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Targeting pod not updating JDAM co-ordinates after designating in TOO mode?


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Here is another "issue". May be realistic, maybe not. I am not a real fighter pilot, but I play one on my computer.

Sometimes I load 8 JDAMs/JSOWs and pre-plan targets for 4, on say STA 2 and 8. After releasing on PP targets, in order to use TOO for the remaining weapons, STA 3 and 7, one must deselect the weapon on STORES page OSB 6, reselect STORES, reselect the weapon OSB 6, set fuzing, set the stations for TOO mode, etc. Otherwise the STA 3 and 7 weapons will not release on a designated target.

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I didn't bother with targets and stuff but I set STA2/8 PP and 3/7 TOO all release manual and I pressed the button 6 times and 6 JDAMs fell off. The STA8 PP station was selected and released first.

 

 

Interesting. My experience is consistent through many missions. Must be some differences in our procedures. I normally set 4 PP targets, then use TGP to designate for the 4 TOO's.

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  • 2 months later...

I think a problem (for me too when i was learning the process) is that we like to keep the targeting pod looking at the target to see if the bombs hit. If the pilot forgets they will end up overwriting the information from the first designation. Something i started doing is using the SA page on the bottom screen and tgp on the right for initially setting up a Markpoint in the target “area” aka my bomb damage assessment snap view for my tgp. Then go thru the process of designating and stepping as has been described before and once you are done with the last one and you undesignate i replace the tgp and SA pages with the EW and HSI (personal preference). I also turn off the SEQ on the hsi so that i can cycle to my newly created markpoint. After dropping the ordnance and turning away to a safe heading while not masking the tgp i set the right mfd to tgp again and wep designate the markpoint and the tgp snaps the to target area to watch the show. 
 

im reviving this thread not because im having trouble with the process of setting jdam/jsow’s up, but ive been having problems hitting things for some reason. Im wondering if you guys are seeing some of the things im seeing. 
 

ive dropped jsows only to have them explode approx 200-300’ left of target from direction of run-in. Ive had jdams and sows fly long as well. I dont have a track to upload but im just curious if anyone else has had problems accurately dropping ordnance in TOO using the tgp? Ive noticed on my tgp, that the coordinates are different between the tgp and the jdam/jsow MSN page (in precise coords mode) and the tgp auto designates the elevation in meters instead of feet. I dont know if i missed something in the setup. I know in the a10 you can use the laser to make a more accurate “spi” or target designation. Can you use the TRIG on the tgp to lase while you tdc depress to get a more accurate designation?

 

Thanks in advance 🙂

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+2 but it's not consistent.

JDAMs are no problem

but I have same problems with JSOW 

 and I believe it to be a known issue in MPP

 

one run 4/4 on target

the next they'd bank up sharply and crash

 

I posted this last night mistakenly in the 2.5 forum 

but it seems relevant to Striders point

 

using Mark points for each of the 8 targets let me just cycle through 

drop and watch show.  

 

----------------------------------------------

 

so I practice, understand and am able to use TOO mode and TOO1 and TOO2 across stations

to program and drop ordnance on multiple targets

 

but it really is a cumbersome 

PITA procedure

that does not take much to screw up

either in setting up or in release.

 

especially in MP server when I'm half expecting

an Aim 120 or 154 to go through my cockpit glass when I least expect it

 

It occurred to me that it should be (and is) possible

to just create the 8 different Mark Points with the TPod

 

spot it, select it, mark it

do the next one

repeat

 

retreat and set up a safe run 

select MP1, WPDSG

Bombs away

 

select MP2, repeat

and so on.

 

just as quick and seems to be a hell of a lot easier.

 

anyone else try this?

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3 hours ago, Drac said:

No lazing required.

JSOWs and Gbu-38 are both gps guided

 

I’m sure you could mark your target, lock it, lase it, kill it and shift to next target just as easily though. 
 

I like to use the cluster JSOWs fire them as far away as I can.  Then shift to the bombs that range around 10 miles or so. 
 

can wipe out a bunch of closely packed targets and pick off the outliers 

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5 hours ago, johnmjones1975 said:

JSOWs and Gbu-38 are both gps guided

I don’t mean, “while using them”. I mean, using the laser when making a designation, as an aid for an accurate setup prior to engagement. Sorry for any confusion there. 
 

When the pilot designates a target, especially at lower altitude, the angle causes the point to be made beyond the target if the designation cue is placed centered on the object. Which is why it is usually good practice to place the cue at the very base of the thing you want to designate. 
 

Which is where the laser comes in. In the a10, you can fire the laser while designating a target to get more accurate ranging and placement of the object you want to hit. 
 

So, I was wondering since I havent seen it anywhere either on YT tutorials nor in any reading material, if this was a feature of the Hornet’s tgp to make more accurate “laser-ranging” designations using either the default designation mode or area track (since point track is specific to a contrasting image). 
 

thanks for the feedback so far. I was getting frustrated sometimes thinking i was doing something very wrong to have my jdams/jsows missing sometimes like they do. 

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the Tpod automatically updates coordinates as you slew it

Laser as far as I know it is just for weapon guidance 

(or marking for a wingman, but I fly alone, don't know how to find wingmen)

 

and you're absolutely correct that at lower altitudes

the angle can cause it to be off just a little

 

I find this when say there's a cloud layer at 7k you have to stay below to find targets 

then go up and make my run

 

using the cluster JSOW's its 'close enough' that the bomblets take care of the error

if they're working

 

I probably should employ a 'best practice' of getting a point track on a target 

to ensure it has "it" and doesn't have that slant error 

 

but even a miss is sometimes close enough depending on target,

i missed a truck last night and it went off between

 ended up getting 2 for price of 1

 

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6 hours ago, johnmjones1975 said:

I probably should employ a 'best practice' of getting a point track on a target 

to ensure it has "it" and doesn't have that slant error  

 

I will try exactly this next time and see how it turns out. 
 

the other thing id like to try is to get an area track in the middle of a group of targets in close proximity and use the offset cursor to designate and then step to the next station to see if the coords change when i tdc depress again and continue stepping thru using the offset cursor. 

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6 hours ago, johnmjones1975 said:

the Tpod automatically updates coordinates as you slew it

Laser as far as I know it is just for weapon guidance 

(or marking for a wingman, but I fly alone, don't know how to find wingmen)

 

Laser is also for rangefinding. Every laser targeting pod has a receiver for its own laser beam, even those without the LST capability (like LANTIRN). It's good practice to use that feature when targeting. Otherwise, your pod only relies on ecartometers to know the target's location as an offset of yours, which is not optimal.

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7 hours ago, *Aquila* said:

Laser is also for rangefinding. Every laser targeting pod has a receiver for its own laser beam, even those without the LST capability (like LANTIRN). It's good practice to use that feature when targeting. Otherwise, your pod only relies on ecartometers to know the target's location as an offset of yours, which is not optimal.

The question is, does it work currently with the DCS FA-18C? Like I said before, I haven’t come across any tutorials or written guides mentioning this yet. And it would become almost standard practice for people when designating from lower altitudes/angles.

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thank you Aquila,

 

I said I 'as far as i know' assuming i could be wrong 

and someone knew better

 

I too have not seen this referenced before

just re read the section of chucks guides and it does indicate to TDC depress to designate the target in the procedure and that's when the range appears 

 

It does get confusing where this has changed so many times over the past 12 months.

Capture.PNG

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20 hours ago, Strider said:

The question is, does it work currently with the DCS FA-18C?

That, for sure, is the question. I haven't bombed with the Hornet for a while and I'm far from home and my sim station. But one should get the answer to the question by making bombing runs with JDAMs at high speed (Mach 0.8) and from 5000 ft AGL, with and without firing the laser before releasing the bomb.


Edited by *Aquila*
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13 hours ago, *Aquila* said:

That, for sure, is the question. I haven't bombed with the Hornet for a while and I'm far from home and my sim station. But one should get the answer to the question by making bombing runs with JDAMs at high speed (Mach 0.8) and from 5000 ft AGL, with and without firing the laser before releasing the bomb.

 

Here's the thing with the latest OB. When your JSOW's are set for TOO and you try to acquire the target with Tpod,  the weapon will not get elevation set. First, when you press TDC on a target (especially located at higher elevations), you will see a drift when you're not pointing directly at a target. Stabilize the lock in either area or point track. The elevation on your JSOW will show 0. Turn on the LTD/R and manually fire the laser briefly. The elevation on the JSOW page will show correctly. Pain in the a$$.

In one of my little tests, I settled in a wagon wheel at 25k, 20nm from target and try to transfer 4 FLIR targets into my 4 JSOWS. You can imagine the fun!  First point my HMD at target area and press TDC. > go to FLIR and refine the target. Lock it in point track and fire the laser briefly to get the elevation show up on JSOW page. > undesignate (might not be necessary, just in case) > Repeat the steps for 3 other targets located in the area. > setup QTY launch > point at the target and launch all 4.

A WPTDSG will mess it all up so drive the Tpod to the target area with TDC.  It worked, all 4 targets were hit, but I will not be using this for QTY launch anymore🤢.  One 'quick' TOO shot is fine.

 

Now, any other form of designating worked fine, PP or TOO from waypoints/markpoints worked fine.

 

EDIT:  Some correction after further tests.  The '0' altitude I was getting on JSOW page happens only when using HMD to to point the FLIR to a target.

          I also had other issues with HMD, it wouldn't clear the lock and sometimes gets stuck. Call me nuts but sometimes it seems like 'things' work differently every time I fly, lol.


Edited by Gripes323
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Just flew another mission transferring 4 targets from Tpod to JSOW in TOO and launching in QTY 4.  It took a while to ID and lock all 4 targets so by the time I was ready to launch the JSOWs, I was way too close but... no air defenses to worry about and I was at 30k feet.

The mech. went like this:  

Press 'WPTDSG' to point the Tpod to a waypoint located in the target area.

Slew to find the first target and designate.

On JSOW MSN page, step to another station. No need to undesignate before switching stations! 

Slew to another target and designate...  Repeat for all JSOWs.

After the last station received coordinates - UNDESIGNATE. (this also clears WPTDSG)

Once the JSOWs launched, I could WPTDSG my target area waypoint and set up the best view to see the hits.

Worked great!  I could swear though that couple of days ago it didn't work.  Probably was my fault. 

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