can tell right away:

 

· There would have to be some DCS Core functionality to integrate our module seamlessly. My idea was to go the same way as the Supercarrier module.

 

  • IADS network could be auto-generated by just pressing the button in the Mission Editor (pre-defined or user-defined rules) – this would be available to everybody.
     
  • The ability to build the network would be part of the DCS, as well as necessary functional links.
     
  • Everybody would be able to build and fight the IADS, but only the module owners could run the Command & Control Interface and interact with it. In other words:
    • everybody will be able to generate or build it
       
    • everybody will be able to see it
       
    • everybody will be able to suppress or destroy it
       
    • only the module owner will be able to issue commands and control the network and the units.

 

· Basics of Electronic Warfare – different types of jamming and its effects (simulation). Given the overwhelming complexity of the topic, we are considering to do it as a separate module. More info will follow.

 

· We will not simulate the individual SAM systems or units – not enough publicly available information (besides, it would be incredibly boring, by our opinion). Our idea is to simulate an Air Defense system as a whole.

 

yes but not at 80 bucks or 40. this would be a 20-30 dollar thing tops for me

I mean look at the user made syria IADS - its HUGE and free...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 359
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

bump, would too love to hear if there have been decisions made or any progress @NineLine. Still really interested in this. Could also been linked in some way with Battlefield Productions maybe 😉

Dear all,   We have been approached by a new 3rd Party, a radar technology company, who would like to gauge the interest in a DLC to allow you to build, command and manage an Integrated Air Defense N

Super interested!     I’m feeding my baby after she woke up again for the billionth time tonight, I’m half zombie with  insomnia, yet even in this wretched state I still become excited enough t

  • Everybody would be able to build and fight the IADS, but only the module owners could run the Command & Control Interface and interact with it. In other words:
    • everybody will be able to generate or build it
       
    • everybody will be able to see it
       
    • everybody will be able to suppress or destroy it
       
    • only the module owner will be able to issue commands and control the network and the units.

 

just to make sure people see this, it will not need to be purchased to join a server using it, there are no negatives from not buying it (as far as I can tell from what has been posted so far), only positives if you buy it.


Edited by Matti0503
Link to post
Share on other sites
quoting for clarity,

 

this is what we know so far, you are not loosing anything in DCS, you would only be gaining based on this overview

 

Thanks

 

Thanks Nineline, sounds great honestly.

 

Please, don't drop the possibility of working with a real radar company as it would be dumb no matter what the community says. Just try not to split the multiplayer community but a project of this level will cost its money and I completely understand that has to be charged. Also with all due respect, I don't think that ED by themselves have the possibility of gathering the information and knowledge that this radar company has without partnering up with them.

 

People asking that ED has to do it and integrate it in CA are asking for the Moon.

i7 7700K @ 4,8 Ghz | Corsair Vengeance 2x16 gb @ 3200 Mhz | EVGA RTX 2080 XC ULTRA | Acer XB271HU 1440P 144HZ | Virpil T-50 CM throttle | Virpil WarBRD Base + MongoosT-50 CM2 Grip | MFG Crosswind | TrackIR 5

Bf 109 K-4 | Fw 190 A-8 | Spitfire LF Mk. IX | P-51D | Fw 190 D-9 | P-47D | F/A 18C | F-14 A/B | F-16C | MiG-15bis | MiG-21bis | M-2000C | A-10C | AJS-37 Viggen | UH-1H | Ka-50 | C-101 | Flaming Cliffs 3

Caucasus | Persian Gulf | Nevada | Normandy | The Channel | Syria

Link to post
Share on other sites
Please see the OP, and here. The team has been watching and wanted to add some additional feedback:

 

We will have an internal discussion about this topic next week but for now, some things I can tell right away:

 

· There would have to be some DCS Core functionality to integrate our module seamlessly. My idea was to go the same way as the Supercarrier module.

 

o IADS network could be auto-generated by just pressing the button in the Mission Editor (pre-defined or user-defined rules) – this would be available to everybody.

 

o The ability to build the network would be part of the DCS, as well as necessary functional links.

 

o Everybody would be able to build and fight the IADS, but only the module owners could run the Command & Control Interface and interact with it. In other words:

 

§ everybody will be able to generate or build it

 

§ everybody will be able to see it

 

§ everybody will be able to suppress or destroy it

 

§ only the module owner will be able to issue commands and control the network and the units.

 

· Basics of Electronic Warfare – different types of jamming and its effects (simulation). Given the overwhelming complexity of the topic, we are considering to do it as a separate module. More info will follow.

 

· We will not simulate the individual SAM systems or units – not enough publicly available information (besides, it would be incredibly boring, by our opinion). Our idea is to simulate an Air Defense system as a whole.

 

This looks quite sensible :thumbup:, and I can vote yes now.

 

Wow... I've just found something NineLine posted to be agreeable, 2020 truly is a strange year :P

 

EDIT: Well, except the "Basics of Electronic Warfare – different types of jamming and its effects (simulation). Given the overwhelming complexity of the topic, we are considering to do it as a separate module. More info will follow." Part. This is just no-bueno, regardless of the complexity or the cost of it, which I understand both, this is something CORE, full stop. I'd be willing to take part in an optional subscription with benefits to finance this for everyone, but having such a CORE feature behind a paywall is just no-go in my eyes.


Edited by WinterH

Modules:

MiG-21Bis, Fw-190D, Bf-109K, P-51D, F-86F, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Hawk T1A, C-101, FC3, A-10C, CA, Mirage 2000C, Gazelle, L-39, MiG-15Bis, F-5E, AJS 37 Viggen, Yak-52, Christen Eagle II, MiG-19, I-16, JF-17, F-14, F/A-18C, Fw-190A8, AV-8B/NA, Spitifre IX

 

Mods:

A-4E, MB-339, Edge 540

 

Utility modules:

Combined Arms, NS 430 GPS

Link to post
Share on other sites
...This is just no-bueno, regardless of the complexity or the cost of it, which I understand both, this is something CORE, full stop. I'd be willing to take part in an optional subscription with benefits to finance this for everyone, but having such a CORE feature behind a paywall is just no-go in my eyes.

 

The fact of the matter is that ED needs to fund development of complex items somehow, I don't think it's fair for any developer doing this to work for free, especially given how much and the nature of the work required.

 

It's also not the first time something has put EW behind a paywall (*cough* ArmA 3: Contact *cough* - and that was pretty basic and wasn't really a platform upgrade).


Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, F-16CM, AJS-37, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, P-47D, P-51D, FC3, MiG-15bis, Yak-52, CA, C-101, Hawk

Terrains I own: Syria, The Channel, SoH

 

System (RIP my old PC): Dell XPS 15 9570 w/ Intel i7-8750H, NVIDIA GTX 1050Ti Max-Q, 16GB DDR4, 500GB Samsung PM871 SSD (upgraded with 1TB Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD)

 

VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro

 

Dreams: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/mBG4dD

Link to post
Share on other sites

As you may have read in my message, I do get that,nor do I think it needs to developed for free. And yet it doesn't change my stance on it. I do think that ED needs to consider some way to make core development more affordable. But that is quite off topic, so I won't go there here.

 

The fact of the matter is, unlike the likes of Supercarrier and (arguably) WWII units, EW simulation is not optional, and is very much core to the simulating a digital battlefield.

Modules:

MiG-21Bis, Fw-190D, Bf-109K, P-51D, F-86F, Ka-50, UH-1H, Mi-8MTV2, Hawk T1A, C-101, FC3, A-10C, CA, Mirage 2000C, Gazelle, L-39, MiG-15Bis, F-5E, AJS 37 Viggen, Yak-52, Christen Eagle II, MiG-19, I-16, JF-17, F-14, F/A-18C, Fw-190A8, AV-8B/NA, Spitifre IX

 

Mods:

A-4E, MB-339, Edge 540

 

Utility modules:

Combined Arms, NS 430 GPS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the EW thing definitely needs clarification however this case would be ideal, as already mentioned by someone else I believe:

 

A special EW module (as in EA-6 or maybe an EF-111 etc.) would be made and the generally more complicated EW simulation then gets transferred over to the other modules that can use jammers or have built-in jammers.

This idea is, in principle, pretty similar to what's being proposed with the IADS right now since all players benefit from the module itself, even without owning it, but only the owners are allowed to actually operate it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I voted no. IADS can already be well simulated with lua, and speculating how non-IADS owners would not be able to participate in a mission without said module seems.. nickel and dime.

 

New planes, maps, campaigns, or assets like a super carrier sure. Dynamic campaign similar to the industry standard, you bet! IADS module, no thanks.

You clearly didn't read the posts from 9Line, anyone can join the missions and anyone can make an IADS system, the payed part is just being able to do C2 like with Combined Arms.... This would be a great and take some workload of ED

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes.

Hard yes.

Just take my money.

I'll pre-order it now.

Just name a price.

Windows 10 64bit

Intel i7 9700K

Corsair H80i v2 Hydro Cooler

EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti XC Ultra

32GB RAM

ASUS Z390 Maximus XI

Samsung 970 EVO 1tb NVMe Solid State Drive

EVGA Gold 1000w

HTC Vive Pro VR

Link to post
Share on other sites

IADS should be of the base game. I'll buy it, but I woild suggest adding at least one high fidelity 3d cockpit vr capable Sam system to play as no matter how boring you think it may be. It will allow people to pay for it while feeling they're getting a good value. Maybe an Sa-8 or Sa-13? I don't know what's declassified enough to do but people would live griefing F-18s with it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dear all,

 

We have been approached by a new 3rd Party, a radar technology company, who would like to gauge the interest in a DLC to allow you to build, command and manage an Integrated Air Defense Network.

 

Features considered right now would be the following:

 

  • Real-world limits: delays in communications, ambiguous radar contacts, level of training, fatigue
  • Build the IADS network in the Mission Editor
  • Automatic or pre-set reactions to threats and air attacks
  • Rules of Engagement, No-Fire sectors
  • Logistic component (ammunition replenishment) management
  • Ability to fight against the IADS or command it (like the Combined Arms)
  • Monitor the network and Issue commands in real-time via a dedicated interface
  • Act as a General commanding the Air Defence in whole or commander of a specific military unit (platoon, battery, battalion, regiment)

 

* Please note the features are not final and subject to change.

 

The purpose of this poll right now is simply to see if people would be interested in a paid DLC/module for something such as this.

 

Yes = Yes I would be interested in paying for such a module/DLC

No = I have no interest in paying for such a module/DLC

 

Thanks!

The ED Team

 

________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Added Feedback from the Team today August 28th:

We will have an internal discussion about this topic next week but for now, some things I can tell right away:

 

· There would have to be some DCS Core functionality to integrate our module seamlessly. My idea was to go the same way as the Supercarrier module.

 

  • IADS network could be auto-generated by just pressing the button in the Mission Editor (pre-defined or user-defined rules) – this would be available to everybody.
  • The ability to build the network would be part of the DCS, as well as necessary functional links.
  • Everybody would be able to build and fight the IADS, but only the module owners could run the Command & Control Interface and interact with it. In other words:
    • everybody will be able to generate or build it
    • everybody will be able to see it
    • everybody will be able to suppress or destroy it
    • only the module owner will be able to issue commands and control the network and the units.

     

 

· Basics of Electronic Warfare – different types of jamming and its effects (simulation). Given the overwhelming complexity of the topic, we are considering to do it as a separate module. More info will follow.

 

· We will not simulate the individual SAM systems or units – not enough publicly available information (besides, it would be incredibly boring, by our opinion). Our idea is to simulate an Air Defense system as a whole.

 

 

BTW I'm boring! because I like to be on top of AA battery (full fidelity one) so you know. but aside from that I'm ready to put a 100$ to be wired right now if you do what you mentioned above to be based on ray tracing RADAR simulation! I'm sure many people want to do have that as well.

 

 

If you are going to make that module based on the current faking RADAR No thanks I will not buy it.

 

 

 

See below please:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=248017

http://www.dennishancock.com/raytracing/index.html

edit https://www.ara.com/projects/matrix-solvers-enable-real-world-radar-signature-predictions

 

OMG to be the Operator of EWR based on RAY TRACING RADAR SIMULATION I will buy that for 200$ edit: OMG if this is also combined with Realistic Radio COM just WOW!


Edited by Murey2
Link to post
Share on other sites
That is something ED should change. Add a true "Fog of War" where no one knows everything than their own vehicle(and that only by their own means of navigation).

 

So if a radar scans a sky 6 RPM, it is one update per 10 seconds. That would mean someone has limited capabilities to follow someone in tight maneuvers.

 

If we add proper radar functions, we would start to see a radar contacts blinking and disappear here and then at various conditions. Add there ECM and chaff, and we start to get serious trouble to have anything visible or tracked as we get false returns, multiple returns, ranges going crazy etc.

 

And adding multiple radars active, should just improve the picture as one would need to connect all together. It means different ways to link radars and communications so one can get at least a picture what is happening as one should even be required listen radio where AI tells the target position and then player use own pen to mark on map the position as heard over radio.

 

No more magical F10 map with perfect information what unit, what type, what side, where and how.

 

More requirements to have a flight plans for everyone in multiplayer as you will get shot down if not following procedures etc.

 

 

I agree but it should be part of upgrading the RADAR core feature to Ray tracing or even something better.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree but it should be part of upgrading the RADAR core feature to Ray tracing or even something better.

 

No matter how you call it it's naive to think it'll get you anywhere near the real world radar simulation. There are things like sidelobes, imperfect radar antennas and wave propagation that makes waves bent, reflect and diffuse... Anyway there's no actual rays in raytracing - these are only calculations - same as there are now. You can only do so much of them and still keep the sim playable. I'm all for better simulation in every aspects so I wouldn't welcome 90% of computing power go into radar alone.

G4560@3,5GHz/DDR4-16GB/GTX970-4GB/SATA3-SSD, Win7-64, 27"LCD-FullHD, T16000M HOTAS, customTiR

Aircraft: FC3, F-14B / Supercarrier / Maps: NTTR, PG

Link to post
Share on other sites
No matter how you call it it's naive to think it'll get you anywhere near the real world radar simulation. There are things like sidelobes, imperfect radar antennas and wave propagation that makes waves bent, reflect and diffuse... Anyway there's no actual rays in raytracing - these are only calculations - same as there are now. You can only do so much of them and still keep the sim playable. I'm all for better simulation in every aspects so I wouldn't welcome 90% of computing power go into radar alone.

 

 

OMG! Well thanks for clearing for me that not only ED seems to be living in the 90s but also people like you among the community!

 

 

have you heard of RTX 2080 and now the RTX 3080/90 and we are still waiting for AMDs stuff and that is for the GPU side on CPU's side have you heard of multicore CPUs?

 

 

Wake up dear it's the end of 2020!

Link to post
Share on other sites
OMG! Well thanks for clearing for me that not only ED seems to be living in the 90s but also people like you among the community!

 

 

have you heard of RTX 2080 and now the RTX 3080/90 and we are still waiting for AMDs stuff and that is for the GPU side on CPU's side have you heard of multicore CPUs?

 

 

Wake up dear it's the end of 2020!

 

 

Yeah, and that's why modern flight sims use real-time CFD for their flight models instead of detailed, researched data tables...

Oh wait...

No, as long as the data tables have correct numbers the end result (=a believable sim experience) is better than trying to actually simulate (as in mathematically model) the real world, and failing.

Ryzen 3600X - RTX 2080 - 32 GB Ram - DCS on SSD.

DCS Modules : M2K-C, F18-C, FW-190D, Huey, Gazelle, Black Shark, Mig-15, all maps.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be willing to pay for such a module as it has a promise to fund improvement on the areas mentioned, and improve it for all users.

It's a good idea when a good part of the community is willing to invest in further improvement on the core platform.

 

Better still, ED is willing to align the goals with the community for whats practical for ED and desired by the community. Of course, not always all the goals can be met (for practical reasons) but it's a significant improvement if you do deliver on this.

 

I like this new ED.

 

Go for it!

The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it's open | The important thing is not to stop questioning

Link to post
Share on other sites
OMG! Well thanks for clearing for me that not only ED seems to be living in the 90s but also people like you among the community!

 

 

have you heard of RTX 2080 and now the RTX 3080/90 and we are still waiting for AMDs stuff and that is for the GPU side on CPU's side have you heard of multicore CPUs?

 

 

Wake up dear it's the end of 2020!

 

RIP performance of anyone that doesn't have an RTX card

Link to post
Share on other sites

Voted NO.

 

Since November 2016, I've averaged $29.72 a month for modules and asset packs. This number will surely rise as modules come out at a faster and faster pace. Add onto that the expense of peripherals I've spent money on to make the game more enjoyable (another $1500-2000), and I start scratching my head wondering what I'm doing.

 

If ED wants continue to charge for things that I believe should be part of the CORE, then it's time for me to reconsider my future with ED.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To add to the small conversation above, if data tables are refined enough and validated for all cases, the end result is 99% the same as running a calculation, so this is a good way to limit the amount of background calculations. I simulate things for a living and although I'm a sucker for probabilistic simulations that run on hundreds of cores, terabytes of RAM and take days to finish, I recognize that if the data is already available, there's no need for that.

 

Also, on another note, if ED decides to add RT features in DCS, by the time they actually add them, everyone should own an RT-capable GPU, either from NVIDIA or AMD.

The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord.

1197644828_Screen_200911_044202-Copy.png.74d8c09ee9060cffd7408a75ab2c13ef.png

Z370 Aorus Gaming 7, i7-8700K, 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra, 32GB DDR4, 960 Pro, 970 Evo Plus, WD Gold 6TB, Seasonic Prime Platinum

F/A-18C, AV-8B, JF-17, A-10C (C II), M-2000C, F-16C, F-14, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3

Link to post
Share on other sites
My pre-assembled PC does not support a GPU higher than GTX-1070 8GB, due to its adapted power supply and motherboard. Upgrading it would involve an investment of more than $ 1,500 and changing the PC completely. I suppose no one would miss me, but that would be my end at DCS and also that of many people who cannot or want to make an investment of this level. I don't claim to be with a GTX 1060 GPU and 16GB of RAM forever, but when DCS drops below 50 FPS I'll say see you later.
That's why I emphasized the fact that if ED adds any sort of RT support, it's not coming for at least 2-3 years, probably more.

I'm not talking only thinking about me. I'm lucky to have a pretty good system, but most of the people I play with don't have that. And even for me, it's a relatively recent thing. But after a point, an upgrade of sorts is going to become necessary for anyone, simply to keep up with the evolving nature of DCS, even if it doesn't include RT. Think DCS 1.5 -> 2.5 or 2.5.5 ->2.5.6. I think it's reasonable to assume that by the time DCS reaches the point of adding RT, RT-capable cards are going to be commonplace.

Given how long such things take, I'm advocating for it now, in order to have it in 5 years. It's a shame to have hardware we're not using.

The vCVW-17 is looking for Hornet and Tomcat pilots and RIOs. Join the vCVW-17 Discord.

1197644828_Screen_200911_044202-Copy.png.74d8c09ee9060cffd7408a75ab2c13ef.png

Z370 Aorus Gaming 7, i7-8700K, 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra, 32GB DDR4, 960 Pro, 970 Evo Plus, WD Gold 6TB, Seasonic Prime Platinum

F/A-18C, AV-8B, JF-17, A-10C (C II), M-2000C, F-16C, F-14, BS2, UH-1H, P-51D, Sptifire, FC3

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that should be a core game feature. Pretty soon if you want clouds or a damage model we have to pay for it. Eventually no one can play together or have a inferior experience unless you have invested hundreds of dollars if not more. Modules such as planes, helicopters, terrain is one thing but having to pay for something that should be included is stupid. We pay enough and give enough for all of the modules. Plus hardly anything is completed anyways. Rather then milking the community just finish what has been started and enhance the core game for us that have already heavily invested. New players that want to start in DCS have to heavily invest in the sim. It isn't like they can pickup one module and fly with friends. Often you have to buy several modules, I.E. the WW2 scenario. Unless you think flying around nuclear reactors in the Caucasus with modern tech on the airfields is immersive. Just my two and half cents.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...