fixed [REPORTED] DGFT radar Bore sub mode

[ramjet77]

So after turning the HMCS off using the rotary knob forward of throttle I cannot now get a bore lock through HUD using TMS within the cross. So is there another switch I am missing to turn it off?

[Tom Kazansky]

for me it is obviuos that the line of sight of the HMCS is where the boresight mode works. even if it is not visible bc it is masked by the cockpit or HUD.

 

I testet with the HMCS's oval right at the left of the HUD. and then i just turned my view straight without changing the elevation of the view and i got boresight locks at the hight of the oval i.e. not at the point of the HUD's boresight cross but much lower.

 

so it is an "easy" fix to me: when ever the HMCS is not displayed, the HUD's cross should mark the boresight. not the HMCS. (EDIT: only if it is like that IRL)

 

EDIT2: that's it. the problem is that the oval (even after turning HMCS off) "is/stays" there invisible where you put it at the moment when turning off. If you look to the left and down, it will stay there, left and down. If you keep your view straight and zoom out completely to see the HMCS knob and turn it off, the oval stays in the center (in my case a lot lower, where the numbers "3" and "6" of the UFC are) and when targets are there and you engage boresight, you get a lock.

 

 

so my 2nd suggestion: bring the focus of boresight back to the HUD's cross after turning HMCS off.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Tom Kazansky

[ramjet77]

[Tom Kazansky]

Yes if the HMCS symbology is off then the Bore sight cross on HUD should be where to place the target. When you turn HMCS off now I get no lock through the HUD at all ������

 

 

yes. as i said, you have to know exactly where the oval was, as you turned HMCS off. there you will get a lock.

 

 

EDIT: more tests confirmed this: i tried a position far left of the hud right above the cockpit's edge, turned HMCS off without changing my view and got a lock by pressing boresight mode (TMS up) when the targets where right there.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Tom Kazansky

[ramjet77]

Yes agree Tom, trying it now and that is what’s happening. So to summarize:

 

Firstly DGFT No Radar mode does not work and automatically locks first target within HUD.

 

Secondly HMCS symbology when switched off continues to override HUD bore cross making a lock very difficult.

 

Question? Should HUD symbology over ride HMCS symbology when looking through it?? I would of thought so but............

[Tom Kazansky]

here is a track that shows it exactly.

 

looked left, turned HMCS on, locked ok, turned it off, still able to lock targets at the position where oval was last.

F-16C dogfight boresight issue 3.trk

Edited August 21, 2020 by Tom Kazansky

[Tom Kazansky]

...

 

Question? Should HUD symbology over ride HMCS symbology when looking through it?? I would of thought so but............

 

 

i hope so. if HUD did not override HMCS IRL, you could not lock a target by boresight mode if it is right in front of you.

[ramjet77]

Exactly

[Frederf]

It's an option "cockpit blanking" allowing you to have HMCS symbology all the time or blank it when it would overlap with the HUD. Head aiming still works during cockpit blanking you just don't get to see HMCS symbology. You will see the directed LOS move around on the HUD with head movement. You can think of HUD as an extension of HMCS display.

 

Obviously when HMCS is suspended or knob off then it is out of the loop and your head position shouldn't matter and things work just like before HMCS was installed.

[ramjet77]

Thanks for the info, what I would expect.

 

Hopefully we found the issue and development team can take a look and make adjustments as needed.

[Sacarino111]

Hi men.

Sorry, I must desagree.

I've been condicting tests, and I found that if HMCS is off (with the knob, not with DMS dwn), the cross is where the radar will look, independently of where the oval was at the moment of turning the HMCS off. If you just did DMS dwn to obscur the oval, then yes, the radar is still slaved to the oval and will try to lock at the oval's position.

Saludos

Saca111

[Tom Kazansky]

Hi men.

Sorry, I must desagree.

I've been condicting tests, and I found that if HMCS is off (with the knob, not with DMS dwn), the cross is where the radar will look, independently of where the oval was at the moment of turning the HMCS off. If you just did DMS dwn to obscur the oval, then yes, the radar is still slaved to the oval and will try to lock at the oval's position.

Saludos

Saca111

 

 

How do you explain my last track (no. 3) where i showed a "boresight" lock almost 45° left of HUD with HMCS off? I always turned off HMCS by knob.

[Sacarino111]

Again...

With HMCS on when looking trough the HUD, the oval is in front of you, more or less at same point where the cross is pointing, so no problem, radar will lock the same. Problems begin when you obscur the HMCS with the oval away from boresight, then the radar will attempt a lock at the oval. IF HMCS is on but obscured, at bore mode the radar will try to lock at oval's position, not at the cross, and it doesn't matters if the oval is visible or not, radar will follow it. Turn it off with the knob and then the cross will be again your aiming point.

Saludos.

Saca111

 

Edit 1

You're right!

the radar will try and lock at the last oval position. The reason why I was having different result is that I turned the HMCS off loocking forward, so the oval is pointing in the same directions the cross is...

So, a possible workaround is to turn the JMCS off looking to the HUD, and the boresight will work as "supposed". Keep in mind that if HMCS is ON but obscured, your looking position will be the radar lock.

Nice thread, I learned a lot, Thanks.

Bye

Saca111

Edited August 22, 2020 by Sacarino111
corrections

[Tom Kazansky]

Again...

With HMCS on when looking trough the HUD, the oval is in front of you, more or less at same point where the cross is pointing, so no problem, radar will lock the same. Problems begin when you obscur the HMCS with the oval away from boresight, then the radar will attempt a lock at the oval. IF HMCS is on but obscured, at bore mode the radar will try to lock at oval's position, not at the cross, and it doesn't matters if the oval is visible or not, radar will follow it. Turn it off with the knob and then the cross will be again your aiming point.

Saludos.

Saca111

 

 

This must have been fixed in the very last OB then. Here at stable DCS it locks where the oval was last as my track shows.

 

 

And where the oval should be when you center your view depends on view. Mine is where the numbers 3 and 6 of the UFC are and that does not help me with locking targets at the boresight cross of the HUD at all. So there are still those 2 issues in stable to fix.

[Sacarino111]

More on the topic.

Did some more trying and:

The above said is true but found what's next.

HMCS on, DGF on, put the oval over the right eyebrow of the plane, turned HMCS off.

TMS up and put the plane where the oval was and I get a lock where the oval was.

TMS DOWN!!! and the FCR enters "true" boresight mode, it will lock where the cross is. Another TMS DOWN and FCR enters vertical mode, as normal. If I press TMS UP I enter the "special" boresight mode, where the radar locks at the oval, not the cross.

So, to get the radar to be back on the cross, after a lock do TMS DOWN once, and then you'll get the cross to aim.

[ramjet77]

Will try this shortly, is this correct or even documented anywhere?

 

*Edit Sacarino111 Yes what you describe with TMS down does put the boresight cross to the primary means of aiming overriding the HMCS. I would welcome a devs comments on this to confirm whether this is intended and is the correct way of operating the DCS viper..........

Edited August 22, 2020 by ramjet77

[Tom Kazansky]

More on the topic.

Did some more trying and:

The above said is true but found what's next.

HMCS on, DGF on, put the oval over the right eyebrow of the plane, turned HMCS off.

TMS up and put the plane where the oval was and I get a lock where the oval was.

TMS DOWN!!! and the FCR enters "true" boresight mode, it will lock where the cross is. Another TMS DOWN and FCR enters vertical mode, as normal. If I press TMS UP I enter the "special" boresight mode, where the radar locks at the oval, not the cross.

So, to get the radar to be back on the cross, after a lock do TMS DOWN once, and then you'll get the cross to aim.

 

 

that's a lovely workaround. thank you! it works in stable too. now i have to get used to pressing:

 

2x TMS up

1x TMS down

 

and the boresight works with the cross in the HUD when i turned HMCS off after having it on before ... until it is fixed. i highly doubt this is the RL behaviour.

[ramjet77]

Are the issues and workarounds discussed in this thread recognized now as bugs by dev team ? Or does it stay as cannot reproduce and that’s it?

If more information is needed happy to try and provide it so we can get this corrected.

[BIGNEWY]

Hi all

 

I have reported this.

 

Please note sometimes it takes us time to get to every bug, we will change the title of a thread as we get new information and as we review them, but it can take some time as we are looking at many issues weekly over the whole forum.

 

Thanks for your patience.